cyccommute 

350htrr

You certainly must NOT pull on the lever when the disc is not there...

djb

first of all, yes they can be a pain putting a wheel in and there's rubbing, and you have to mess around getting the exact angle right. A rim wheel is easy.
took me a while to get better at disc wheel putting back.

and yes, wheel off can result in accidental lever push and pads moved out too much. Happened to me once when bike was in cardboard box for a flight.

djb

my personal experiences are very much in line with these comments.

Its all about assessing the braking power one has and moderating your speed for those conditions and how your braking is--but its like downhill or cross country skiing on downhills, you have to be aware of the surfaces of snow and ice to judge if you can stop properly in a given distance, so one has to constantly judge that, and have your speed according to what is safe for the conditions.

Just like driving a car in snow, no matter how much abs braking system or drift control or whatever you have on your car, it comes down to judging what traction you have for the given surface, and adjusting your speed to what you know you can safely stop in a given distance and or how much straight line traction you have if driving along on a straight road.

its the same with braking with bikes, doesnt matter what braking system you have, you have to have a feel , from experience, of how your brake system is going to work, how fast you will slow down, and control your speed accordingly.
Yes its easy just like skiing in that in just a few seconds, your speed can get too high on a descent, and yes disc systems on a loaded touring bike generally have more stopping power, but you still have to ride within the limits.

and as Ive brought up, you can have great strong disc brakes, but if you haul on the front too hard on a wet or dirty surface, and or with some lean angle, you can lock the front easier than with rim brakes generally, so you still have to have that feel of how much front braking you can do before traction loss--and again, most folks are afraid of the front brake and dont use it to its max--so we come back to the whole issue of "braking ability" by Mr or Mrs X rider and the huge variability of this factor.

boy, we do like blah blahing about this topic don't we? ;-)

Happy Feet

I have to agree. I haven't thought of braking as an issue since the days of cheap stamped calipers/steel rims on first gen mtb's. Even then, going down long hills in the mountains I just dragged my foot to slow down

Most brakes will work well enough. I put far more weight on paying attention to conditions and anticipating rather than reacting as stated above.

McBTC

Anyone worried about braking probably ought to think about riding something other than a 700c road bike with narrow tires or... my secret-- I could go 20 mph on the flats but try to keep it under 13 mph for safety reasons. Yeah... that's the ticket.

3speed

saddlesores

'lectronic brakes!!!! back in my day, the only 'lectronics on a bike was the bluetoof-enabled water bottles what reminded us it was time to pee!

350htrr

AND there you go... If you think that, you don't need hydraulic disk brakes... BUT, if you think that sometimes your brakes are "iffy" you's in need of a good set of hydraulic disc brakes and the "iffyn'ess" disappears...

Happy Feet

No it doesn't. You just need to htfu and stop letting unfounded anxiety guide your decision making.

Look, if you want to argue you like hydraulics, fine. No problem, fill yer boots. It's a lot like paint colour. However, if you want to argue you "need" them for touring because those other brakes aren't good enough I call B.S.

But the sentiment is not unique - many people who engage in outdoor pursuits are at times unsure of their abilities and seek an equipment solution as a buffer against that fear. The solution is not to encourage the irrational need for such gear but rather the acquisition of some skill.

In another recent thread someone suggested a Chris King headset and BB's were sort of a minimum for all season touring. Guess what, I call B.S. on that too.

There is a big difference between want and actual need.

chrisx

chrisx

350htrr

WOW, Dude... Relax and read what I said... I said, "IF you have no problems" with your rim brake set up, with "the way you ride", NO, you do NOT NEED disc brakes... IF you do find that the way you "want to ride" is being restricted because of to me a HUGE, actual difference, and past experiences with rim brakes in variable weather conditions I have gone through, THEN... GET a good quality hydraulic disc brake set up... HOW , is that, in anyway a "problem" for anyone...??? and.. It has zero/nothing/nada, to do with me, and how I feel, per say, it has everything to do with the "differences" with rim or disk and how "efficient" they are...

As far as NEED, no I do NOT need disc brakes, nobody NEEDS hydraulic disc brakes per say, but, I would say, all anybody would NEED to do, is change the way they want to ride, so all they "need" to do Is ride differently, or MUST even, ride differently, and "problem solved" rime brake are good enough...

I have rode rim brake bicycles for like 20+ years and I did not realise how bad/POS they were until I got my last bike with hydraulic disks and... I entered a different world, of constant, predictable, braking distances, in ALL kinds of weather/conditions... Yes, born again would describe my attitude between rim or hydraulic brakes... BUT, I also believe if you do not think you need one you do not, probably because of the way you ride, where you ride, the conditions where you ride...

Happy Feet

Yes, I get it. You ride an E bike now and need hydraulic brakes. Just like the thread where you claimed bicycle tourers needed really powerful solar chargers because, well in your case at least, it also included charging the actual E bike.

So I will rephrase: For traditional bicycle touring that does not include technical downhill mountain biking or motorized vehicles, there is no unique "need" for hydraulic disc brakes. The activity simply does not require that degree of sophistication. Yes, they are an option, but not a need. I would challenge someone to describe the type of touring, outside the two examples in the last sentence, that requires them or rather, suggests calipers, cantis or mechanical discs are not good enough.

linus

To OP.

Just get disc brakes. Especially, hydraulic disc brakes. It's better in every way.

Good luck.

Happy Feet

The faulty logic that sometimes occurs here is that someone, who has ridden bikes for a long time, finally builds their "dream" bike with all the fixuns: CK headsets, PW hubs, custom frame, hand built wheelsets, dynohubs, rohlhoff igh or campy groupset... and then talks about how they would never ride on anything less after that. Sure, great in itself. But if someone had told them at the start that they shouldn't choose a bike unless it had those things they would never have set foot on a tour to begin with.

Good stuff is good but in my mind nothing happens in isolation. What does the rest of the bike look like? Carpy but with excellent hydraulic disc brakes? How much does all that cost? What about panniers, tents, sleeping bags, clothing, cook gear... suggesting the best just because it's the best loses it's logic when you extrapolate it outwards to the whole activity and begin to see the cost of it all. Now add some drivel about how dangerous the other options are and it's a perfect way to talk someone out of ever trying what is a pretty low entry, safe pastime for the vast majority of users.

350htrr

As far as the E-Bike thing, why, YES, I do believe I did say that one NEEDS to carry a powerful solar panel... Why would I say that,? because you NEED to charge the battery every day, or you go nowhere with the E-Bike the next day, (unless you find a current bush to plug it in somewhere)... Does that mean every tourer NEEDS to carry a powerful solar panel..??? NO, it does NOT, and I never said that... I do not know if you are trying to be obtuse , or if I am just failing to get my point across.. BUT...

MY point is "trying to be" here is "if" you are finding rim brake's "iffy", go to quality hydraulic discs, you would not be going wrong...

Happy Feet

Who's trying to be obtuse. The problem with the internet is the data is right there.

Here's the thread : https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1...hargers-2.html

You begin arguing about the need for high output solar panels in post 11 and it's not until post 47 that you reveal you need that much power to charge your e bike. Yep, just like most other bicycle tourists.

As to your assertion: "if" you are finding rim brake's "iffy", go to quality hydraulic discs, you would not be going wrong. I would say, "Invest in learning how to adjust your current brakes properly first." You could not go wrong and would probably save a bunch of money in the process. It's a skills thing that will carry from bike to bike for the rest of your life.

linus

Moderator, please kick these people out. These people are hijacking the thread with their gibberish.

Happy Feet

Seems I've addressed brakes intelligently in every post I've made so far. Pardon me for suggesting thinking about real needs instead of suggesting the most expensive solution as a default.

I will admit that the solar discussion is a detour but it illustrates how someone can suggest a need for a solution based on something outside the activity at hand. In the touring section we talk about touring yet many of the suggestions about hydraulic brakes are coming from downhill technical mtb use, as another example.

3speed

Happy Feet

No I did not. I own a bike with disc brakes.

I said there is a difference between needing and wanting. The OP wants to do a simple tour and asked about disc brakes. Now it seems Hydraulic disc brakes are required for "safety" sake. I disagree.
My position is that rim or disc will suffice. Even HDiscs if money is no object - why not.
If you want HD that's fine. But to say you need HD for simple touring safely I think that's a worry not founded in reality.
That is all.

cb400bill

Thread closed.