m56ewt

My wife and I own two Trek hybrid bikes that we ride often. We are about to embark on a trip to Denmark where we plan to bike from There to Germany and eventually ending up in London. We want to purchase folding bikes which may end up replacing our hybrids. Our budget is about $2000 each, but we don’t want to spend just to spend.

We have tried the Brampton's because of the small folding size and didn’t like it at all. We also briefly tried the Dahon Mariner D8 which most research is pointing us to. Is there something better out there that I am missing or should we just go with the Mariner? We want a bike that can travel in multiple surfaces. We would love to be able to put some type of bag/storage on the front, rather then the rear.

grayrest

What specifically did you not like about the Brompton? The upright ride? The small wheels? Within their niche, Bromptons ride fairly well so knowing what you didn't like helps narrow down options.

If you're just looking for stuff to research, here's roughly your options:

• Bike Friday - Small wheeled steel bikes. I believe they usually use 406mm wheels (like the Dahon). Compared to Brompton they're a larger fold, standard components, and built to order.
• Changebike DF-702 - Full size road oriented bike, folding rear triangle
• Montague - A variety of full size folding bikes
• Riese & Mueller Birdy - similar wheel size to a Brompton, stiffer, sportier body position, full suspension, larger fold
• Tern Verge - 451mm wheels. I didn't buy one but the one I rode was fairly nice.

The two other folding bike companies in your price range that I know of are Tyrell and Ori but I don't know much about them. There's also the option of getting a frame that breaks down for travel. I haven't really looked into that myself and the ones I've seen have been fairly high end custom builds.

m56ewt

The Brompton’s are amazingly constructed and we loved the storage options, but neither one of us liked the handlebar configurations (S was to low, and M and H were to close together.) it just felt like every bump we hit was huge. When we test drive the Dehan, we liked the 20inch wheel and it kind of felt like we were on our hybrids. We would like to use the bikes on the road, dirt and gravel paths and in campgrounds, so we are looking for a hybrid type tire. If there is something with better components and a reliable build for we are all in. We would like to put on a plane occasionally, so the 20inch wheel is very attractive to us.

linberl

Call Bike Friday and they will connect you with a local owner so you can test ride. I went from a Trek 720 to a BF 20" New World Tourist, and after a few days to adjust to the quicker steering, I loved it. Ended up selling my 2 Treks and I've only had folders since. Eventually went from my 20" BF to their 16" because I was using it for lots of multimodal trips, but sounds like you just need a bike that folds well for travel. That's a BF, designed first for the ride quality, then to fold for trips. You can spec out any components you want (which will determine weight and price, of course); all components are standard, not proprietary, so very easy to repair and replace while traveling if needed as is a steel frame to weld. Their Pocket Llama takes a pretty wide tire so good for off road and cushy. The bikes are fitted to your measurements - that's what pushed me to BF over Brompton as I could not properly fit the Brompton without a LOT of aftermarket modifications (which might not have worked). Brompton has limited adjustments which fit "most" people - BF has infinite adjustments which are custom fit. You can use any handlebar on a BF that you want - they will even cut and separate it into two halves for you for easy folding. Call them and talk and take a test ride. I think you will love them, I know I do. And they're made in Oregon, so USA made and no sales tax.

BromptonINrio

i would give a call in dahons 16" like curve d8.
it have 8speed ign, schwalbe big aplle, and supports for mannier and front luggage.

blakcloud

I have to agree with linberl, it sounds like Bike Friday is a worthy contender. It fits your criteria and they make great bikes. Good luck with what ever decision you come up with.

3speedslow

The Dahon are well made bikes with many model options. You will be able to find what you need with them and save yourself a lot of coin.

They have been in the business of folding bikes for over 35 years.

linberl

I have a Dahon (Mu Uno) and a Bike Friday. Dahon makes a very nice bike...but...it has the same issues as Brompton in terms of a single frame size. The radius stem post (and even the adjustable ones) require aftermarket parts like Aber Hallos to correct the reach for some people. And the Dahons are quite a bit heavier than the BF bikes. The Dahon speed p8, for example, is 4-5 lbs heavier than a typical BF 8 speed. Makes no difference riding but if you are lugging it around in or out of a suitcase, weight matters. Also, if you go with Dahon, avoid the NEOS derailleur and go with more standard parts. Since you've got the $, I suggest checking out one of these: https://www.bikefriday.com/folding-b...a-folding-bike There are BF's on the road still being ridden after 20 years of ownership!!!

fietsbob

Bike Friday uniquely is the only one that builds the bike for the customer,

rather than the customer shopping for the bike the company has made..

with the dropping of their fast folding Tikit , their bikes are a mix of fold some take it apart some..

they do have a couple like the Osata a fleet bike which is adjustable.. in frame length .. as well as bar & saddle mast heights base price $900

they may have some of those built ahead for short notice purchase, the rest need build time
as they build to your size & component preferences.. color and so forth ...




contact:
3364 W. 11th Avenue Eugene, OR 97402 1-800-777-0258 USA 1-541-687-0487 INTL

Here is My BiFri







...

m56ewt

Thanks everyone for all your comments. I know that Dahon makes a good bike, but I really do like the idea of a lighter bike for my wife as we will be folding and taking with us in Europe rather then locking up.

m56ewt

We do everything from leisure riding to traveling approximately 30 to 35 miles a day while we will be in Europe. We would eventually like to get rid of the two Trek hybrid bikes that we have an use these as our every day bicycle.

mlau

If you read the posts, pretty much Bike Friday is recommended.

At the $1000-2000 range, it's extremely hard to beat bike Friday on ride quality.

It's like a bespoke suit... instead of squeezing into one-size-fits-all.


As for Dahon, I see it as the Ford of bikes. Inexpensive. Consistent. Surprisingly decent. Different models available.

If you're in America and want a Dahon, I highly recommend buying from Thor.

berlinonaut

To manage expectations: You probably won't do that with Bike Fridays. The only bike I know of where this is an realistic option is the Brompton. At least in day to day business. I own a bunch of different folders and to be able to take them with you instead of locking they are all too big in folded state, too heavy, too uncomfortable to carry, too messy to fold (takes too long), too bad as a package (loose parts, oily and dirty parts on the outside) and more stuff like that. I am talking about restaurants, shops, supermarkets, etc. - things like taking them to the hotel room over night is a different story. And do not forget that at the same time you've also to handle the luggage that you are carrying with you in these situations.

berlinonaut

The height difference between S and M is 10cm, the height difference between M and H is 6cm (which is a whole world). What would you prefer? higher than S but lower than M or higher than H? There's the P-model which looks a bit awkward but is a good choice in terms of bars when it comes to touring due to it's multiple hand positions. And you can also exchange the Brompton's bars for something different if you require a specific height or width.



In general I think that pretty much outrules the Brompton. But: coming from big wheeled bikes small wheeled ones like the 16" Brompton take a little bit getting used to. Doesn't take long but longer than the normal test ride and clearly more than a 20" bike. So it might be that your judgement comes to early. People have been touring with the Brompton over and over. It is not only possible but fun and it has clear advantages when it comes to multimodal transport or quick storage in tiny spaces. However: For dirt and gravel paths there are better bikes out there. Every folder is a compromise and the hard bit is to find the right compromise for your needs. Mainly you have to decide between better, smaller and easier folding vs. better and more normal ride. As others have said for travelling Bike Fridays are very decent bikes. To fold them fully up for transport is however a take-apart job. If you have to do this just once (at the airport) that's no big issue (and on a daily basis you probably will neither want nor need the smallest size possible). But you can pretty much forget the idea of taking the bike with you instead of locking up, the more if you are using the BF-trailer system.

You did not mention which country you are living in or you want to buy the bikes - within the US Bike Friday seems to be hard to beat in terms of value for money for your purposes. If you want to buy the bikes in Europe you'll face vastly higher prices for them, so alternatives may be more attractive (that again may be less of interest in the US due to availability and pricing). Within your given budget (assuming it would be for the bike alone) there are many alternatives available. These will vanish quickly when flying with the bike comfortably is of relevance due to weight and the possibility to pack the bike up comfortably. And then there's the sweet spot between fold and ride, that you have to decide on, more technical things like space for luggage or available gearing and the bike has to fit both of you sizewise and - not the last - has to please you optically. I.e. the Airnimal Joey may or may not be a valid candidate - very good ride, packs up well for travel, within your pricerange and ridewise possibly not far from what you are used to. Just as one example.

berlinonaut

This does not get more correct if you repeat it more often. In other words: This ist still as wrong as it can get and you should know it as it has already been mentioned several times.

Barchettaman

I’d consider a Tern Node if you can test one.

I’m a fan of folders with bigger wheels. The Node has 24” rims.

My folder is a Dahon Espresso, 26” rims, rides pretty much like a normal hybrid, only faster and with a bit of creaking from the hinge.

Downside is that it doesn’t fold very small - not an issue for me, however.

berlinonaut

As I understood the OP wants to fly with the bikes - I do not think the Espresso or the Node are well suited for that intend.

m56ewt

The only luggage we will have is a backpack. We are used to getting food to go and eating outside as we have two dogs that usually travel with us, but will not be on this trip. We just want the option to bring in if the weather is bad. We will definitely have a bag to put it in if we do bring indoors.

marfar

HI berlinonaut,

Your reply hits a lot of points that we (I'm the wife going on the trip) have been discussing. I do think we need to give the Brompton more of a chance, and I am curious about the P-model. We saw one but only tried the other options.

Having said that, I'm wondering if you (or others here) might be able to guide us based on the infrastructure of the places we will be visiting. We will go from Copenhagen - Hamburg - Amsterdam - Brussels - London. Given the amazing infrastructure of Berlin (biked there for a week last year), I'm assuming most of the points between these places will be amazingly bike-pathed as well? If this is the case, I think we need to spend a bit more time feeling out the Brompton because we will be folding it for our Airbnbs and for the buses or trains if we choose to explore by one of those.

Thank you all for your help with this. We will most likely be buying the bikes in the U.S., but we are open to working with someone in Denmark as well.

icedmocha 

I thought the BF pakit and the Brompton are about the same size? And the Pakit is supposed to ride better for days at a time.

fietsbob

berlinonaut, list the alternative frame lengths ie, distance between seat post and head tube centers..available from other companies..

linberl

If one intends to fold frequently then the BF pakiT is definitely a better choice than the 20" models. But the OP mentioned wanting to use the bikes as "hybrids" after their trip - on gravel and off road. Personally, I would not consider a 16" wheel bike suitable for this, neither pakiT or Brompton. You can "make do" with them in a pinch, but it's not desirable. If this is a major factor, stick with 20" wheels and check out the Pocket Llama, which would work for your trips and at home.

As to traveling and folding a lot with a bike, the pakiT can be configured with 8 speeds and a weight of sub 19 lbs with optional titanium seat mast and stem. The Brompton can be configured with a max of 6 speeds and the weight is 26.6lbs. The Brompton can be rolled folded on those tiny wheels (not great on cobblestones and you still have to carry up steps); the pakiT can be rolled on its front wheel. The pakiT quick folds narrower but longer than the Brompton; folding time is the same (although I do beat my friend with a brompton but i am fast at it now and she is slow). You can make the pakiT even smaller when folding by removing the front wheel but I have never found a need to do that, not in restaurants, doctor offices, theaters, etc. The fold is small enough. If OP thinks a 16" wheel would work, then I encourage test riding both the Brompton again and a Bike Friday pakiT, keeping in mind that the fold is something you are engaged with a few minutes a day while the ride is something you spend hours doing. Get the one that fits the best and rides the best - for you.

linberl

The pakiT comes custom sized. There are 3 different frame lengths, compared to Brompton's single frame length. Then BF customizes the remaining dimensions to your specifications (either from another bike you love or your physical dimensions). Seat mast, stem mast, stem, bars, are all sized to fit you. This, along with a properly sized frame, makes a good fitting bike regardless of your dimensions. Brompton has one size frame and 4 handlebar types which - to some extent - change the reach and height. These adjustments are not infinite and, while they fit the majority of people, do not fit everyone. As someone with more leg than trunk and short arms I found it impossible to get comfortable on a Brompton with any of the 4 bars; Brompton's solution was to move the seat very far forward but that put my knees in a poor position relative to the pedals. It might have worked with some aftermarket part modification (there certainly are plenty) but I personally couldn't see paying 2 grand for a bike that didn't fit and then hoping aftermarket stuff would fix it. If you are in the 90% of folks the Brompton fits and you like the ride position (which was too upright for me and the S bar was way too much reach) it's a very cute bike.

tcs

I tried making a Venn diagram of your wish list: off pavement, international touring, ~35 miles a day, lightweight, fold & carry, suitcase-able, adjustable handlebars, hybrid tires, front luggage, $2000 budget.



Anyway, I've hesitated to mention some bikes because it often sets off a %@#*& storm when someone does, but there's also the Dahon EEZZ D3, a lightweight, tiny fold (drops right into a fight suitcase) offering, and the Dahon Curl i8 which has an infinitely adjustable handlebar, folds smaller than the Brompton and has wider range Shimano 8-speed gearing.

tcs

I thought the pakit and the tikit folded (or in the case of the pakit, disassembled) to about the same size?