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Rear dropout wear; "alignment" concerns

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Rear dropout wear; "alignment" concerns

Old 07-24-14, 11:32 PM
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divide_by_0
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Rear dropout wear; "alignment" concerns

I recently noticed the rear tire wont sit straight in my Rocky Mountain Prestige. Its not so far out as to cause functional problems, but bothers me nonetheless. I flipped the wheel to ensure it wasnt a dish issue; it isnt.

I probably have a 1/8 inch difference between the clearnace on the chain stays and a similar difference on the seat stays.

the bike is a 2009 with about 5000 miles on it. Its been a great ride so far; I want to keep it going if possible.

2 questions if I may:

1. What would cause this? Surely not my consistent 800W output !

2. Can it be fixed or is the frame nearing its end of useful life?
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Old 07-24-14, 11:47 PM
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could just be bent rear triangle. i wish mine was only 1/8 out of true.
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Old 07-25-14, 12:14 AM
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true, but it wasnt always this way... sadly, I am a bit of a freak for details and am certain I would have noticed when I took delivery. I havent ever crashed (this bike), so cant imagine what would do that.

there is a fair amount of "play" in the dropouts. I have been reading a bit and worry that my "ultralight" aftermarket titanium skewers have been letting the wheel slip around a bit, causing wear.

I can live with it; its perfectly functional, but, as I mentioned... I am a bit of a freak.
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Old 07-25-14, 12:43 AM
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The wheel sits more to the left or right in the frame ?
What do you mean by "play" in the dropouts ? "play" is used to describe some loose & wiggling around, as if a bolt or joint has come loose.
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Old 07-25-14, 12:48 AM
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When upright, the wheel sits left (non-drive side). Meaning my wheel is closer to the left brake pad.

By "play," I mean with the quick release open, I can wiggle the wheel in the dropouts.

I have aver already cut a bad inner-tube to fit and "shimmed" the axle to get better alignment, but the rubber seems to compress.

I am considering shimming with aluminum, but I am surprised at how little experience I am finding on this. I had expected to find a manufactured solution, but most are suggesting "bondo," or similar. Since it's not a common problem, it worries me.
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Old 07-25-14, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by divide_by_0
When upright, the wheel sits left (non-drive side). Meaning my wheel is closer to the left brake pad.

By "play," I mean with the quick release open, I can wiggle the wheel in the dropouts.

I have aver already cut a bad inner-tube to fit and "shimmed" the axle to get better alignment, but the rubber seems to compress.

I am considering shimming with aluminum, but I am surprised at how little experience I am finding on this. I had expected to find a manufactured solution, but most are suggesting "bondo," or similar. Since it's not a common problem, it worries me.
I have a similar situation with my Guru steel road bike. Not quite as severe as yours but enough to make 700xc25 tires very close fitting. My LBS owner said there was some sort of aluminum spray that hardens and builds up the drop out. Is that what you're talking about? The solution that he suggested and I chose was just to run 700x23s.
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Old 07-25-14, 01:16 AM
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Rear triangle could be offset a bit to the left, or the dropout alignment could be off a bit. If there were no crashes or damage, then it was that way originally.

If you have some wiggle room in the dropout, how closely can you center the wheel ?
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Old 07-25-14, 01:25 AM
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Running x23's now... Bike actually came with x25's and I don't recall noticing the offset..

I really think hunk it's my incredible leg muscles gradually bending the carbon fiber frame... No?

I will check on "aluminum spray."

I can exactly center the wheel, but as you would expect, a quick-release won't hold it for long.

I agree.. No crashes implies it was always this way, but I a surprised that I would miss such a detail (especially when the original build had wider tires).
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Old 07-25-14, 06:08 AM
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It's a carbon frame. Carbon doesn't bend or change shape. The shape it is now is the shape it was when new.

Don't shim your drop-outs. That is a recipe for disaster. If your wheel has play when the QR is OPEN, so what.

Tighten the QR and go for a ride. There is nothing to be done. It is an alignment issue that has always been there.
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Old 07-25-14, 10:39 AM
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I have a similar issue on my '94 Cannondale 2.8. LBS owner told me this wasn't particularly uncommon in bikes of this age and doesn't necessarily indicate anything's wrong and it, indeed, may have come from the factory like that. He said the simplest thing to do is align the wheel properly (one side is not going to be completely 'seated' in the dropout) and tighten the QR. This is what I've done and it's been a perfect solution (for the record, I'm 215 lbs and sometimes go over bumps and railroad tracks and so on and, after a few hundred miles on that bike, I have yet to have the wheel slip out of position while riding.)

If your QR isn't able to get tight enough to implement this solution, maybe you need another QR?

But, FWIW, I'm with you on the OCD thing and I wish I could fill in my left dropout a bit to get it all aligned without having to do this little 'trick'. In the mean time... It's what I do.
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Old 07-25-14, 10:54 AM
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I'm betting a bearing preload issue with your rear wheel
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Old 07-25-14, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by divide_by_0

I can exactly center the wheel, but as you would expect, a quick-release won't hold it for long.
Ummm, sounds like your QR is not tight if the wheel is shifting. Are you using a wimpy open cam skewer ?
Or are your arms wimpy ?
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Old 07-25-14, 12:03 PM
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I have an old Trek which has little adjusters in the dropouts to help with this. I don't think there is anything sacrosanct that says you have to have the axle seated on both sides. If your QR won't hold the wheel axle fixed with just clamping pressure, you've either got a bad QR or you aren't tightening them sufficiently. There shouldn't be movement in the axle with just clamping pressure and there shouldn't be any "wear" in this area.

The problem is that you really don't know if centering the wheel between the chain stays (or seat stays) is helping or hurting the issue. Is the problem in the basic frame geometry or in the dropout alignment? I'd certainly check to see if you get an improvement in centering with both the seat stays and the chain stays which would be a weak indicator that your problem is in the dropout alignment.

There are various frame alignment check procedures on the net, but I've never tried them.

I'd either live with it, or just make it part of your rear wheel mounting procedure to do the alignment manually. If you really think you get better overall frame alignment with the axle not completely seated on one side, then I'd look into some kind of shim. Perhaps JBWeld might work also. You could also look into carefully filing down the dropout slot on one side - either shimming one side out or filing the other side in should do the same basic thing. But again, I'd want to be sure that you're actually improving overall alignment and not just making it look better cosmetically. And as someone else said, you really want to be sure you're not reacting to a wheel dish issue or a bearing setup issue.

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Old 07-25-14, 04:49 PM
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The QR doesn't hold very well... It's a lightweight titanium skewer (the pair weigh about 46 grams). I am going to try the Easton skewer tonight and see if it holds better.
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Old 07-25-14, 04:59 PM
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A rear wheel that pulls to the left with power applied to the crank signals either a slippery horizontal dropout (which you don't have) or crappy skewer (like I also use) or both. If you can center the wheel between the stays with vertical dropouts, but it shifts, it is not the frame's fault.
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Old 04-06-16, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
A rear wheel that pulls to the left with power applied to the crank signals either a slippery horizontal dropout (which you don't have) or crappy skewer (like I also use) or both. If you can center the wheel between the stays with vertical dropouts, but it shifts, it is not the frame's fault.
I have the same problem, I have tried different skewers, under a lot stress the wheels slips left and rubs against the frame. I believe that the dropout is worn, I don't know if aligning the dropout will help. It's a carbon bike. A mechanic told me the frame is crooked. I am going to work with my LBS and see what Cervelo thinks.
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Old 04-06-16, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by goenrdoug
I have a similar issue on my '94 Cannondale 2.8. LBS owner told me this wasn't particularly uncommon in bikes of this age and doesn't necessarily indicate anything's wrong and it, indeed, may have come from the factory like that. He said the simplest thing to do is align the wheel properly (one side is not going to be completely 'seated' in the dropout) and tighten the QR. This is what I've done and it's been a perfect solution (for the record, I'm 215 lbs and sometimes go over bumps and railroad tracks and so on and, after a few hundred miles on that bike, I have yet to have the wheel slip out of position while riding.)

If your QR isn't able to get tight enough to implement this solution, maybe you need another QR?

But, FWIW, I'm with you on the OCD thing and I wish I could fill in my left dropout a bit to get it all aligned without having to do this little 'trick'. In the mean time... It's what I do.
I agree, I've seen quite a few bikes with the alignment not being dead on. You just tighten the QR skewer and ride. I've never seen an axle move out of center once tightened properly (steel frame bikes). Like the others, I'm thinking the ultralight skewers you're using aren't up to the task.
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Old 04-07-16, 03:58 AM
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Not sure about carbon, but on my alloy framed Masi I just filed one of the dropouts very lightly until the wheel sat centered. Obviously after ruling out wheel truing issues.
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Old 09-19-20, 06:52 PM
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Rear Wheel Alignment

Originally Posted by divide_by_0
The QR doesn't hold very well... It's a lightweight titanium skewer (the pair weigh about 46 grams). I am going to try the Easton skewer tonight and see if it holds better.
I'm studying the thread because I also have an issue with rear wheel alignment; I've been doing the hold to center and tighten method for some time with limited success.

Trying to stick something to shim in there with a tube is, I think going to be problematic, but the guy who suggested filing back one of the dropouts is on to something. Ever heard of a rat-tail file; that's the tool for the job.
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Old 09-19-20, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by thagood
I'm studying the thread because I also have an issue with rear wheel alignment; I've been doing the hold to center and tighten method for some time with limited success.

Trying to stick something to shim in there with a tube is, I think going to be problematic, but the guy who suggested filing back one of the dropouts is on to something. Ever heard of a rat-tail file; that's the tool for the job.
Zombie thread alert!

Maybe start a new thread about this in the mechanic's forum, or framebuilder's forum(but not both)
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