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Why the Love affair with full squish?

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Why the Love affair with full squish?

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Old 03-12-19, 05:15 AM
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Rajflyboy
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Why the Love affair with full squish?

Why the need for full squish full suspension bikes? Is it that much better than a Hardtail? Are you increasing your skill level with suspension? Do you need to ride rough rocky MTB trails? Do you need to spend the extra money on a bike like this?

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Old 03-12-19, 06:46 AM
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If you are fit and in good condition, no, you don't need it, but it is still nice. The older you get, or the more back, knee, joint issues you have the less it is a luxury, and the more necessary it becomes to be able to enjoy. Whether it is worth the extra money is a personal decision. For me, with lots of shaky joints from years of basketball and motocross, I have a 120mm full squish bike just for gravel and pavement, and ride a 160mm FS for single track. I don't feel as beat up after riding as I did with a rigid. (never had a HT, went from rigid to FS, and not going back)
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Old 03-12-19, 07:18 AM
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On rocky rooty trails your tires stay glued to the trail instead of the bike getting bounced around and losing traction.

On a long ride your body doesn't feel beat up at the end of the day.

Full suspension is a no brainer.
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Old 03-12-19, 07:45 AM
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Kapusta
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Originally Posted by Rajflyboy View Post
Why the need for full squish full suspension bikes? Is it that much better than a Hardtail? Are you increasing your skill level with suspension? Do you need to ride rough rocky MTB trails? Do you need to spend the extra money on a bike like this?
Why the need for a suspension fork? Is it that much better than a rigid fork? Are you increasing your skill level with suspension? Do you need to ride rough rocky MTB trails? Do you need to spend the extra money on a bike like this?

The answer to your questions and the above are essentially the same.
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Old 03-12-19, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Why the need for a suspension fork? Is it that much better than a rigid fork? Are you increasing your skill level with suspension? Do you need to ride rough rocky MTB trails? Do you need to spend the extra money on a bike like this?

The answer to your questions and the above are essentially the same.
you know whats weird is lately I've been seeing more people ride cross and gravel bikes with rigid forks and drop bars lately. after riding a rigid fork for a year I wouldn't go back. Mine is a cheap coil fork and its tons better than where I started.

to original poster;
I ride with a guy who rides full suspension its just smoother on drops rocky climbs etc. It changes the experience totally. Its not really needed but nice to have if you can get one. I'll stick to my hard tail for now but one day I'd probably get one.
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Old 03-12-19, 02:47 PM
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Because I can. I have a hardtail, a rigid, and a full suspension. Guess which one I ride pretty much all the time. Not only is it a full suspension it has 140mm of travel and I'm riding all the same crap on it I can ride with my rigid. The great thing these days is there really isn't any downside to a good full suspension frame and having that extra travel other than $$$$ and even there I scored an insane deal. My 140mm FS doesn't pedal bob and climbs 95%+ as well as any short travel HT and my rigid I've had.

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Old 03-12-19, 04:07 PM
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I love my one and only full sus. Even though I own a dozen or so rigid and hardtails, this is my go-to bike. It's old (2011), but it was free and am happy with the 120mm Fox 32.
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Old 03-13-19, 07:53 PM
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I've had several full suspension bikes and just can't love them. I'm currently building a 29"/27.5+ titanium hardtail.
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Old 03-14-19, 08:50 AM
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"Can" is very different than "Is it as capable" than "is it worth it"

Trails I ride, I CAN ride a hardtrail but likely won't. Too rough, and creates some limiting factors. In my younger years, I rode a hard tail everywhere. Definitely limited my speed vs a fully but didn't limit where I could ride. Although I should note, I have 160mm fork.

Now outside of the flatter areas of the continent and pump dj parks, I ride a fully exclusively.
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Old 03-14-19, 05:49 PM
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I sold my FS bike because I wanted to use my MTB for some utility purposes as well, and FS usually have no provisions for racks or trailers or bags. I miss it, though. It was great. I think short-link (DW-link, Santa Cruz, Ibis, Yeti, DB, Giant, et al) is the way to go.
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Old 03-14-19, 06:32 PM
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Do you drive a car without shocks and springs or struts ?

Same reason for FS bikes. They hold traction better in all situations.

Some places a FS is overkill as conditions aren’t severe enough to warrant the trade off of increased weight and percieved loss of power to the rear suspension. I just went to a new HT as for the majority of my trail rides an HT works really well. Introduce rocks, steep descents and drops and the situation changes and a FS is a better choice.
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Old 03-15-19, 10:41 AM
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^^ That's not really true any more, IME. Suspension design now is really good at controlling both brake dive and pedal bob. I had an easier time going up a steep section with a FS than I do with my similar sized and quality HT. The HT is still trying to either spin out or loop and it's a fine balance, with the FS you can just sit and crank. And if the suspension anti-squat is well balanced you will never notice any pedal bob.

There are a few now that are trying the approach of using pedaling forces to top out the suspension while wheel forces can break the top-out and put the suspension back to work if you ride over a big obstacle.

With rear suspension linkages so well developed some prominent designers and companies are turning to the front, looking at linkage forks or wishbonees similar to BMW's Duolever. It's exciting but still not cheap enough for me to buy.
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Old 03-15-19, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
There are a few now that are trying the approach of using pedaling forces to top out the suspension while wheel forces can break the top-out and put the suspension back to work if you ride over a big obstacle.
.
Giant tried that in the early 2000s with their NRS designs. They sucked (not surprisingly) and Giant wisely dropped the design.

Who is trying this now?
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Old 03-15-19, 10:55 AM
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If your impression of full suspension was formed by riding bikes a decade or more ago, I'd try a good one now -- it's a whole different deal. I've got a Trek Fuel EX, and the rear suspension just disappears. I don't notice until it's saving me up a bumpy climb, bad landing, sketchy descent, etc. It keeps the rear wheel planted and lets me do a lot I wouldn't manage on a hardtail. Better mountain bikers I'm sure could do everything I can do no sweat on a hardtail, but coming from a road background, I think they're really nice.
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Old 03-15-19, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ljsense View Post
If your impression of full suspension was formed by riding bikes a decade or more ago, I'd try a good one now -- it's a whole different deal. .
(nobody tell him that Specialized is still using a Horst link (as they have for decades), DW link bikes have been around for more than a decade, etc. etc.)
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Old 03-15-19, 01:58 PM
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My 2017 Intense uses the Santa Cruz VPP system that has been around since 2001 but I'm pretty sure mine is a little better refined. Shocks have also improved.
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Old 03-15-19, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Giant tried that in the early 2000s with their NRS designs. They sucked (not surprisingly) and Giant wisely dropped the design.

Who is trying this now?
Tantrum, specifically. The guy's Kickstarter bikes have mostly had rave reviews and he's working on getting a larger production run for 2019. He's an old-timer in the suspension world (started in racing cars in the 70's) and seems to know what he's on about. In the 90's he was making long-travel forks and disk brake conversions for non-disk frames (Brake Therapy) and in the 2000's he designed the Magic Link suspension for Kona.
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Old 03-15-19, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
Tantrum, specifically. The guy's Kickstarter bikes have mostly had rave reviews and he's working on getting a larger production run for 2019. He's an old-timer in the suspension world (started in racing cars in the 70's) and seems to know what he's on about. In the 90's he was making long-travel forks and disk brake conversions for non-disk frames (Brake Therapy) and in the 2000's he designed the Magic Link suspension for Kona.
Iíve seen that. Looks interesting.

The way you described it in the post I responded to is not the way I understand Tantrumís system to work.

As I underdand it, his system is an evolution of (or simply better execution of) Konaís Magic Link.

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Old 03-15-19, 08:39 PM
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Well I can only describe it the way he describes it, I haven't tried it. I'm just interested in it. With my heart condition I'm probably not strong enough to make it work for me.
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Old 03-15-19, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
Well I can only describe it the way he describes it, I haven't tried it. I'm just interested in it. With my heart condition I'm probably not strong enough to make it work for me.
I actually though of ordering one at one point.

What do you mean you are not strong enough? To mtb in general or is there something about the Tantrum bike in particular? Either way, sorry to hear you have a heart condition.
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Old 03-15-19, 10:52 PM
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Thanks. I have an enlarged heart and the enlargement interferes with the flow path between mitral and aortic valve. I was limited to something slightly over 100W. So I can grind up a hill in granny gear but not with much force. I'm currently recovering from a surgery to somewhat correct it, but I'll probably still never be up for serious fitness. But still I'm an engineer and enjoy seeing innovative stuff.
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Old 03-17-19, 01:46 PM
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UCI World Championship XC races , in Switzerland, last year, were all on 29er dual suspension bikes ..
going to try to compete with the front runners ?
need the premium stuff.. to keep the lap times low..
But by that time you get to that paid, to race level, the bikes are supplied.. ...





..
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Old 03-17-19, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Rajflyboy View Post
Why the need for full squish full suspension bikes? Is it that much better than a Hardtail? Are you increasing your skill level with suspension? Do you need to ride rough rocky MTB trails? Do you need to spend the extra money on a bike like this?

Need to ride rough trails? Ever pedaled in MA or New England. We specialize in rocks. Really. N+1.
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Old 03-17-19, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ljsense View Post
If your impression of full suspension was formed by riding bikes a decade or more ago, I'd try a good one now -- it's a whole different deal. I've got a Trek Fuel EX, and the rear suspension just disappears. I don't notice until it's saving me up a bumpy climb, bad landing, sketchy descent, etc. It keeps the rear wheel planted and lets me do a lot I wouldn't manage on a hardtail. Better mountain bikers I'm sure could do everything I can do no sweat on a hardtail, but coming from a road background, I think they're really nice.
My last mt. bike purchase was 15 years ago and a Stumpjumper FSR Comp. Lots changed I hear.

I’m lucky that 90% of my trails are A) Not very hilly, B] Only as technical as my senior citizen butt can handle, which isn’t much and C) On terrain where the last glacier was kind enough to remove all presence of rocks of most kinds - Long Island. We make up for the lack of what most folks call “technical” by riding as fast as possible thru very tight and twisty ST and over and down what climbs nature has left us.

Thus my choice for a N1 was an HT, which is perfect for the conditions. Fast too.




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Old 03-22-19, 11:08 AM
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I have one bike, a 29er f/s 100mm travel XC bike that I race and fun ride on and I love it. 100mm is enough to take the edge off rough, rocky trails. I don't boost big air, so I don't need more travel. Hardtails accelerate on climbs better for me only if the trails are not irregular and loose--my rear suspension helps keep the tire glued to the ground on loose, bumpy climbs. This bike is 5 years old and I don't get pedal bob climbing--there is some "give" but overall, it's super efficient. I guess its 5-year old design is new enough that issue was worked out. I'm sure newer f/s bikes are even more efficient.
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