BassNotBass

So I was riding home yesterday, taking my lane on a 4 lane stretch of road with a 35mph speed limit. Normally cars speed along the road at more than 45mph and I've gotten clipped many times in the past. I've tried to file police reports since I had vehicle tag numbers but the answer I usually get is that there aren't any witnesses to the incidents so nothing can be done. Apparently there has to be physical evidence and/or 3rd party testimony to the fact otherwise essentially the incident never happened.

Yesterday I almost got clipped yet again by a road-rager but this guy came to a full stop about 20ft ahead of me and started yelling and cussing. The next thing I know he steps out of his car and is in my face calling me a punk a** b**** along with a few other things. Then he spits in my face so I think I called him an a**h***. He punches me in the face but I keep calm even though I want to kick the living crap out of him. At that moment his daughter steps between us and keeps pleading her dad to stop and get back in the car. Eventually he cools down enough but doesn't leave since he saw me get on my phone to report his vehicle tag number and the whole incident. Eventually a police officer shows up and takes statements.

Long story short I cannot press charges because I have no physical proof that any altercation occurred. He punched me hard enough that I was knocked back while straddling my bike and carrying a 30 lb backpack but no bruises or cuts were on my face. Despite having the phone number of a witness who stopped and tried to help me but couldn't wait for the police to show up, her testimony would be dismissed because she wasn't there when the police officer showed up. This was evening rush hour with several dozen witnesses to the incident yet only one person came forward.

This is just absolute BS. I can't believe that I have to resort to buying a video camera and recording my rides to prove what commuters have to go through and the pure hatred displayed towards us. What's the alternative... that I have to be severely maimed or left for dead as proof before 'the law' recognizes that a cyclist was assaulted?

2su

dang. Get a video camera I guess. I honestly don't know how people on this board run into so many angry drivers.

I'm gonna get a camera. Its a GoPro HD Hero. But not cause I want to video jerk drivers... just cause I want to post videos of my rides around town.

JeremyZ

Possible Lessons here:

• Don't "take your lane." If you keep getting clipped, and punched in the face, you're obviously not safer this way.
• Next time, beat the crap out of the guy. He threw the first punch, so you would be defending yourself.
• Why did you stop to talk to the jerk? You knew he was a road-rager. He was in a car, even if he got in front of you & stopped, you wouldn't have to stop.
• Wasn't there any "physical evidence" from him punching you in the face? Next time, get physical evidence by making the police get off their butts and writing a report. Then, you've got his plates and physical evidence. If they won't do it, go to an emergency room or call an ambulance and get it documented. Leave it bleeding. Next step, call the lawyer & put the hurt on him.

Even if you have video, it has to show everything to be admissible as evidence. The lawyers will "create reasonable doubt" So here's what you do: Whup his butt for him, then leave. You have no license plate and it usually takes the cops a good while to show up. If the cops do show up, it will be obvious he pulled over to start the altercation with you. It isn't like you could stop him and make him get out of his car...

Lesson: Next time, fight. If you don't get away Scot free, you'll at least share the misery with the jerk.

wildergeek

I asked a cop in Kettering, Ohio about admissibility of video, if nothing else, to have a patrol officer go out to the offender's home and give them a warning. He said that "video can be edited" implication being that it's not admissible evidence. I think this is a complete BS answer and probably wrong. I think they just don't want to be bothered. After this, I kind of lost interest in the video camera thing. Why bother if it can't be used as evidence?

Well, I had another road rage incident this AM. I turned left at a T intersection. Green light. After I was about a half block away from the intersection, the car previously stopped at the light (who had ample time to see my reflectors, Dinotte taillight, etc) rides up my ass, flashing his lights and blaring his horn. My lane was too narrow to share (2 lanes in either direction) so rather than risk stopping and being hit, I waved for him to go around me and I took the lane for my own safety.

As the motorist speeds around me, he starts yelling out the window but I shut him down with my air horn. He speeds up ahead and appears as if he is planning to pull onto a side street and make a very bad choice to get out of his car. As it turned out, another car (that passed me courteously) was behind him and honked and flashed him to keep him moving.

On one hand, I feel like I dodged a bullet. On the other hand, with adrenalin coursing through my veins, I soooo wanted him to stop and get out of his car.

I think maybe the helmet cam idea just came back to life. My plan will be to post my encounter videos on YouTube with as much info as possible (plate number minimum). If I can find out where the offender lives or works, I'll post that too. I think it's reasoable to let employers know how their employees behave in the community, don't you?

Bontrager

Get an attorney. File a complaint. Inconvenience the guy so that he doesn't do the same to the next rider. Have a mental plan to start capturing video or getting the attention of passers-by. Post the video on utube. Call your local tv news show. Have them show the video on TV.

Sure video might be inadmissible in court but people on the internets talk like EVERYTHING goes to court. It doesn't. Lawyers cost money. It costs the parties incrementally more money (and you get incrementally less if you win) when the attorney has to take something to trial.

undisputed83

I don't know why the cops wouldn't pursue it. People are stupid... and the guy probably could have made an incriminating statement to the cop.

BassNotBass

Whether I take my lane or ride to the far right I still get clipped. In fact the incidences are fewer when I take my lane.


I've learned to be the bigger man and not even get goaded into physical altercations. If my life were threatened and I had to fight to save it, that's another matter. I'd have every reason to take it as far as necessary. The problem is that I may not have the self control to stop or only take it as far as deemed reasonable once started in these situations.


He was in my lane and rush hour traffic whizzing by on my left. I had no idea who else was in the Suburban with tinted windows so I felt it best to not proceed forward and pass the vehicle under any circumstances.



Like I said, none. I don't bruise or get hurt very easily. Maybe I should have cried and used tears as evidence?


I didn't know who else was in the SUV with him. He could have had a bunch of guys with him who share his lack of self control. They could have beaten me down or killed me and left without any witnesses coming forward. The cops would eventually arrive and nothing would be done... exactly as it has, except that in this case I'm OK.



Like I said, that's not an option. Before I were to regrain a decent level of sanity he could be dead and I in the slammer or me dead and he long gone. Either way I lose.

BassNotBass

The police officer that showed up is the same guy who's responded before. He didn't seem to really care what happened... there wasn't any blood or carnage so what's it to him? He seemed more interested in having us get on our separate ways.

emperorcezar

I don't understand people. This seems to happen a lot on four lane roads for some reason. I thought is, are they too lazy, or just too stupid to change lanes?

Loose Chain

So you were punched in the face and did nothing and the daughter when asked if she witnessed it lied?

Again, if somebody chases me down or knocks me down or however they do it punch me, when I get up, it will be my turn and all hell is going to break loose. You have a right ot defend yourself, you do not have any idea who the stranger is, what they are doing or anything other than they are attacking you and in most states, that gives you the right to use any means needed including deadly force to protect yourself.

I always ignore, avoid, evade, ignore, avoid, evade----but when cornered with eminent threat of assault I esacalte to a verbal, clear, concise warning followed by MACE or followed by a very sharp knife or followed by a GLOCK 40S&W, whichever of the three choices that I feel is appropriate to prevent injury to myself. Thus far I have never needed to go beyond a verbal warning that I am armed and will defend myself. I have a concealed carry permit. I have only had to give a verbal warning once. The .40 borehole of a GLOCK pointed in the assailants face would I imagine give them cause to go elsewhere if I had needed to go further with it, they left.

pathdoc

Sue him in civil court.

enim

Part of why I love being on a bike - not even a car can't really chase you effectively. You can cut down wrong-way streets, sidewalks, paths, grass, anything if necessary.

I had one guy get mad enough to speed ahead and get out, but I just rode right by with a calm wave. I didn't want to fight him (despite the U-lock in my back pocket if necessary), because its not worth it.

ItsJustMe

+1 on the GoPro HD. A friend has one, and they appear to be very much worth the money.

I am pretty sure that they used them on Mythbusters, the most recent episode (Duct Tape Hour 2) - they had them on their helmets when they were walking across the duct tape bridge. The video looked pretty good to me, and apparently they think it's good enough to use on commercial HD broadcast TV. $300 sounds a bit steep but it's not, given the quality.

I have read reports that it stops at 30 minutes when recording at full 1080p HD at 60 FPS, but I wouldn't do that for evidence anyway; even 24 FPS is plenty for evidence.

neil

This is police-speak for "I don't give a flying ****." Video submitted while at the scene should be legitimate evidence. Yes, if you go home and send it in later, this would create reasonable doubt in criminal matters, but - and I'm not an expert - I would expect would still be useful for prosecuting a fine or for suing his ass.

To the OP. If the police will do nothing, you do still have the option of lawyering up and suing for the assault. The standard of evidence in a civil case is much lower than a criminal one (balance of probabilities vs reasonable doubt). You'd have to prove damages though to get anything, but there may be punitive damages as well (I have no idea). It might be worth inquiring.

I always find it odd the number of angry drivers posters here encounter. I've had the odd moron slow down to shout something at me, and the very occasional honking, but nothing physical, and nothing that approaches the anger that some of you get, and it's pretty uncommon.

Seattle Forrest

Photos can be* edited, too, and these are used in court all the time. A photograph itself isn't evidence in a complete sense. It's a view into something, and, coupled with the sworn testimony of the person who created the photo, that it isn't doctored in some important way*, they're pretty effective in court. I would be shocked if the same wasn't true for video. The main difference is that while Stalin can have his buddy taken out of a photo, it's a lot more difficult to do this at 24 frames per second.

* Actually, photos can't be shown without some kind of editing. When you take a roll of film to Walgreens, their machine adjusts the contrast, does some sharpening, etc. Some people clone dust and scratches away. As long as this doesn't change the fact that you have a shot of Norman Bates with the knife in his hand, pulling the shower curtain back, it's immaterial. So I'm pretty sure "Video can be edited" means "This is a good doughnut."

The OP should probably go to the emergency room, and see if they can find any evidence of his having been assaulted. A punch in the face is certain to at least break some capillaries.

It shouldn't be. I must pass and be passed by a thousand cars every day while commuting. But for the most part, these encounters aren't salient enough to start a thread over.

JeremyZ

The mace or pepper spray is a good idea. Would be easy to carry, non-lethal; perfect.

Hose the guy down and ride away while he is trying to catch is breath & open his eyes.

I'm going to think about getting some to carry on my person. It would also work on dogs...

EKW in DC

+1

Glad you're OK, though, Bass. I also agree w/ others that it seems like video turned over at the scene should be admissible in a criminal trial, if there were to be one.

Of course the police in this case weren't willing to take it that far. Not to justify anyone's actions or belittle your situation (I mean, my blood boils just reading your story), but I think that the cop's reaction to just take statements and get you two away from each other is pretty much what I'd expect. Their number one job, after all, is to keep the peace, not overload the DA's office w/ criminal cases.

RobertFrapples

Policemen are not lawyers. Do not expect them to know the law. Do not trust them to interpret the law for you. Get your own lawyer and press charges.

wildergeek

That's because most Canadians are polite but here in the USA it's all about me, me, me. I'm starting to understand why the entire world hates us.

radshark

Don't forget to pitch his keys someplace too... you don't want to be a hood ornament.

radshark

Don't forget to pitch his keys someplace too... you don't want to be a hood ornament.

radshark

Amen.

idiotekniQues

unbelievable. wherever you live sounds like biker hell.

kgriffioen

Is that why people are risking their lives trying to get in?

I use a camera, its a $75 oregon scientific cheapy model. I have it so that my wife will have someone to sue when I get taken out. Hopefully she will never need it.

ItsJustMe

Depends on where you live. In 5 years I've been yelled at 3 times and have never had what I'd consider a scary pass; probably nothing closer than 2 feet and I don't think those were on purpose. I also can leave my bike on the sidewalk in town for hours and it'll still be there when I get back.

Also, I've read in a few places that Canadians can be just as much trouble for cyclists as americans. I'm reading a touring journal right now of a Canadian who rode to the tip of South America and back, he's back up in Canada right now heading home, and he said that in one 30 minute stretch of road in Canada he had more people yelling at him, close passing and honking than he has had in the last 4 years of traveling through the US, Mexico, and South America.