Kapusta

What tubeless, (or tubeless ready) rim-compatible, 26” MTB rims are you using?

DangerousDanR

I have 26" tubeless UST Mavic rims on a early 1980's Ritchey mountain bike. They do exist.

PeteHski

Changing pads is a trivial task. Maybe a 5 min job at most and does NOT require a brake bleed. You are clueless about this.

PeteHski

So true!

PeteHski

Agreed, nothing wrong with enjoying C&V bikes. They were the best bikes of their era and they are as good today as they were then. But pretending that newer bikes are inferior and/or marketing hype is poor form.

georges1

Mavic XM819 UST Tubeless rims laced to DT240S hubs on the Kona and the Scapin, Mavic XM819 UST Tubeless rims laced to Shimano XT 780 T hubs on the Merida and Mavic Crossmax SL SSC on the Jamis.

Dave Mayer

Shop mechanic here. Will be working on this stuff today...

• Disc brake systems overall are heavier and pad replacements are more difficult, expensive and time consuming. The frustrating incompatibilities between a multitude of systems doesn't help.
• Most of the riding public is not capable of replacing disc pads, whereas they would take on rim pad replacements based on experience or after watching a quick video. The cartridge-based pad systems make rim brake pad replacements simpler.
• Hydraulic bleeds: very few of the riding public will take this on.
• Most of the riding public would be better served with rim brakes due to the simplicity, lower weight and lower cost. Plus not everyone is riding with camping gear down big descents in the rain; the extra braking performance is just not worth it.
• Suspension: for most riders an unnecessary burden. Extra weight, complexity, and especially cost. Shedding the extraneous suspension gear would allow manufacturers to put more money into some areas that really matter, such as wheels.
• Tubeless: Your average rider has maybe one flat per year, which is longer than the maintenance interval for tubeless (dried out sealant). Plus the extra PITA on setup and the impossibility of roadside repairs.
• Internal cable routing. It looks kewl, saves you .001 watts of air resistance, and it ties you inexorably to your shop for the simplest of maintenance items. $300 to swap out a stem?
• Yet another cassette cog every 7 years? Enough already.

Manufacturers should stick to simple technology that works, instead of extraneous complicated gimmicks. Progress I guess.

rsbob 

Looks like job security. Just like cars have become more complex requiring technical expertise. Then there is my 71 car that I can wrench on versus my ‘17. The 71 works fine but prefer the ‘17 just like my 2020 bike over the ‘82. The new stuff goes to the shop. It’s the price of ownership and choosing not to educate myself when I could be doing something else.

I can replace my Shimano disc pads in about 2 mins.

StanSeven

Good thread and lots of good discussion. But please avoid insults. Thanks

Stan

PeteHski

Most of the "riding public" won't even read BF. Changing disc pads is simple and you know it.

Maelochs

. Oh, BS. Changing pads on any bike is a five-minute job. I don't care how many years you have worked in how many shops .... I have been maintaining bikes for as long. Most posters here have. That is just BS.

As for different systems needing different pads .... yeah. Same with rim brakes. I have had sidepull, centerpull, and V-brakes in my stable at one time. Guess what? Different techniques needed for each. Different pads needed for each. None of them difficult at all.

Are disc systems heavier ... a bit. But the whole "Only a light bike is a good bike thing" is a marketing ploy. Racers like light bikes ... but racers like discs. Everyday riders .... the "light bike" fetish is sort of comical. Most riders could stand to lose some weight ... and of course, we are all carrying tools, tubes or patches/plugs, CO2 or pumps, food, water .... saving a few hundred grams is not that big a deal.

I like light bikes but the "added weight" of discs is a non-issue. Anyone who claims his or her ride was ruined by an extra 300 grams is flat lying or delusional.

Like the man said, nice attempt at maintaining job security. Again, pure BS. Changing brake shoes is much less complicated than tying shoe laces. So is indexing gears ... does this mean we should all ride S/S? I sort of agree ... most people probably aren't using 90+% of their braking potential on almost any ride. But ... is it wasted if they only use it once and it saves their butts? Tough call for some ... unless it is your butt ..... Are you high? Almost all bikes Do Not Have Suspension ... and the bikes we are discussing which have suspension,,,,,,, were dedicated off-road bikes. More massive BS. You have no idea how often "riders" have flats ... some people live in goathead country, some ride urban environments .... and most probably don't come to you for flat repair because of your attitude.

Lots of people ride tubeless off-road and find it a tremendous boon (you did notice how much of the discussion was about mountain bikes, right?) and a lot of people ride tubeless on the road and find it ... a huge boon. Lower pressure, no pinch flats, self-sealing punctures, and should something go wrong, screw in a plug, pump up the tire, and roll away. I am not sure where you live, but here in reality, a lot of people use tubeless with no problems. Sorry for you...... Okay, now we are into "Old Wrench Yelling at Clouds:" territory. Anyone who buys a bike with an aero stem know what they are getting and why. Whether you approve is immaterial. And a few of my bikes have regular stems and internal cabling through the frame. I have not found it to be a problem. Maybe next time you have trouble, give me a call, I will straighten you out. .. Enough for whom? Basically you are here saying "Nobody should do anything without consulting me!" Yeah ... whatever. See those clouds? No one is yelling at them. Stop slacking.

.Manufacturers should stick to ...... tech which works, like all of the stuff you complain about. It all works and it all works well, your pointless carping aside .... and most of it is pretty simple.

Bikes have gotten Way better since I started riding. And funny enough, the stuff I started riding ... single-speed coaster brake, three-speed IGH with dual rim brakes .... it is all around still, and still works. And now we have so many other options.

Please ... get back in your Ford Model T and drive back into the past. The rest of us are fine here.

PeteHski

The rim brake weight weenie argument never gets old.

PeteHski

BS to that. I've repaired plenty of tubeless tyres by the roadside. Mostly mtb in the UST era without sealant. But I have had to use the odd Dynaplug on road tyres in the last 3 years. You can always fit a tube as a last resort - which I have never had to actually do with any tubeless setup.

I used to get about one flat per month on average with tubed road tyres. So I was well above your estimated average.

Broctoon

This is another example of the old attitude that “30 years ago (when I got into bikes) we reached the pinnacle of bike development. Everything introduced prior to that time is useful and worth having, but everything that’s come out since then is a waste. Nobody needs any of these newfangled gimmicks. The only stuff that’s not newfangled gimmicks is whatever I had on my bikes back in my heyday.”

Nine, ten, or thirteen cogs are unnecessary? Why are seven not too many? What makes that the perfect number? Why even have a derailleur? Single speed is light, durable, simple, and dead reliable, so is everyone with five or more gears being duped? What about cantilever brakes? You’re saying they’re a good idea, because they work better than center pull calipers on a mountain bike, but hydraulic disc brakes are too heavy, expensive, and difficult to maintain, so never mind their benefits; not worth having?

Disc brakes too heavy and complicated, not to mention hard to maintain. But 3x drivetrain superior to a 1x and wide range cassette. What am I missing?

Atlas Shrugged

There is a contingent of our BF community who are similar to freshly hatched birds imprinted on the first bikes that impressed them like the duckling who thinks their mother is a Labrador Retriever. It's the same argument every time any newer tech discussion beyond 1975. I understand the collector/hoarder aspect of the C&V community but not the Luddite view that all improvements since their perceived golden era of bikes are useless or a detriment and only a result of Big Bikes marketing campaigns and an unsuspecting public.

Steel vs Carbon
Friction vs Indexed
Tubular vs Everything else
3x vs 2x
36 Spokes vs Less
Rim vs Disc

Ride what you want, but attempting to convince others that these older technologies are superior is bizarre. An old mechanic telling non-truths and exaggerations to make a point looks sad.

There is a contingent of old-timer C&V riders who I sometimes see at a local cycling cafe or on a popular cycling route. Beautifully restored dream machines and a happy group of guys enjoying a weekend ride, telling stories and getting some exercise. They are not riding these C&V bikes because of there performance advantages but rather as part of the hobby of collecting bicycles. They don’t frown on people riding modern bikes nor do those who ride modern bikes look down on them.

I am amazed every time I go for a ride the improvements in bike tech. Take a new S-Works Roubaix for a spin followed up any 70’s era bike and honestly declare you would prefer riding the vintage rig on your next long weekend ride. If your answer is yes you would be in a extremely limited cohort, for a reason!

georges1

I have already 30 speeds on all myMTBs (ten speeds cassettes and triple cranks, the XT 780 T was a 30 speeds group nor a 27speeds nor 22 speeds) , that will be the same setup for my next bike projects. There is no perfect number of speeds , you ride what you need and what suits you the best.12 speeds may work for you whereas 30 speeds work for me and 22 speeds may work for others.
Regarding brakes, the ubrake was a good thing but short lived. I know people who still have magura brakes on their bikes. I also still have a 32 years old hybrid bike with center pull brakes which stops fine. People who were used to service and change disc brakes have probably done it when disc brakes appeared on the market which is why they can do it quickly.

terrymorse 

"Perfect" is an unattainable fantasy. Every technology change involves a trade-off.

There is guideline that is pertinent: a technology change that's not backwards compatible had better deliver a big improvement.

Switching from N cogs to N+1 cogs arguably lies in the "compatibility breaking change with minor improvement" category.

wolfchild

So tubeless don't really prevent flats, that's good to know.. I'll stick with my old fashioned tubed tires.

big john

I worked for 50 years, most of it as an auto mechanic and the last 30 years as a new car dealer diagnostic tech. There are plenty of long term mechanic/techs in the biz who are resistant to anything new and will speak out against it. There are also plenty who don't know what they are talking about.

When I started working on cars there were no computers, let alone all the other changes that happened since the early 70s. I was the first at my dealer to be electric car certified. Also diesel certified. Embrace the change, no sense sniveling about it. See the viability in something different, not just your prejudices.

PeteHski

Well not if you don’t use sealant.

PeteHski

Lots of people have already informed you that changing disc brake pads is a trivial 5 min job requiring no special tools or skill. Just accept it, learn and move on.

PeteHski

EVs are really bringing out all the Luddites. They are always keen to list and exaggerate all the negatives and unwilling to acknowledge any positives. They just don’t want to accept anything different.

Dave Mayer

The industry sycophants and gullible early adopters are easily riled!

Extending their arguments, we absolutely need new tech on road bikes such as:

• 15-speed cassettes with a 8-50 cog range
• Suspension forks
• Rear suspension
• Electrically-operated dropper posts
• 52mm tires pumped to 20psi

35 pounds, but then what is a little extra weight?

PeteHski

You are the one who appears to be riled by the entire bike industry.

So anyone who buys a new bike is now an “early adopter”? What a load of BS.

big john

You're a terrible comedian.