antokelly

Electric motor system used by banned Belgian cyclist revealed by UCI - Cycling Weekly

so would this gadget not be a fantastic idea on a loaded touring bike used for those big long climbs only you understand.
not sure about battery life tho could be a problem, but if it wasn't i reckon it's a fantastic idea.
what say u all

Yan 

Wow, I've been reading about these seat tube motors for a long time and never thought a professional would have the gall to try to cheat with one.

Regarding touring, it would be great if the energy from coasting downhill could be used to charge the battery, like on a hybrid car.

deapee

Someone said the battery charges as the wheel turns lol -- like the alternator on your car.

Personally, I ride a bike because I like to use my own power...getting 5, 10, 25 extra watts out of it isn't going to make a difference for any of us. We're literally talking the difference of like less than a percent. But when a long race comes down to seconds, that 1% can win the race. I think that is the temptation of the racers, but literally, I don't even think we'd notice a motor being there or not.

EDIT: Just read the article, and they claim 200 watts for 60-90 minutes...that's more significant than I assumed a little motor could be capable of. I kind of retract my statement of less than a percent...but I still stick by my statement of not wanting anything to do with anything powering my bike but me.

MixedRider

If you are going to use an electric motor for touring, just get a normal e-bike and save your money (the motor in the article above is ALOT of money). I like bike riders that solve problems through training, gearing or route planning rather than just slapping a motor on their bike. Heck, add a big enough motor and you can go on the interstate and get those 80 miles done in a hour!

I understand there is a place in the world for electric/assist bicycles. However, I lose respect for riders using them to brag on the interweb about how far they can go or long of hills they can climb or dangerously zig-zag between children and senior citizens on a trail. Once you add a motor to a bike, it becomes a motorbike.

antokelly

yeah but the way i'm thinking is my bad back hurts going uphill and if that motor saves me from pain then i'm game .i would not have an issue riding a bike like that not one bit it's a great bit of engineering some one gave that a lot of thought fair play to who ever invented it.

robert schlatte

In my mind bike touring is about using your own power and wits to go the distance. I don't want to have a motor assist me. If that's the case, I will just tour on a motorcycle.

fietsbob

As I heard.. parts alone @ 2700 euros.. .. as they now find them pretty easy to spot from their heat signature ..

you will want a way to dissipate that extra Heat.. Finned aluminum heat sink? maybe a water based heat exchange

probably have hot water to make a cup of tea and enjoy the view once you get to the pass-summit.

antokelly

i need all the help i can get going up hill.
robert it's nothing like a motorbike but each to there own.

Wilfred Laurier

I think you need to check your math. If 5 watts is less than a percent of your average power output then you should be posting as an elite racer and not a tourist.

Tourist in MSN

I often use a bike path that is near an E-bike store, personnel from the store use that path for demos. When I ride my (non-E) bike on that path, I regularly am passed as I am slowly pedaling up a hill by grossly obese people that are coasting up hill. I am not kidding, they are not even pedaling as they motor up the hill under electric power. I bet they are thinking how great it is to get outside and get some exercise without even having to pedal at all.

Wisconsin (my state) is considering a rule change to allow motorized bikes with up to 750 watt motors (about one horse power) on the designated bike trails in the state.

In my opinion if you want to have a motor on your bike, that is what they sell mopeds and motorcycles for.

deapee

Thanks...will double check my math.

The 1% statement was kind of made in jest and not meant to be an accurate reflection of a mathematical calculation. I'm not all that informed of how one works or how it charges -- as we do know, if there is a generator charging a battery pack, that also creates drag on the system, so just because something may put out a certain amount of power, we don't know the reduction in power from the drag caused by charging the battery -- if there's not a generator charging a battery pack, then the life of the motor to produce peak power (whether it's 5 watts or 200 watts) is finite and limited by the ability of the battery to produce power to the motor. One would also assume that as the charge in the battery diminished, the efficiency of the motor would likely diminish as well. This also brings into question, if trying to determine an actual number, how long a race is compared to how long the motor could provide its assistance. That doesn't bring into the equation the fact that the overall numbers are very likely to depend on gradients encountered -- because as mechanical resistance increases, the power drain will also increase.

Anyway, unless I have more technical information, you'd have to assume the percentage was pulled from the air and completely made up.

Wilfred Laurier

Since these devices are generally intended only to add power to your drivetrain, I don't think an arrangement where you can charge the battery while riding will be commonly used - it's a plug-in electric drive. So no matter how efficient the motor, or how far through it's usable life the battery is, it will be a net addition of power when activated.

indyfabz

Actually, the article reads:

"Vivax claims that its system can provide pedalling assistance for 60-90 minutes, and up to 200 watts of power directly to the bottom bracket."

That is not the same as saying 200 watts for 60-90 minutes.

imi

If and when I am too old to tour under my own steam, a battery driven bicycle may keep me on the road for a number of years...

I am sure that on the first day I take an assisted pedal stroke, I will shed a tear of joy and thanks for the inventors of such contraptions!

prathmann

The amount of assistance you can get will be limited by the size of battery you're willing to pay for and carry. The first ebike battery I looked up has an output of 36V and a capacity of 10A-hr and weighs about 9 lbs. So it could provide an average assistance of 60W over the course of a day with 6 hours of actual riding time. That's quite a bit of extra power over the average level of a typical touring cyclist. But you'd have the extra weight of the 9 lb. battery plus the motor and mounting hardware and the charger. Furthermore you'd need to be sure that you have electrical power available overnight for recharging or you might have to get through the next day's ride without any assistance and still with the extra weight. If you plan to stay in motels or other places with electrical outlets then carrying multiple batteries of that size would be feasible for higher average assistance levels.

antokelly

Thanks imi

fietsbob

Anto, I live in a town built over a Hill* The LBS now has Bosch type Mid drive Motors

but they are Not Hidden they're right out in the open and tjhe frame is built around them

and a Retrofit motor that replaces the crank set .. nothing secret about them either .

they stopped dealing in Hub motor types as the torque was not there ..

* My push bikes are reminding me of Sisyphus, with in 5 blocks
of leaving the few streets that go around the edge .

The buyers have often bought a rack to carry their rifles across the handlebars, off to bag an elk
in its hunting season. in the forest here or the river.. Pacific county Washington.

those pencil motors may not be the kind of Boost you need ,
but they do get a lot of free advertising.

Tourist in MSN

I see from the comments above, some of you are supportive of E bikes. Although I am not supportive of them, I will comment that if you get one be careful how you charge your batteries. See this link: Odana Road e-bike shop fire started by battery, firefighters say | News - Channel3000.com
Or: UPDATE: Fire at Crazy Lenny's E-Bikes causes $350,000 damage

Benjamino

I work for a company that develops and sells parts for conversion kits. I don't want to self-promote, but the name of the company is named after the look on peoples faces after their first ebike ride. Most of our customers are Boomers that still want to do their 20km 1-way commute on a bike, but don't quite have the steam that they used to. Your sentiment is the one that I come across the most. We also sell a lot to people who want to go carless and use a cargo bike for most of their needs. An electric system makes a tonne of sense there too. I also sell a lot to people who have mobility issues, including a guy who lost his legs in a car accident, but not his zest for bike parks. He had a custom built quadracycle built with two massive motors and is able to enjoy a good quality of life as a result. Good for him, I say.

I have a fairly powerful ebike (1100W peak, ~40km/h top speed) and I really don't stand out too much from the non-electric riders (expect on hills, lol). I still ride my 'acoustic' bike most days, as it helps the beer belly. Given my intimate knowledge of these systems, I would not want to take one of a long tour. It adds double the amount of parts to fail in my opinion, but that's just me.

You would not be able to get a system like the one in question to regen. Even if you were, you usually only see 5-10% going back to the battery in most cases. The idea that "it charges as you ride" is a very common misconception. 1) Batteries charge a lot slower than they discharge, 2) You would need momentum to over-come 200W of charge current, which would equal Back to the Future type speeds.

To everyone that tells me that eBike are cheating, I tell them that I didn't know we were racing, which is normally true.

350htrr

That's probably because... Most people seem to want to ride E-Bikes as mopeds and for hills... IMO as I have noticed the trend heading that way for the last few years... Even the laws are being "modified" to "Allow" more and more power and speed, and throttle, yet still be considered a bicycle...

fietsbob

Maybe Moose Jaw, Regina and Winnipeg you have different needs than Victoria and Vancouver.

350htrr

Really? Hub motors would outshine mid drives In Victoria, and Vancouver, both flat as a pancake if I remember it right...

Benjamino

Flat as a pancake right before you have to flip it, lol. Hub motors can have plenty of torque, maybe not on per weight basis compared to a mid-drive system, but they can be very capable hill climbers.

Doug64

You see hundreds of them on the popular European bike routes.

I ride a bike because I like riding a bike. If I wanted some thing with a motor it would be BMW. E-bikes are similar to the difference between a canoe and a motor boat. Yes, I also have a canoe

350htrr

Yes they do/can have, Plenty of torque, but mid drives do have the gears they can use for them there big hills...