Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Help, upgrade needed to beat my nephew in 20 mile dash

Search
Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Help, upgrade needed to beat my nephew in 20 mile dash

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-21-17, 01:42 PM
  #101  
nycphotography
NYC
 
nycphotography's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,714
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times in 62 Posts
Never mind the naysayers, there is no reason you can't train and get stronger and keep beating him... well only one reason... if he really gets focused on training, you will have a hard time keeping pace with his improvements.

But there are tons of Masters on here who can tear the legs off of most younger riders.

Younger riders have the advantage in that a little training goes a long way, and they recover fast so they don't have to be as methodical about it.

But older riders have the advantage of mental focus, power of will, and organization... especially for things that take longer to achieve than a music video.

Maybe you should look for people to ride with... group rides, especially fast group rides, can be very rewarding.

Last edited by nycphotography; 02-21-17 at 02:09 PM.
nycphotography is offline  
Old 02-21-17, 01:47 PM
  #102  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18373 Post(s)
Liked 4,508 Times in 3,351 Posts
Originally Posted by nycphotography
But older riders have the advantage of metal focus, power of will, and organization... especially for things that take longer to achieve than a music video.
????

Listening to the wrong music while you're riding?
CliffordK is offline  
Old 02-21-17, 02:09 PM
  #103  
nycphotography
NYC
 
nycphotography's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,714
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times in 62 Posts
Originally Posted by CliffordK
????

Listening to the wrong music while you're riding?
lol yeah and paying attention when typing too.
nycphotography is offline  
Old 02-21-17, 02:33 PM
  #104  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times in 1,417 Posts
Originally Posted by Reynolds
Sorry, but I think a realistic goal by now is just trying to not get dropped...
He already is. That's the thing.

OP: From what I've read, he's going to beat you in a side-by-side time trial. And he has enough snap to drop you off the line. Your best strategy is to do anything and everything possible to hold his wheel off the line, force him to drag you to the end, hope that he's sufficiently fatigued, and then come around.

So you're going to have to work on improving your snap so you can hold his wheel when he attacks. One of my go-tos is "15 second drag race" intervals: 53x15, from a standstill or as close as you can, then jump hard for 15 seconds, it will be really hard to turn over the pedals to start, really focus on getting on top of the gear, keep accelerating all the way through 15 seconds. I usually do 5 of these.

Then same thing, but in the small ring: 39x15. This time it'll be easier to start but you'll soon get on top of the gear and now your focus is on spinning as fast as you can. Really focus on turning your feet over. 5 of these too.

Another thing is to work on jumping from speed. Gradually roll up to 20mph, pick a tree or sign 100m ahead, then out of the saddle and sprint as hard as possible.

I'll do a work out that is designed to work on the ability to hold speed: I will roll down an overpass or levee road (pretty flat here), soft pedal so that I hit the flat part at my target speed (27mph early in the season, up to 30 or 31 later) and then hold that speed for 60 seconds.

And you'll need to work on your short-term recovery so that you can deal with repeated attacks which will happen as soon as your nephew figures out he's not dropping you off the line: 30sec on/off. These are simple: 30s as hard as you can, 30s recovery (soft-pedal), repeat ad vomitum.

If you do these, in addition to FTP and VO2max work, you will get faster.
caloso is offline  
Old 02-21-17, 02:39 PM
  #105  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times in 1,417 Posts
Finally, OP I feel your pain. I am a little older than you (49) and my son is a little younger than your nephew (turns 13 in a few weeks) and he attacks me at the end of every ride, especially when I've dragged his skinny butt through a headwind all ride. I know his tricks, but one of these days he's just going to ride his old man off his wheel. That day will come and the only thing I can do is to move it as far out into the future as possible.
caloso is offline  
Old 02-21-17, 02:54 PM
  #106  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,549

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5224 Post(s)
Liked 3,581 Times in 2,342 Posts
just let it go. there comes a time ... ;-)
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 02-21-17, 03:48 PM
  #107  
nycphotography
NYC
 
nycphotography's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,714
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times in 62 Posts
Originally Posted by rumrunn6
just let it go. there comes a time ... ;-)
Some go gentle into that good night.

Some do not.
nycphotography is offline  
Old 02-21-17, 03:50 PM
  #108  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,549

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5224 Post(s)
Liked 3,581 Times in 2,342 Posts
still remember when my son 1st smoked me on the running track. dam !@#$%&*! teenagers

but his big smile was priceless
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 02-21-17, 04:04 PM
  #109  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18373 Post(s)
Liked 4,508 Times in 3,351 Posts
Originally Posted by rumrunn6
just let it go. there comes a time ... ;-)
Perhaps just enjoy the time the kid will still ride with the "OLD MAN"

Before riding into the sunset with his new college friends.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 02-21-17, 05:11 PM
  #110  
Red90
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Your just delaying the inevitable... but hold on as long as you can. If the kid has more time, testosterone and youth... you will eventually lose.

However... since you haven't done any structured training, there are gains to be had there. Even if you don't have as much time as the kid does in riding. The HIIT training is good, but also trying to train in an aero position helps a lot. For myself going at about 20mph from the hoods to the drops nets me about 1mph faster for the same power output. However, my heart rate will increase and I'm not as efficient when I'm down low with the same power level. So it's a matter of just more practice and flexibility to get comfortable in the lower position. Also learning to spin a bit faster will add a tool to help you keep up without burning your legs out early.

As to gear... tight fitting clothes with net you the best bang for the buck, low rolling resistance tires and tubes, and aero helmet. Since you are racing on flats, make sure you have close gearing to always keep you in your optimal cadence.
Red90 is offline  
Old 02-21-17, 06:54 PM
  #111  
Reynolds 
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,597

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked 721 Times in 396 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso

OP: From what I've read, he's going to beat you in a side-by-side time trial. And he has enough snap to drop you off the line. Your best strategy is to do anything and everything possible to hold his wheel off the line, force him to drag you to the end, hope that he's sufficiently fatigued, and then come around.
+1. As an old racer told me once, "Grab that wheel and fight tooth and nail to keep there".
IF OP is a sprinter, he might have a chance.
Reynolds is offline  
Old 02-22-17, 10:34 AM
  #112  
Drew Eckhardt 
Senior Member
 
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,341

Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked 325 Times in 226 Posts
Originally Posted by Morghulis

I'm currently riding a Cannondale Supersix Rival with Ksyrium Elite wheels. Would any of the below listed bikes gain me some time over a flat 15- 20 mile course:
Not really.

Training will do the most for you. That can get you to 21 MPH for an hour solo when you weigh 136 pounds in peak shape, faster if you're a more average sized guy. 7-10 minute intervals as hard as possible once a week will do the most to improve your lactate threshold which is your limit for an hour. Shorter intervals are too fatiguing for you to rack up as much time, longer intervals don't let you ride hard enough to stress the relevant systems as much.

Past 40 you have more patience than kids; should be far enough into your career and child rearing to have time for 10+ hours a week; and are more used to suffering.

Buy a decent pair of tires for $80 imported from your favorite UK source. Good tires like the Continental GP4000S can save 15-20W at 20 MPH.

Buy a skin tight aero jersey for $50-$200. With 70% of your drag coming from the rider who's shaped like a barn door, a skin tight aero jersey will do more for you than anything except switching to aero bars. It'll give you nearly all the gain from a skin suit, but still work if your top and bottom aren't proportionally sized and not omit the pockets. This year's model can run $200, last year's $100, and a previous year custom program size sample about $50. Some manufacturers' custom programs no longer have order minimums (I think LG now does one-offs).

Contemporary 25-30mm deep aluminum wheels are pretty good. This year's dimpled Zipp 58mm carbon rims will barely save you 5W at 20 MPH.

Riding with your forearms level is free, and doing that with your hands on the hoods is faster than riding with your back in the same position but reaching down to the drops.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 02-22-17 at 10:56 AM.
Drew Eckhardt is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mmorrison22
Road Cycling
7
04-30-19 11:02 AM
chubbo
Road Cycling
11
08-14-14 04:40 AM
Monkeyclaw
Road Cycling
6
04-20-13 09:06 PM
Floppy
Road Cycling
6
01-10-13 08:28 AM
kayakdiver
Road Cycling
18
10-02-10 09:01 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.