Steel Gravel Bikes with the Most Upright/Relaxed Posture
#26
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,538
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10902 Post(s)
Liked 7,390 Times
in
4,148 Posts
- You quoted my full post and said my perspective is totally wrong. You then rambled that I am talking about aesthetics and that fit and geometry are not synonymous.
- I reiterate that old mtbs with drop bars are not the ideal setup for someone who wants tall stack and short reach.
- You as if I misquoted you.
Good lord. I was taking a chance replying to a chaadster post and I regret it once again.
#27
Senior Member
Another vote for Rivendell. You can get a nice build for ~$3,500 from them. Also, you say you have no "access" to Marin, but you can certainly order them online. The Four Corners sounds about perfect for you.
If you want to spend less then Rivendell, lots of companies sell adventurous steel touring bikes that might be perfect:
https://www.rei.com/product/122462/c...B&gclsrc=aw.ds
https://www.citygrounds.com/products...gaAn5eEALw_wcB
https://www.crimsonbikes.com/product...IaAp-HEALw_wcB
https://mybikeshop.com/products/2021...0aAvp5EALw_wcB
https://surlybikes.com/bikes/ogre
https://www.crimsonbikes.com/product...kaAjrGEALw_wcB
..etc.
If you want to spend less then Rivendell, lots of companies sell adventurous steel touring bikes that might be perfect:
https://www.rei.com/product/122462/c...B&gclsrc=aw.ds
https://www.citygrounds.com/products...gaAn5eEALw_wcB
https://www.crimsonbikes.com/product...IaAp-HEALw_wcB
https://mybikeshop.com/products/2021...0aAvp5EALw_wcB
https://surlybikes.com/bikes/ogre
https://www.crimsonbikes.com/product...kaAjrGEALw_wcB
..etc.
#28
Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,373
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3078 Post(s)
Liked 1,631 Times
in
1,005 Posts
- I said old mtb drop bar conversions aren't good for someone who wants a talk stack and short reach bike.
- You quoted my full post and said my perspective is totally wrong. You then rambled that I am talking about aesthetics and that fit and geometry are not synonymous.
- I reiterate that old mtbs with drop bars are not the ideal setup for someone who wants tall stack and short reach.
- You as if I misquoted you.
Good lord. I was taking a chance replying to a chaadster post and I regret it once again.
- You quoted my full post and said my perspective is totally wrong. You then rambled that I am talking about aesthetics and that fit and geometry are not synonymous.
- I reiterate that old mtbs with drop bars are not the ideal setup for someone who wants tall stack and short reach.
- You as if I misquoted you.
Good lord. I was taking a chance replying to a chaadster post and I regret it once again.
#29
Drip, Drip.
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 1,575
Bikes: Trek Verve E bike, Felt Doctrine 4 XC, Opus Horizon Apex 1
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1034 Post(s)
Liked 193 Times
in
163 Posts
yeah, like I thought, you don’t understand. As I said upthread, I wasn’t talking about vintage MTBs at all, rather your conflation of fit and geometry. I agree with you a vintage MTB is not a great starting point for the OP, ot only because of the geometry tending to be long and low, but because they can get a better bike looking at new stuff. Anyway, hopefully at some point, some of this will sink in for you.
Stop it.
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,772
Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1935 Post(s)
Liked 2,150 Times
in
1,313 Posts
While my Serotta T-Max is an oddity, the original wheelbase was sub 40". Even my '95 Trek 970 has a sub 42" wheelbase. I'm pretty sure that the ETT is shorter on both bikes than what is available today. I can measure them if you'd like?
You can say what you want about vintage mtb's, but long geometry is not is not one of them.
I'm not suggesting one for the OP.
John
#31
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,538
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10902 Post(s)
Liked 7,390 Times
in
4,148 Posts
yeah, like I thought, you don’t understand. As I said upthread, I wasn’t talking about vintage MTBs at all, rather your conflation of fit and geometry. I agree with you a vintage MTB is not a great starting point for the OP, ot only because of the geometry tending to be long and low, but because they can get a better bike looking at new stuff. Anyway, hopefully at some point, some of this will sink in for you.
Again, while I could make a bike with 530mm stack and 365mm reach fit, it would aesthetically look like crap and it isnt necessary to choose such a route when one is looking to buy new.
But its more than just aesthetics. An absurdly long seatpost, a stem extender, and a comically angled stem all make for a bike that will flex more than intended and depending on the frame and component materials, it could just not be designed to safely be ridden in that manner.
I haven't conflated fit and geometry. This is an absurd back and forth that has taken away from the thread's point. Ill stop now.
#32
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ireland
Posts: 42
Bikes: Marin Nicasio
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I ended up going for a different Marin but the four corners was a comfy all rounder
#33
Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,373
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3078 Post(s)
Liked 1,631 Times
in
1,005 Posts
It is true that vintage mountain bikes have a lower bottom bracket than the newer 27.5 bikes. But there is no planet where a 90's mountain bike is longer than a current 27.5.
While my Serotta T-Max is an oddity, the original wheelbase was sub 40". Even my '95 Trek 970 has a sub 42" wheelbase. I'm pretty sure that the ETT is shorter on both bikes than what is available today. I can measure them if you'd like?
You can say what you want about vintage mtb's, but long geometry is not is not one of them.
I'm not suggesting one for the OP.
John
While my Serotta T-Max is an oddity, the original wheelbase was sub 40". Even my '95 Trek 970 has a sub 42" wheelbase. I'm pretty sure that the ETT is shorter on both bikes than what is available today. I can measure them if you'd like?
You can say what you want about vintage mtb's, but long geometry is not is not one of them.
I'm not suggesting one for the OP.
John
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,772
Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1935 Post(s)
Liked 2,150 Times
in
1,313 Posts
Since the discussion went to vintage dropbars I figured your statement that vintage mtbs were long was in relation to something mtb. I "assumed" a non-vintage mtb and thought 27.5 was as close as I could get.
In retrospect, I agree that compared to whatever you were referencing, vintage mtbs are long.
John
#35
Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,373
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3078 Post(s)
Liked 1,631 Times
in
1,005 Posts
My bad.
Since the discussion went to vintage dropbars I figured your statement that vintage mtbs were long was in relation to something mtb. I "assumed" a non-vintage mtb and thought 27.5 was as close as I could get.
In retrospect, I agree that compared to whatever you were referencing, vintage mtbs are long.
John
Since the discussion went to vintage dropbars I figured your statement that vintage mtbs were long was in relation to something mtb. I "assumed" a non-vintage mtb and thought 27.5 was as close as I could get.
In retrospect, I agree that compared to whatever you were referencing, vintage mtbs are long.
John
Likes For chaadster:
#36
Cheerfully low end
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,965
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 642 Post(s)
Liked 1,040 Times
in
663 Posts
https://jonesbikes.com/jones-plus-swb-complete-bicycle/
The handlebar positions end up a bit ( l like about one inch) above saddle height and the grip reach is about even with the steering axis, which was what I accomplished with the RockHopper. I have a Schwinn road frame set up with a similar cockpit.
Here’s a possible Rivendell example, the Sam Hillborne. 650B in smaller sizes and 700C for larger frames. Looks like it clears 48mm tires, if that is big enough for you. The orange example has the same bar shape that I’m using. The Rivendell is more of a vintage style bike with rim brakes, bar end shifters, threaded fork and quill stem. Looks like their inventory is as low as most bike shops today.
https://www.rivbike.com/collections/...hillborne-2020
Otto
Last edited by ofajen; 11-26-20 at 06:05 PM.
#37
Senior Member
I have a 1984 Miyata Ridge Runner outfitted with cruiser bars and a riser quill stem. Been riding it down gravel roads in my area for decades like this. Never have had any trouble with the headset, stem or bars. Body position is fully upright as it is effectively a cruiser. Nothing magical about a "gravel bike" other than it mimics a touring bike in design. Anything can run on dirt roads and two track. Cruisers do it upright! haha
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,682
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked 776 Times
in
402 Posts
When you start out expensive is fine and then you go well not so expensive it ruins things!
If you want a long term bike a custom fit is well worth it. If you are looking at little lower cost you can find some smaller newer builders or do the semi custom route. Co-Motion has excellent bikes which will do great on gravel and aren't too terribly priced. The Deschutes is a neat bike at a pretty low cost considering you are getting a nice steel frame made in 'merica with some decent enough parts no customization like a lot of their other stuff but looks like a good solid comfy choice.
If you want a long term bike a custom fit is well worth it. If you are looking at little lower cost you can find some smaller newer builders or do the semi custom route. Co-Motion has excellent bikes which will do great on gravel and aren't too terribly priced. The Deschutes is a neat bike at a pretty low cost considering you are getting a nice steel frame made in 'merica with some decent enough parts no customization like a lot of their other stuff but looks like a good solid comfy choice.
And also not sure why you would recommend a fluffy botique brand like Deschutes. ‘Neat’ is not a particularly useful adjective when looking for a bike to own for a long time.
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 658
Bikes: Norco search xr
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked 146 Times
in
90 Posts
To the original poster I would check out Rodriguez Bicycles for your exact needs. Let them help you with the relaxed geometry that you need.
Just your size.
Just your size.
Likes For Gconan:
#40
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,278
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4252 Post(s)
Liked 3,866 Times
in
2,579 Posts
$3,000 is certainly well above the ‘not so expensive’ category so not sure where you are going with that?
And also not sure why you would recommend a fluffy botique brand like Deschutes. ‘Neat’ is not a particularly useful adjective when looking for a bike to own for a long time.
And also not sure why you would recommend a fluffy botique brand like Deschutes. ‘Neat’ is not a particularly useful adjective when looking for a bike to own for a long time.
Deschutes is not a brand, Co-Motion is the brand and if you are calling them "fluffy" you must be sorely mistaken! I guess they do have a good niche in touring and tandems of quality but I guess yes they are a small shop and they make really fine quality frames so sure boutique whatever.
The OP should buy a Trek everyone has a Trek it is not boutique don't bother looking for quality
Likes For veganbikes:
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,772
Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1935 Post(s)
Liked 2,150 Times
in
1,313 Posts
To the original poster I would check out Rodriguez Bicycles for your exact needs. Let them help you with the relaxed geometry that you need.
Just your size.
Just your size.
John
Likes For 70sSanO:
#42
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
The OP scoffed at someone suggesting some a little more expensive when he said expensive is fine.
Deschutes is not a brand, Co-Motion is the brand and if you are calling them "fluffy" you must be sorely mistaken! I guess they do have a good niche in touring and tandems of quality but I guess yes they are a small shop and they make really fine quality frames so sure boutique whatever.
The OP should buy a Trek everyone has a Trek it is not boutique don't bother looking for quality
Deschutes is not a brand, Co-Motion is the brand and if you are calling them "fluffy" you must be sorely mistaken! I guess they do have a good niche in touring and tandems of quality but I guess yes they are a small shop and they make really fine quality frames so sure boutique whatever.
The OP should buy a Trek everyone has a Trek it is not boutique don't bother looking for quality
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,772
Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1935 Post(s)
Liked 2,150 Times
in
1,313 Posts
I didn't see it mentioned, if you alreaday mentioned it I apologize, but exactly where is the height of your bars in comparison to the saddle on your Specialized Roubaix?
Proper saddle location fore/aft, height, tilt is the starting point, but have you found a comfortable location for your bars on your current bike?
You might want to find that sweet spot, either by steeper upright stem or steerer extender so you know where the bars on the new bike need to be. I'm not advocating it as a solution, but more upright is different for each person. Until you find that comfort location everything is just a guess.
John
Proper saddle location fore/aft, height, tilt is the starting point, but have you found a comfortable location for your bars on your current bike?
You might want to find that sweet spot, either by steeper upright stem or steerer extender so you know where the bars on the new bike need to be. I'm not advocating it as a solution, but more upright is different for each person. Until you find that comfort location everything is just a guess.
John
#44
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I didn't see it mentioned, if you alreaday mentioned it I apologize, but exactly where is the height of your bars in comparison to the saddle on your Specialized Roubaix?
Proper saddle location fore/aft, height, tilt is the starting point, but have you found a comfortable location for your bars on your current bike?
You might want to find that sweet spot, either by steeper upright stem or steerer extender so you know where the bars on the new bike need to be. I'm not advocating it as a solution, but more upright is different for each person. Until you find that comfort location everything is just a guess.
John
Proper saddle location fore/aft, height, tilt is the starting point, but have you found a comfortable location for your bars on your current bike?
You might want to find that sweet spot, either by steeper upright stem or steerer extender so you know where the bars on the new bike need to be. I'm not advocating it as a solution, but more upright is different for each person. Until you find that comfort location everything is just a guess.
John
#45
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Thanks to everyone for the advice, I’m ready everything and adding options to my list.
Anyone think I’m being silly by restricting my choices to steel? I understand aluminum to be a bumpier ride, from personal experience and reading. Titanium is going to be a little expensive for this type of bike. That leaves carbon, but frankly I don’t want another carbon bike. I’m a little concerned about its longevity, and especially about using a steel U-Lock with a carbon frame. If someone yanks on it, I think it’d screw up the frame, possibly.
Anyone think I’m being silly by restricting my choices to steel? I understand aluminum to be a bumpier ride, from personal experience and reading. Titanium is going to be a little expensive for this type of bike. That leaves carbon, but frankly I don’t want another carbon bike. I’m a little concerned about its longevity, and especially about using a steel U-Lock with a carbon frame. If someone yanks on it, I think it’d screw up the frame, possibly.
#46
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,538
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10902 Post(s)
Liked 7,390 Times
in
4,148 Posts
Thanks to everyone for the advice, I’m ready everything and adding options to my list.
Anyone think I’m being silly by restricting my choices to steel? I understand aluminum to be a bumpier ride, from personal experience and reading. Titanium is going to be a little expensive for this type of bike. That leaves carbon, but frankly I don’t want another carbon bike. I’m a little concerned about its longevity, and especially about using a steel U-Lock with a carbon frame. If someone yanks on it, I think it’d screw up the frame, possibly.
Anyone think I’m being silly by restricting my choices to steel? I understand aluminum to be a bumpier ride, from personal experience and reading. Titanium is going to be a little expensive for this type of bike. That leaves carbon, but frankly I don’t want another carbon bike. I’m a little concerned about its longevity, and especially about using a steel U-Lock with a carbon frame. If someone yanks on it, I think it’d screw up the frame, possibly.
Steel or aluminum will be fine if it fits and you can get some wider tires set up. All my bikes are steel- there is nothing magical about it. Whats important is frame geometry and tire choice when it comes to feel.
A 43mm tire will mute a whole lot of bumps when pumped to 35psi. It will effectively eliminate any difference between a steel frame with carbon fork and aluminum frame with carbon fork, assuming both materials are on bikes with the same geometry.
That may not be popular to say, but it isnt wrong.
#47
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
if you are riding this thing to get donuts, as you've mentioned a couple times, then just get something that's comfortable for geometry and can fit a wide tire.
Steel or aluminum will be fine if it fits and you can get some wider tires set up. All my bikes are steel- there is nothing magical about it. Whats important is frame geometry and tire choice when it comes to feel.
A 43mm tire will mute a whole lot of bumps when pumped to 35psi. It will effectively eliminate any difference between a steel frame with carbon fork and aluminum frame with carbon fork, assuming both materials are on bikes with the same geometry.
That may not be popular to say, but it isnt wrong.
Steel or aluminum will be fine if it fits and you can get some wider tires set up. All my bikes are steel- there is nothing magical about it. Whats important is frame geometry and tire choice when it comes to feel.
A 43mm tire will mute a whole lot of bumps when pumped to 35psi. It will effectively eliminate any difference between a steel frame with carbon fork and aluminum frame with carbon fork, assuming both materials are on bikes with the same geometry.
That may not be popular to say, but it isnt wrong.
Good advice, thanks.
And I might even just get an aluminum mountain bike and put skinnier tires on it. I don’t have a mountain bike, but I actually do have access to private land with trails. So that could be fun.
#48
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,278
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4252 Post(s)
Liked 3,866 Times
in
2,579 Posts
I should have been more clear. Expensive is fine, but I suppose I was using that term relatively. Since this is a bump around town and fitness bike, I think $4k is pretty expensive. I’d just feel weird riding around to get donuts and stuff on a $9000 moots frame, or similar.
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,390
Bikes: Too many to list
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1764 Post(s)
Liked 1,120 Times
in
744 Posts
yep- long and low. My 1995 Marin Team came with a 23.5” top tube and a 135 stem - In a size medium (about 17:5” )”. Definitely long for size. Some of these bikes like mine would just look wrong with a drop bar conversion
true cross country racing geometry dominated the high end market starting in about 91 or 92 and i dont know when that started fizzling out
Last edited by DMC707; 11-29-20 at 08:10 AM.
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 839
Bikes: Casati Laser, Colnago Tecnos, Ciöcc Exige, Black Mountain Cycles Road
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked 177 Times
in
78 Posts
I'm happy to put in a plug for Black Mountain Cycles. Something like the Road+ would seem to fit the OP's needs. Frames are well thought out, quality is good, and Mike Varley is easy to work with.
I have their Road model (now discontinued) and it's the most comfortable bike I own.
I have their Road model (now discontinued) and it's the most comfortable bike I own.
Likes For Oldguyonoldbike: