mlam86

Hey guys,

Looking into getting my first tri-bike, Argon 18 E-112/Quintana Roo Seduza/ Kuota Kaliber

i've been riding a hand me down from my brother...Felt S32

just wanted to get some opinions on the three bikes listed above...and which one would you lean towards?

Thanks!
-Marco

CoreMS

Well I have never ridden the Argon or the QR, but I have a Kuota Kaliber and absolutely love it. It's a great bike.....did IM Wisconsin on it last season.

celerystalksme

what's wrong with your felt s32?

mlam86

^^^
i'm just not liking the feel of the bike anymore

and i'd like to go with a lighter weight bike

kmkurdone

I own the Seduza....this isn't going to help much, but I LOVE it. I have never been on any of the other bikes you listed, so I can't really give you a comparison. Sorry.

celerystalksme

how heavy is the bike? tri-bikes are not light. the specialized s-works transitiion is 19 lbs...p2c, p3c, felt da, felt b2, and other highly regarded bikes are also typically beween 18-20 lbs.

but if you just don't like the FEEL of the bike? well...feel is VERY subjective...i would have to say you need to go and try out all three bikes...and then some!

The_Spaniard

i wish i could be having to make that decision hahhaa. I hear good things of the argon 18's. i hope to buy a mercury some time int he near future, maybe even a e-112 if i have enough money or some how have a better paying job later this year.

Triguy

In this the time of cad, flow viz and wind tunnel testing we no longer need to buy bikes based on looks or other moot points. We have data, we know what makes a difference in speed. We can look up the exact stack and reach of bikes, so fit has become a mere question of style and size. It's a matter of affixing your two points(saddle and elbow pads) in relation to one point(bottom bracket). Yet despite the obviousness of bike shopping, I still see constant questions of a vs. b vs. c.

First, let me explain myself when looking at bike companies, those who are proven and can explain themselves are given more credit than those who are entering with something new, no matter how good their story and explanation.

So lets start there. I started by saying that we can now(in 2008) depend upon manufacturers to do their homework aerodynamically speaking when designing bikes. They can't just design a bike, go to a tunnel, take some pictures and tell us it's fast(Kestrel anyone??). So what can we do as consumers to verify the claims of these manufacturers? Well, first off, we know that aerodynamics is a factor of frontal area and coefficient of drag. CdA. So we can start with small frontal area = narrow downtubes and headtubes. In general if you can find a bike with a sub 30mm downtube, you're on the right track. This takes the Kaliber off the list, its got a big ole fat downtube. But we can also pay attention to what manufacturers are saying, I'd say it's no coincidence that Felt, Trek and Cervelo all are realeasing numbers showing their bikes perform similarly.

Secondly, being proven. Read my post about the lucero mold on the other which bike thread. It's an old design in the world of carbon triathlon bikes. It's proven, but it doesn't have any of the research that its other contemporaries have. 4 years ago a carbon tri bike with a cutout was all you needed to sell bikes, you didn't need good tube shapes, wind tunnel time, or CFD. The Lucero/seduza isn't actually all that bad aerodynamically speaking. It's downtube is pretty thin and they fixed up the fork. OF YOUR LIST, I guess I'd go with the Seduza. However, I have heard that QUintana Roo is jumping on the technology bandwagon.

Finally, the argon. I've heard from a guy who heard from a guy that it isn't aerodynamic (yeah, it doesn't mean much). It took Argon 18 an extra 3-4 months to get it on the market, and the integrated front end isn't a totally proven system. I'm too much of a curmudgeon to pay more than a P2C for an unproven design.

I know I'm boring and I am preaching this big old world of conformity but some bike manufacturers are building bikes the right way, some are building the wrong way, and some are relying on old tetchnology. Here are my suggestions...

Trekk TTX
Cervelo P2C / P3C
Felt B12 / B2 / DA

These should cover the fit needs of 90% of body types. They are proven fast. Cervelo's numbers show them as fast, Felt representatives agree those are fast bikes, and their tube diameters and headtubes add up.

We can talk stiffness, weight, looks, components, compliance and anything else you want. None of it will have 1/10 the effect that fit and aerodynamics have.

By the way, I punched in some numbers on analyticcycling.com and if I lost about 5kg(12!!! thats a lot for a guy who weighs 138 pounds), I'd go maybe 2.5 minutes faster in an Ironman, the decrease in drag of a good frame over an average one is about twice that much.

SO there we have it.

You have a pretty solid frame. None of the bikes you are considering would certainly make you faster.

If you want to get faster do the simple stuff (hen the harder stuff)...

pre emptive. POWERTap, improve your training. I realize this about as fun as recommending the same three bikes. SO here is the gear to getting faster.

1. Tight clothing
2. Fast tires (michelin pro 3 races, veloflec, vittoria evo corsa cx)
3. Aero Helmet
4. Aero wheels
5. Aero basebar

mlam86

celery - feel as in, i'm not liking the comfort in the ride...i believe the ride quality has been getting worse

triguy - tri guy, that is like the longest and the most useful reply i have ever read! thank-you for the input and i'll look into cervelos and maybe the mid/high end felts

Triguy

mlam - You are welcome. I agree with Celery as well. Ride as many as you can before you purchase.

uncle_evan

after a proper bike fit i had 3 bikes to chose from..... Felt B12, Kuota Kaliber and the Argon 18 E-112, the Argon18 was within fractions of what i was sized for, so thats what i opted for. Didnt hurt that the white really stood out on the E-112 or that i got a killer deal on the bike with many upgrades, but mostly the bike fit me right and that was most important.

Triguy

uncle evan, your right the white on the 112 does look pretty cool. Fit is a big factor in biking; enjoying your bike goes a long way in the grand equation of things.

How about some pictures of your bike?

uncle_evan

bike is yet to be picked up....... hopefully next week. im still in shock over the deal i got, but exicited to get back on the bars!

The_Spaniard

what deal did you get??

itri-45

You should find out which style of riding you prefer, steep or slack. Many people make the mistake of going with the Cervelos (b/c they are most popular and fast) and then find out that they cannot ride comfortably in the steep and agressive position the bike is designed for.

A frame that provides a balance of comfort, power output and aerodynamics will make you faster than just any fast frames.

uncle_evan

original bike was $3,299 with standard equipment and no pedals, i paid $3599 cdn for the bike with the following upgrades : profile tristryke saddle, fulcrum racing 5 wheels, hutchinson fusion tires, FSA carbon TT crank, ultegra front, dura ace rear, FSA gossomer brakes, ultegra 10 spd cassette, arundel carbon bottle holder, look keo sprint pedals...