EamonX1

Am 74 year old pensioner who has had an Raleigh bicycle for least also 50 years. Recently the Sturmey Archer 3-speed gave up on my. When repairing I have come up with the following problem.

I fitted a Sturmey Archer AW 3 Speed Hub 36 Hole 1985 Vintage to the bike. I tested the 3-speed before attaching the cable and find that the indicator chain works perfectly (I am extracting the indicator chain directly). However having attached the indicator chain to the cable connector and adjusted the cable correctly, I find that chain get stuck on the edge of the 3-speed wheel nut. A length of the indicator-chain does emerge from the wheel nut, but only sufficient to change 2 gears. It does not emerge sufficiently to operate 3 gears. It is stuck half-way out.

Any ideas for solving this? is there an indicator chain which will operate more smoothly as it is pulled through the wheel-nut top edge.

fietsbob

Might try a new one ? ( NB; the steel shaft comes in different lengths) for the 5 speed they have a roller for the chain to bend around rarher than the flared nut

You open the hub up and service the core out of the hub... ?

My 2nd and 3rd SA hubs have been in Bromptons 94 AW3 steel trigger was harder to use than the post UK bankruptcy bail y out Sun Race SA BSR still the same 3/4, 4/3 gears


Over to you Dan ...

Dan Burkhart 

Sounds like the indicator is too long. if the end of the spindle reaches the end of the guide nut before it's pulled all the way out, the chain won't pull it out any further. This can sometimes be rectified with a spacer or washer under the guide nut provided there is enough axle protruding for the guide nut to have adequate thread engagement.
Also, ensure the indicator is not threaded in tight. When threading it in to the stop, back off at least a half turn or the chain can bind. That may also be the source of the problem.
If neither of those things fixes the problem, check the model and axle length and consult the indicator compatibility chart here. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey...ndicators.html

Gresp15C

One idea is to disconnect the cable and try to run the hub by pulling on the chain by hand. This might give you a better feel for where it's getting hung up, and also, eliminate the cable from the situation until you solve the hub problem.

Andrew R Stewart 

OEM SA indicator chains (or at least the English made ones) have links with a finer pitch between the pivot pins. Many cheap replacements (that are likely Asian made) have longer pitches. Why is this possibly an issue? because the larger pitches can hang up on the lip of the outer guide nut at the axle's end. The OEM indicators run smoother with less "catchiness". I also believe the guide nut/sleeve has a rounder shape to the entryway compared to more modern ones. So my first thought is to "borrow" the indicator and guide sleeve off the old wheel and install them on the new and see what happens. Andy

EamonX1

(Dan Burchard ) Just to reply. The indicator chain I am using is STURMEY ARCHER INDICATOR CHAIN SPINDLE HSA 125 126 315 316 420 615 715 716 BIKE HUB Vintage.
I dont have enough space on axle to add a space before the Guide Nut. So I would need a shorter indicator chain. If so what size (model) should I be looking for?

(Gresp 15C suggested I disconnect cable and pull chain by hand) to better locate the fault) I did this. When I disconnect the cable and pull the indicator chain directly, it comes out fully without problem and pops back when i let it go. It is only when connected to the cable that it catches on the lip of the guide nut.

(Andrew Steward made comment about the quality of the indicator) Well I bought the indicator chain on Ebay and it might well be an inferior one. So can indicate a better model and I will get it.

Dan Burkhart 

You have listed 8 distinctly different indicators here all of differing lengths. I suggest you go back to link I provided previously and determine which hub you have by model and axle length and find the corresponding indicator. eg, model AW with 5 3/4" axle uses HSA125 (Mark 1)

3alarmer 

...are you certain that the hanging up is because of the indicator chain hanging up on the nut ? I can think of several spots that can cause this sort of fault. The trigger shifter is one place. it needs to release freely into the fully extended position that gives you high gear. Anywhere along the cable run it can hang up, but if your spring is OK inside the hub, even if it hangs up the thing ought eventually to drop into high gear with enough back pedaling.

The 1985 hubs are probably of slightly lower quality than the older ones were, because by then the tooling and machinery to produce them had a lot of wear, and the guys who owned the place at the time were not investing a whole lot in retooling. So sometimes some of the internals from the newer hubs are a little rough. But if you can operate it manually with a straight pull by hand, that's probably not your issue.If you haven't already tried lubrication on the chain and nut where they intersect, you might want to try that as well.

If it turns out the shifter is sticking, there are some newer 3 speed Sturmey Archer shifters (one is a bar end, the other like a MTB shifter) that are now made and sold by the current, Asian SA people. They work very well for me.

EamonX1

(Dan Burchart) Sorry not to acknowledge the link you gave me re indicator compatibility chart. I had intended to thank you but somehow managed to post before I had completed what I wanted to say. Anyway I will get down to determining the hub model and axle length.

EamonX1

Checked the compatibility chart and found I have the wrong indicator chain for the hub. I need the HSA 125 (as you said above). So I'll get that and I will let you know if it works. Thanks so much.

Dan Burkhart 

OK, there ya go. If you have difficulty finding that indicator let me know. I can supply it.

EamonX1

Just to let you all know that I bought the indicator chain and it worked perfectly. I am back cycling again. Thank you for your help on this one. Just one slight problem, but I can live with it. I can only engage two gears, the top and the bottom gear. The indicator chain extracts fully so it must be a problem with the hub. I'm not surprised because it is a vintage hub which I purchased on Ebay. The two important gears are on it for me.
This is a great forum.

fietsbob

AW3 parts are still available.... if you want to try overhauling it ..

2nd is the 1:1 gear.. cog and hubshell turn at same rate.. ...

dweenk

If second gear is not working (by not working, I assume you mean freewheeling) it may just be a cable adjustment issue.

fietsbob

If so , That's a not quite in 2nd gear issue.. [Dan's You Tube Channel has a video of showing that in a stripped down mode ]

Dan Burkhart 

Most likely correct. Sounds like the classic in between gear, or false neutral. It happens when the star clutch leaves engagement with the ring gear, but does not quite engage the planet pinions. That is the flaw that the NIG model was designed to address.
Meanwhile, as suggested above, a cable adjustment will most likely solve the problem. I don't adjust 3 speed SAs by any indicator markings. Rather, adjust so that with the shifter in first gear, the indicator chain is almost taut with only the slightest amount of chain motion possible by pulling on it while ensuring that the cable is completely slack with the shifter in 3rd gear position.

dweenk

@EamonX1
Dan Burkhart is the expert on this issue. I think you you have 3 gears.

GamblerGORD53

It also won't work proper if the plastic spring cap is missing. This happened to me when I bought an old bike.
Lucky for me the cap is the same as on the SA 5w, that I had with spares.
But anyway, I changed the whole wheel and got the new infallible drum brake hub. After the first winter, I took it apart and changed the lube to oil with grease on the bearings. Zoooom Quiet as a mouse!!!

Random Tandem

It sounds like everyone with Sturmey Archer experience is saying the same thing - if you have both high (when the cable is slack) and low (when the pin is almost fully pulled tight) working and the middle setting is freewheeling, that is usually a sign that the cable tension needs to be adjusted. When I have this experience, I slowly increase the cable tension by one-half turn (on the threaded cable connector) until the gear engages when the trigger is set at 2. When that is done, check to be sure you can still get the trigger to the 1 position, and that the 3 position has the cable slack. If this does not work (and it always has for me), the only thing I can think of is broken (or missing) pawls that engage the ball ring to the driver in position 2. Good luck, the Sturmey Archer hubs are remarkably durable, but a little finicky for this adjustment.

-Will

Dan Burkhart 

A 1985 AW has a star clutch, it does not have pawls on the driver. That came later with the NIG version. Broken or missing pawls on the driver of a NIG version would mean both 1st and 2nd would be non functional.

EamonX1

Thanks for all the information on this. Most appreciated. Am away from my bike for the next ten days, but after that will look at it and get back to you all.