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Driving on the Shoulder?

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Driving on the Shoulder?

Old 03-13-21, 10:59 AM
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UniChris
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Driving on the Shoulder?

Came out of a series of winding roads the other day onto a bit of state highway I'd ridden last year, and expected to be fine as I remembered it had a great shoulder and shows up on some route recommendations (I'm talking about the kind of road that is 50 mph or so, but has stoplights a few miles in between, not limited access like an interstate)

Only as I get going on it, I start thinking "this shoulder is so big, it really feels like a lane" And then I notice the solid white line is faded nearly to the point of invisibility. I start to pay more attention to my mirror, and wouldn't you know it, soon enough I spot a minivan in the shoulder.

Granted they were well behind me, and they seemed to be trying to merge left.

(I don't even know for absolute certain that they were actually moving vs someone who had pulled over)

But now I'm worried, because with the width and faded paint if at cycling speed I could think "this feels like a lane" even relatively attentive drivers could too.

Not regretting my garish color choices one bit - though all in all that route didn't have much to recommend it over my usual one in that direction.

(And yes, I'm aware of a unique limited-access highway or two where driving on the shoulder is officially authorized at some hours; this was not a case of that; similarly there's a hill I rode down that has great shoulders, except that in the uphill direction the shoulder official becomes the truck climbing lane for a while, which quickly put it on my "no go" list not that the climb would not have done that by itself)

Last edited by UniChris; 03-13-21 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 03-14-21, 08:23 AM
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Fresh lane marker paint won't stop some people from driving on the shoulder. They may have an actual emergency of some sort, or a medical condition, or maybe they just feel they have an emergency, or they're just selfish jerks. Even a raised curb won't keep a vehicle out of a bike lane or off a sidewalk in the case of an emergency or poor judgement.

HI-vis clothing and lights should help, but are not a panacea.

When riding in familiar surroundings it's easier to learn and remember dangerous stretches of road and unique safety challenges. But when riding new streets in unfamiliar places, staying safe can be bigger challenge.

BTW, Kudos on using a mirror, which I assume in your case is not bar-mounted.
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Old 03-14-21, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by BobbyG
Fresh lane marker paint won't stop some people from driving on the shoulder.
A "do not enter" sign does not stop people from driving up highway off ramps, but a solid white line would be an ongoing clue that you're not supposed to use the shoulder as a travel lane.

That it was missing is part of why the shoulder "felt" like a travel lane.

Really the only ongoing evidence that it wasn't one was my memory of the road configuration, and the social factor of there being a lot of cars in the "left" lane but (almost) none in the shoulder.
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Old 03-14-21, 12:08 PM
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Some feel more comfortable riding in the shoulder, but I don't and won't. Shoulders tend to disappear when you need them the most. Particularly at bridges. So they force you back in the traffic lane. That car behind you might be expecting you are going to stop and look back before you get in the traffic lane to cross a bridge. Might be wrong of them to expect that, but just as wrong IMO for you to be riding on the shoulder. Shoulders are for stopped traffic.

When I'm in the traffic lane, I think the traffic behind me more fully understands my intentions.
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Old 03-14-21, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Some feel more comfortable riding in the shoulder, but I don't and won't. Shoulders tend to disappear when you need them the most. Particularly at bridges. So they force you back in the traffic lane. That car behind you might be expecting you are going to stop and look back before you get in the traffic lane to cross a bridge. Might be wrong of them to expect that, but just as wrong IMO for you to be riding on the shoulder. Shoulders are for stopped traffic.

When I'm in the traffic lane, I think the traffic behind me more fully understands my intentions.
When would it EVER be appropriate or safe for a cyclist or motorist (moving or stopped) to enter a traffic lane from a shoulder or an adjacent traffic lane without first looking back for approaching traffic to be sure that it is safe to do so? Whether approaching motorists expect the rider to stop or not is irrelevant.

No one is FORCED to change lanes without looking in front of moving and conflicting traffic.

Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 03-14-21 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 03-14-21, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
When would it EVER be appropriate or safe for a cyclist or motorist (moving or stopped) to enter a traffic lane from a shoulder or an adjacent traffic lane without first looking back for approaching traffic to be sure that it is safe to do so? Whether approaching motorists expect the rider to stop or not is irrelevant.

No one is FORCED to change lanes without looking in front of moving and conflicting traffic.
If the motorist is expecting one thing and something else happens, then who knows what might happen. I wasn't discussing who'd be responsible.

It'd be great if we all looked before we did something or always chose the safest solution to things presented to us as we cycle or drive. But we aren't always going to. We all have lapses of judgement. Thankfully I'm still living after mine, nor have I harmed any because of my lapses.
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Old 03-14-21, 03:21 PM
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Whether you are on the shoulder or not, or others perceive it to be a shoulder or not is irrelevant. All you can do is be hyper vigilant and try to have a bail out plan when riding in traffic. 'Safe' cycling in traffic is a fading expectation. We live in a world of ever increasing chaos and anarchy. Increasing selfishness and lack of concern for others. What this means to cyclists are the following:

1. Even if a motorist absolutely knows it's a shoulder it won't stop them from driving long distances on it for any number of reasons that would be considered illegal if actually stopped by a patrolman.
2. Just as often they will drive long distances down a center turn lane.
3. They will not stop and often not even slow down for stop signs even in residential areas.
4. They are more addicted to their phone than any opioid ever invented.
a. They will obliviously drift across lanes until they hit something or snap out of it over correcting in the opposite direction.
b. They will run head on into stopped traffic or a cyclist proceeding too slowly.
5. More and more even stop LIGHTS are being treated as a suggestion.
6. It's a waste of tax payer money that speed limit signs are even manufactured any more. 99% of people speed. 90% of people don't get pulled over. Of that ones that do 9% pay their way out of it through sham traffic law businesses. Only 1% really get punished either due to poverty and/or race. Even in accidents involving impairment and death you already know how things are going to turn out based on the lawyer you see they retained in newspaper.
7. Slowing a motorist down for even a moment can result in a vigilante death sentence. They will gun for your back wheel, fail to fully change lanes because they want to intimidate you by passing too close. I'm not talking about squeezing you because the left lane is taken. I'm talking not another car in sight, but it's just too damn inconvenient to move the wheel 1 or 2 degrees more. It's like they are thinking god dammit you piece of ****, you have no right to go slow enough I have to make a lane change. Likely because you caused then to stop texting or watching video, or playing video games. Yes I've seen people doing all those things while driving. I've had one incident where driver took it far enough, that I'm certain he would have hit me if I hadn't bailed into drainage ditch. Pickup truck pulled alongside and took a hard swerve at me to the edge of pavement. It was a twisty semi-residential uphill along a park. They got pissed it took so long to find a passing opportunity.
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Old 03-14-21, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
just as wrong IMO for you to be riding on the shoulder.

When I'm in the traffic lane, I think the traffic behind me more fully understands my intentions.
I have to assume you misunderstood the nature of the road.

I can assure you, you would have received (and fully deserved) an extremely negative reaction had you tried to ride those several miles in the travel lane, rather than the lane-wide shoulder of this road with fast and continuous traffic in both directions.

There is zero question that the lane-like shoulder was the only viable way to ride this route: the title of the thread was not "riding on the shoulder" but rather "driving on the shoulder"

Last edited by UniChris; 03-14-21 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 03-15-21, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by UniChris


I have to assume you misunderstood the nature of the road.

I can assure you, you would have received (and fully deserved) an extremely negative reaction had you tried to ride those several miles in the travel lane, rather than the lane-wide shoulder of this road with fast and continuous traffic in both directions.

There is zero question that the lane-like shoulder was the only viable way to ride this route: the title of the thread was not "riding on the shoulder" but rather "driving on the shoulder"
If the road isn't safe for me to ride in the traffic lanes, then I will not be riding my bike on that road. I'd find another route.
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Old 03-15-21, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
If the road isn't safe for me to ride in the traffic lanes, then I will not be riding my bike on that road. I'd find another route.
I'm going to stand by my earlier belief that you simply don't understand the nature of the road, which has two full-lane equivalents in each direction, the left ones chock full of effectively continuous high speed traffic such that passing is impossible, and the right ones continuous for several miles but empty and not designated for travel except by slow moving vehicles like farm implements and... cyclists.

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Old 03-15-21, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by UniChris
I'm going to stand by my earlier belief that you simply don't understand the nature of the road, which has two full-lane equivalents in each direction, the left ones chock full of effectively continuous high speed traffic such that passing is impossible, and the right ones empty and not designated for travel except by slow moving vehicles like farm implements and... cyclists.
My first reply and all my other replies in this thread were not addressing the specific situation you described in your OP.

However what I said is still what I believe. If the road it too dangerous to ride on, then you shouldn't ride on any part of it.

That you had one crazy driver try to pass you on what you said was the shoulder will not necessarily make it an unsafe road to me. I've no way to judge that for myself. And usually I'm the final decision as to where I ride.
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Old 03-15-21, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
My first reply and all my other replies in this thread were not addressing the specific situation you described in your OP.
Indeed, you seem to be going off on some unrelated tangent - the topic of this thread is driving on the shoulder, not cycling on it.

That you had one crazy driver try to pass you on what you said was the shoulder
That's neither what I said nor what happened.

What happened was that while appropriately riding the spacious lane-like paved shoulder / breakdown lane of what is considered a standard cycling route, I worried that it felt too lane-like and that a driver might try to use it as one. And then I saw in my mirror a mini-van positioned in that lane, maybe 100 yards back of me, and seemingly trying to merge left into the travel lane as it didn't appear to get any closer. A little mirror only shows presence rather than movement of objects at a distance, so I can't know if it was ever actually travelling in that lane, or if it had simply pulled over and was pulling back into traffic - really the only way I even could see that it was on the shoulder was the fact that it was out of the line of other vehicles. But it never tried to pass me, until it was in the designated traffic lane and indistinguishable from the steady flow of vehicles there.

If it had at some point been travelling in that lane, then apart from any initial violation or error in doing so this was not a "crazy" driver but rather one pro-actively scanning far ahead and reacting to what they saw.

Last edited by UniChris; 03-15-21 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 03-19-21, 06:55 PM
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There are no part-time shoulder use as travel lanes in Massachusetts where pedestrians, bicyclists or horses are permitted. (Although in practice horses can’t read the no horses sign.)

WHAT road are you talking about?

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Old 03-19-21, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill
There are no part-time shoulder use as travel lanes in Massachusetts where pedestrians, bicyclists or horses are permitted
Indeed, cyclists aren't permitted on route 128 - but way back in the original post I already explained that this was not such a limited access highway.

The road in question doesn't permit ordinary vehicles moving at traffic speeds to use the shoulder at all - nor was I implying that anyone who did so would be doing so legally.

My concern was the degree to which the shoulder felt like a travel lane, leading to the concern that someone might innocently mistake it for one.

Or get inspired by 128 and try to do the same thing, even where they knew it wasn't allowed.

Last edited by UniChris; 03-19-21 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 03-20-21, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by UniChris
I'm going to stand by my earlier belief that you simply don't understand the nature of the road,

I have found that it's useful to show people roads in these kind of threads. It probably has a satellite and a street view.
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Old 03-20-21, 08:50 AM
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