Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

chain oil

Old 07-31-09, 10:36 PM
  #1  
coolkid_cody
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 136

Bikes: Surly Steamroller, Schwinn Continental II

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
chain oil

So I had to clean/ degrease my chain after being caught in the pouring rain a few times since it got a bunch of sand and grit in it. In my home I only have WD40 which I heard was terrible to lube your chain with and som Singer Machine Oil that my mom had for her sewing machine. it says on the bottle its all purpose and can be used for bicycle gears. I have a single speed and was wondering if this sounds legit to use on my bike. I had 0 dollars to buy oil at the shop.
coolkid_cody is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 02:00 AM
  #2  
illwafer
)) <> ((
 
illwafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,411
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
go for it.
illwafer is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 02:13 AM
  #3  
Proofide
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
The Singer stuff gets my vote over the WD-40! Here, I use multigrade engine oil, just like I use in the car. I know it drips for a few days, and attracts dirt while riding, but the remedy for that is to use a chain with a "missing link," which you can remove and clean in kerosene periodically, before replacing and re-oiling. I used to soak the whole chain in oil, then hang it up until it stopped dripping. Now, I put it back and turn the pedals backwards while applying the oil to each link with a drip can. Capillary action draws it into each roller (hopefully). There are all these wonderful modern clean, dry chain lubes out there (at a price). I tried one in 1982, and it took the brand new paint off the chainstay of a bike I'd just rebuilt.
Proofide is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 02:59 AM
  #4  
Panthers007
Great State of Varmint
 
Panthers007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dante's Third Ring
Posts: 7,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Use a high-end oil - such as Boeing T-9. This penetrates the chain and leaves behind some wax. One drop = one-link.
Panthers007 is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 03:13 AM
  #5  
linux_author
370H-SSV-0773H
 
linux_author's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Penniless Park, Fla.
Posts: 2,750

Bikes: Merlin Fortius, Specialized Crossroads & Rockhopper, Serotta Fierte, Pedal Force RS2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
WD40 is a compendium of oils and other substances... i have a regular lunch meeting with a bunch of retirees, including several machinists and engineers from Honeywell...

one of 'em once ran a sample of WD40 through a chromatography system and found out that one of the ingredients was beeswax... WD40 is best used for light cleaning and water displacement, IMO

the Singer oil would work - but your Mom might get ticked if you use it all up on a single oiling... expensive way to lube your chain!

:-)

a cheaper alternative would be to use some engine oil (from the car, lawnmower, or weed whacker)...

generally, i use kerosene for cleaning (decant and reuse after settling), which can be obtained cheaply enough in the Coleman blue plastic camping containers, and Prolink (the wax-based bike chain lubes don't work for me as it's kind of sandy here)

JMHO, YMMV
linux_author is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 07:29 AM
  #6  
DaveSSS 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,215

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1091 Post(s)
Liked 555 Times in 444 Posts
A common and very cheap homebrew lube is 3-4 parts mineral spirits (oil base paint thinner) to one part motor oil, transmission fluid or 80/90W gear lube.

Using straight oil leaves too much oil inside the chain and it just oozes out over the course of the first 100 miles or so. Wiping the chain after every ride will reduce the mess.

WD-40 is okay in a pinch, but if used regularly it will greatly shorten the chain life. I did a real-world test using WD-40 for most of the first 1500 miles on a Campy 11 chain and got far more elongation than I ever would with my regular homebrew lube. A Campy chain will normally show almost no elongation in 1500 miles, if a high quality lube is applied every 100-150 miles.
DaveSSS is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 07:32 AM
  #7  
neil0502
My bike's better than me!
 
neil0502's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 2,041

Bikes: (2) Moots Vamoots, (1) Cannondale T2000 tourer, (1) Diamondback Response Comp mtb

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by DaveSSS
WD-40 is okay in a pinch, but if used regularly it will greatly shorten the chain life. I did a real-world test using WD-40 for most of the first 1500 miles on a Campy 11 chain and got far more elongation than I ever would with my regular homebrew lube.
Wait.

I know you're an ME (right?), so I value your opinion, but ...

Lemme' re-phrase, and please tell me if I read you right. I hear you saying what I always say: it's a lube, but there are better lubes for nearly any bike-application. It WILL provide reduced wear relative to NOT using any lube, but most basic lubricants (including home brew) will provide BETTER lubrication.

Is that a fair characterization?
neil0502 is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 08:48 AM
  #8  
froze
Banned.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 4,761

Bikes: 84 Trek 660 Suntour Superbe; 87 Giant Rincon Shimano XT; 07 Mercian Vincitore Campy Veloce

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
This is the poor man's method, or the method to use if nothing else is available.

I would use the WD40 to CLEAN the chain but not to lube it. Flush out the grit with it then with a clean rag wipe off the excess, as you do this pay special attention to the recessed links that tend to be dirtier and are a little harder to get at. As you finish a section on the chainring, turn the crank and repeat on the next one until all links are shining again. Next, clean the chain's rollers. Hold the rag on the lower run of chain and turn the crank backwards. Squeeze the rag vertically so it presses against the rollers and wipes them clean as the links pass through. Note: If the chain is quite dirty this might require a couple of passes or even a couple of WD40 applications. Keep using clean rags or you will just put the grit on the cloth back onto the chain.

Once the chain is sparkling you'll want to tidy up the chainrings, rear derailleur pulleys and any mess on the frame. Wet a clean rag with a little alcohol or WD-40 and simply wipe the parts. Keep moving the rag so you're always wiping with a clean surface. The hardest thing to get at is the right side of small chainrings. Don't expect perfection but work the rag and you can wipe away most of the grime.

Do not spin the chain fast when doing this or the WD40 will splatter all over your frame and other nearby things like carpet and walls etc.

Next lube it. It may seem counterintuitive to apply lube again, but cleaning removes most of it and you don't want to ride with a dry chain which is what happens with WD40. So finish your chain session by applying a drop of lube like the sewing machine oil across each roller only not the side plates. Give it 5 minutes to settle in, then turn the chain lightly through a clean rag to wipe off any excess. After that wait at least 12 hours before riding it to allow the oil to penetrate.

Problem with sewing machine oil or any type of oil like motor oil or some sort of homebrew mixture is that these are dirt magnets, thus you will need to clean the chain after each ride to prevent dirt build up and wearing out the chain and gear teeth; but it's better then nothing and way better then just WD40.

I think the best lube is ProLink and the FinishLine products; you can make homemade brew but again those do not go dry and leave an oily surface on the chain attracting dirt like a magnet thus frequent cleaning and relubing after every ride.. The problem with BioShield, or Pedros Ice Wax, or White Lightning or other such wax based products, is that they don't last as long as other dry lubes, about 60 to 100 miles, thus wear begins faster and thus you would need to relube after every ride to try to prevent that. As with any lube you need to wait at least 12 hours before riding to allow enough time for the carrier to make the lube penetrate and for the carrier to evaporate.
froze is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 10:28 AM
  #9  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 642 Times in 363 Posts
Originally Posted by coolkid_cody
So I had to clean/ degrease my chain after being caught in the pouring rain a few times since it got a bunch of sand and grit in it. In my home I only have WD40 which I heard was terrible to lube your chain with and som Singer Machine Oil that my mom had for her sewing machine. it says on the bottle its all purpose and can be used for bicycle gears. I have a single speed and was wondering if this sounds legit to use on my bike. I had 0 dollars to buy oil at the shop.
Lube is cheap and it takes only a very tiny amount to do the job. $5.00 at the bike shop will buy a ridiculously tiny bottle of real bicycle chain lube that, properly used, will last you several years. Chains cost more than that.

A thimblefull of automobile engine oil will work too. Find somebody who changes their own oil. Steal one of their empty cans and drain whatever's left in the bottom. That'll be enough.

The trick with either product is not to put on too much. Put the tiniest drop that you can manage on each link, wait overnight, and then try to wipe off every trace of oil from the exterior of the chain with a clean, dry rag.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 10:42 AM
  #10  
wristwister
Mekanicul Enjuneer
 
wristwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Snohomish, WA
Posts: 144

Bikes: Specialized Sequoia

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The LBS where I bought my bike talked me into bying a bottle of this expensive vegetable based chain lube. They said they used it there for all bike lubing, great stuff, environmentally friendly, yadda yadda yadda. Well, the stuff SUCKS! Gets all gummed up in no time flat. Once gummed up it attracts every bit of grime and gunk in the atmosphere.

So ... now I clean with WD40 and lube with good old 3-in-1 oil from the hardware store. Seems to work great.
wristwister is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 10:54 AM
  #11  
DMF 
Elitist Troglodyte
 
DMF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 6,925

Bikes: 03 Raleigh Professional (steel)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Proofide
The Singer stuff gets my vote over the WD-40!
+1

There may be better stuff, but at least it's designed to "cling" and not to evaporate. It will, however, attract dirt like nobody's business.


But that said, please realize that there are many of us that hold that soaking or washing a chain is counterproductive. You can wash more dirt into the rollers than you remove. Remember that dirt on the outside of a chain is not indicative of dirt on the inside, where the wear occurs. All the external dirt threatens is your pant leg, so just wiping it down to get the worst off is all you need to do.

Likewise, a dry lube that doesn't attract much dirt is preferable. I use White Lightning predominately, and add some wet lube about once month.
__________________
Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

- Will Rogers
DMF is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 10:56 AM
  #12  
DMF 
Elitist Troglodyte
 
DMF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 6,925

Bikes: 03 Raleigh Professional (steel)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by wristwister
So ... now I clean with WD40 and lube with good old 3-in-1 oil from the hardware store. Seems to work great.
Where is botto when we need him?



__________________
Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

- Will Rogers
DMF is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 11:42 AM
  #13  
Proofide
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Incidentally, where do people stand on the question of the factory lube you get on a new chain? Do you run with it until it's time to clean the chain? It seems awfully sticky stuff, and the shop where I got my SRAM chain advised me to remove it and use my normal lubricant, as the factory lube would attract dirt.
Proofide is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 11:47 AM
  #14  
froze
Banned.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 4,761

Bikes: 84 Trek 660 Suntour Superbe; 87 Giant Rincon Shimano XT; 07 Mercian Vincitore Campy Veloce

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Proofide
Incidentally, where do people stand on the question of the factory lube you get on a new chain? Do you run with it until it's time to clean the chain? It seems awfully sticky stuff, and the shop where I got my SRAM chain advised me to remove it and use my normal lubricant, as the factory lube would attract dirt.
that stuff is strickly for shipping and storage purposes so it won't rust waiting to be used, it's a protective coating.
froze is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 11:53 AM
  #15  
Proofide
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
That's what I always assumed. However, recently, I'm sure I read somewhere (maybe on the SRAM web site) that they ship their chains in a long-lasting lubricant which you can use on the road. It was so sticky that my instinct was to remove it anyway.
Proofide is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 11:56 AM
  #16  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 642 Times in 363 Posts
Originally Posted by froze
that stuff is strickly for shipping and storage purposes so it won't rust waiting to be used, it's a protective coating.
I hear that a lot. Do you have a source?
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 12:07 PM
  #17  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 642 Times in 363 Posts
Originally Posted by Proofide
Incidentally, where do people stand on the question of the factory lube you get on a new chain? Do you run with it until it's time to clean the chain? It seems awfully sticky stuff, and the shop where I got my SRAM chain advised me to remove it and use my normal lubricant, as the factory lube would attract dirt.
I just install the chain and ride.

In the interest of full disclosure I will admit to:
1. Not being particularly fastidious about chain cleanilness and lubrication.
2. Never having made an effort to research or document chain life.

Chain lubrication threads should be automatically redacted to "Religion and Politics". I've got a close personal friend who carefully keeps track of the miles on each of his bikes so that every 1,500 miles he can service the chain. Servicing involves spotless cleaning it rinsing and drying, and submerging it in a home brewed concoction of melted wax and engine oil. I think there's an incantation that goes with it too but, since I'm not a true believer, I've never been allowed to watch.

I don't do all that. I don't find it necessary to replace chains all that often either.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 12:07 PM
  #18  
coolkid_cody
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 136

Bikes: Surly Steamroller, Schwinn Continental II

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
thanks for all the ideas. ill try the singer oil and if that gets too dirty with grud and stuff ill clean it and try out the engine oil method. one i need to oil up after that ill definatly have money to get some bike specific stuff. I just dont want to sit around until I can get some.
coolkid_cody is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 12:17 PM
  #19  
froze
Banned.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 4,761

Bikes: 84 Trek 660 Suntour Superbe; 87 Giant Rincon Shimano XT; 07 Mercian Vincitore Campy Veloce

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
I hear that a lot. Do you have a source?
Don't get me wrong, the lube used is a very high quality, when I said it is for shipping purposes, I mean't the lube on the outside is intended to protect the chain from rust; it can be removed but I mean to remove it from the outside NOT the inside so that the sticky residue on the outside doesn't attract dirt like a magnet gunking up your chain, so just wipe it off with a clean rag. The factory lube by itself is good for few hundred miles before you have to start lubing it. It would be nice if the chain factories would sell their lube for us to use but for some ungodly reason they don't, and instead if you ask them they come up with a bunch of other lubes that you can find at LBS's.

In the old days I use to bake wax mixed with Slick50 on my chains, but I found out that wax is not as good of a lubricant as oil though it did maintain a clean chain. I guess that's why the chain factory uses oil when they ship the chains instead of wax, maybe we should at least take note of that instead of using Pedros or White Lightning etc.
froze is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 12:31 PM
  #20  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 642 Times in 363 Posts
Originally Posted by froze
It would be nice if the chain factories would sell their lube for us to use but for some ungodly reason they don't,
I'm thinking maybe it wouldn't apply very well at room temperature and pressure. If I were to get serious about lubeing a chain I'd want to submerge it in a pressure vessel to force the lube into all of the inner spaces.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 12:40 PM
  #21  
Proofide
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Does capillary action not do that?
Proofide is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 12:52 PM
  #22  
DaveSSS 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,215

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1091 Post(s)
Liked 555 Times in 444 Posts
Originally Posted by neil0502
Wait.

I know you're an ME (right?), so I value your opinion, but ...

Lemme' re-phrase, and please tell me if I read you right. I hear you saying what I always say: it's a lube, but there are better lubes for nearly any bike-application. It WILL provide reduced wear relative to NOT using any lube, but most basic lubricants (including home brew) will provide BETTER lubrication.

Is that a fair characterization?
WD-40 isn't good enough to resist the extreme pressure at the pin and bushing interface. That's what my test proved. The other lubes that I mentioned are.

WD-40 is fine for light duty lubing like derailleur pivots or even the jockey pulley bushings (not ball bearing types).

I've used a Campy 10 chain (homebrew lubed) for 6,000 miles and measured about 1/3 of the "allowable" .5% elongation, so I know that it works. At that mileage, the chain was still shot, due to roller wear and side wear, but not elongation. Most, perhaps all, other chain brands will elongate to .5% after far fewer miles.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 08-02-09 at 07:54 AM.
DaveSSS is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 01:01 PM
  #23  
froze
Banned.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 4,761

Bikes: 84 Trek 660 Suntour Superbe; 87 Giant Rincon Shimano XT; 07 Mercian Vincitore Campy Veloce

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
I'm thinking maybe it wouldn't apply very well at room temperature and pressure. If I were to get serious about lubeing a chain I'd want to submerge it in a pressure vessel to force the lube into all of the inner spaces.
That's how they do it, under pressure? I never knew that, I thought they submerged the chains in a bath. I believe, though I could be wrong because I haven't owned a motorcycle for 25+ years, that you can get factory lube for motorcycle chains...is this correct? if so then why? wouldn't that be applied under pressure like a bicycle chain and yet all they do is spray on the factory lube during routine service?
froze is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 01:01 PM
  #24  
DMF 
Elitist Troglodyte
 
DMF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 6,925

Bikes: 03 Raleigh Professional (steel)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
Originally Posted by froze
that stuff is strickly for shipping and storage purposes so it won't rust waiting to be used, it's a protective coating.
I hear that a lot. Do you have a source?
Shimano sez leave it on. I tried using just that with a new chain, but the chain obviously didn't like it. It started squeaking. So I guess the proper procedure is to leave it on but add your regular lube.
__________________
Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

- Will Rogers
DMF is offline  
Old 08-01-09, 01:23 PM
  #25  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 642 Times in 363 Posts
Originally Posted by froze
That's how they do it, under pressure?
Now I didn't say that. I said that's what I would do. I have no idea if chain manufacturers do that or not. I've never had the opportunity to talk with any bicycle chain engineering folks but I think it would be interesting.

FWIW, I bought a pressure can of some miracle motorcycle chain lube about 40 years ago. Talk about an ugly black mess! After trying it once I threw the rest away.
Retro Grouch is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.