sirkaos

I contacted Specialized Rider Care and they responded about a day later:



Thank you for reaching out! That is correct, the service interval is 500 hours on that shock. Any Specialized dealer will be able to service that shock for you! If they are not aware of this process the shop will have to reach out to their inside service rep. I hope this helps!

Best,

Morgan

To follow on, I wanted to clarify what "Service" meant to Specialized. I called Specialized Rider Care today and spoke to Garrett. He said that the term service is simply a remove the cartridge, clean, inspect, re-grease and torque to specification which is included in the original Roubaix paperwork. He recommended either standard Park Poly grease or Slick Honey which is a bit lighter, but could give a bit smoother feel to the action of the FS. Because that grease is light, you may want to go with a more frequent schedule.


For me, it is such a simple task, I will go to the "Slick Honey" and report back how that feels.


Now if you do see some wear marks, or anything unusual, then you need to get your local LBS involved, document with pictures and thoroughly evaluate since it is a safety issue. Your LBS would and should make the call on if you should replace the FS or not.


This all makes perfect sense to me. I am glad I took the time to go to the source and get accurate information and not rely on something else.

wheelhot

Well said! So it sounds just like a regular maintenance then "the part will cease to work after 500 hours and you'll need to replace the whole cartridge"

Slick Madone

Thanks for the clarification. That should ease quite a few fears from misinformation.

Racing Dan

How on earth did it end up looking like this. The pitting on the roller bearing surface is extreme. Did you ride it in the ocean or wash it with battery acid? Where I live the roads are routinely covered with salt during winter. Not even that causes corrosion like this. Not even el-cheapo brown chains corrode like this.

The broken clamp collar is scary. Did you use a torque wrench?

Im puzzeled, but thank you for posting the pictures.

Abe_Froman

That's because the bushing bicycle chain debuted in 1898. It can reasonably be assumed that 120 years is enough for people to get a rough idea of maintenance expectations.

Specialized just re-designed a standard part of the bike that has operated without issue for decades, added complexity and moving parts where there were none, and didn't give anyone a clue about maintenance practices for a part of the bike that didn't even exist until recently.

memebag

In all of those 120 years, no one ever told me chains had to be replaced every 2,000 miles. When I buy a new car the owner's manual tells me how frequently the oil will need to be changed, when the timing belt should be replaced, etc. None of the new bikes I've bought from LBSs came with maintenance info.

sirkaos

This is all very interesting to me.


I noted a few things.
1. The fork has what appears to be a large drop of moisture running done the steerer tube. Why is there moisture in this area? The future shock has moisture drops on it, the clamp collar has moisture on the inside surface. Do you pressure wash the bike? Ride in hurricanes? (just kiddin)
2. When I clean the bike, I only dry wash, ie I use "Final Touch" on a microfiber towel and wipe down the bike after every ride. I also take a paper towel and fold in half and run it between the lower head tube and steerer tube/fork near the lower bearing and I can get an idea what the grease is doing and if there is any contaminants are in there. Moisture would show up easily.
3. I would gently inquire with the LBS that built this up when you first bought it, what kind of lubricant grease are they using?
4. I don't see any friction paste anywhere. Check the Specialized manual and it clearly points out that friction paste should be applied to the outside of the steerer tube but only below the top bearing and above the lower bearing.


There is a MASSIVE amount of corrosion shown in these pics. Every piece shows some level of corrosion. Casting blame does not help anyone, but an honest assessment of how this was assembled. How often it was serviced, what lubricants were used, etc etc.


When I disassembled mine after 4K miles, there was barely some slightly discolored grease on the lower bearing. Very little. I was frankly surprised how clean everything was. I would be looking real hard at how the LBS assembled this bike.


FYI, When I previously posted some information, I just received a small tube of the recommended "Slick Honey" for the spring lubrication inside the future shock. I will report back on how it performs.

dezellis

I will try to answer the questions.
I have rode it almost every day for nine months in all weathers in the UK where road salt is frequently used in winter. It is just nine months old.
I do use a torque wrench but had no reason to use it on the clamp because I had never removed it. It was the clamp breaking that focused my attention on the headset/future shock problems.
I was aware of rust stains on the forks before the clamp broke but I could not obtain replacement headset bearings they are unique to the Roubaix/Ruby 2017/2018 and every one was out of stock so I did not strip it down until the clamp broke.
I stripped it down to photograph it immediately after a 50 mile ride in heavy rain so moisture in the photographs is no real surprise. Why so much moisture gets in the head tube I don't know but I think we should be able to use our bikes in the rain without having to strip the steerer tube and dry everything afterwards.
Friction paste was evident in the steerer tube and the outside of the future shock cartridge. I re-applied friction paste when I re-assembled also.
I am pleased that there was no evidence of corrosion on yours sirkaos. I wash my bike with soap and water and a sponge and rinse with the sponge and clean water no pressure washer.
My bike has done 9000 miles but I did not expect to have to strip the future shock and maintain this so I have not maintained it until the clamp failure. In fact Specialized have said that I have voided my warranty by stripping it down and maintaining it.
I suspect the future shock is factory fitted and not fitted by my bike supplier so standard assembly practices of grease and friction paste that the manufacturer uses would have been used.
Regards
Dez Ellis

sirkaos

Appreciate your honest and direct answers. You sound like a well seasoned and savvy rider.
It appears that obviously the service frequency needs to be updated. If you are riding in constant wet weather and wet washing the bike with soap and water on top of that?. The results speak for themselves. I might suggest a high fiber moisture proof grease like boat trailer grease. Very sticky but does pretty well in wet climates. Did you have your bike in for any service work during the 9 months? This is an extreme usage case that maintenance frequency needs to be adjusted to match. I assume your LBS has sold several Specialized FS bikes. I am also assuming they are operating in the same climate. They should have taken steps to prevent this level of corrosion as well as having a very detailed and forthcoming conversation with you. I would have consulted with the LBS and Specialized for preventative maintenance to operate a bike in such an extreme climate.
I would immediately do a complete frame strip and look at the bottom bracket, free hub, disk brake calipers, wheel bearings. Everything.
Are you Di2? Then all of the electrical connections should be shrink wrapped. You could use a dielectric compound paste that is like Vaseline for electrical connections. I have some other suggestions but PM me if your interested. Cheers, it can be fixed.

Racing Dan

What I find odd is the cartridge itself appears not be water proof. Any idea why that is? I mean, I get the internal volume of the cartridge changes when it is compressed and that for that reason there might be went holes that can suck in moisture, but that is speculation on my part. Up front I would have believed it to be water proof. As sirkaos touches on, I too would perform a thorough checkup on that bike and the reason as to why this happened needs to be diagnosed.

wheelhot

Hmm, I guess maybe this is why Spesh wrote in the user manual not to remove the rubber boot as it'll expose the future shock to contaminants?

Though that corrosion is excessive and really odd.

dezellis

Hi, the rubber boot has never been removed prior to the time I first stripped it down 2nd time I stripped it down was for the photographs but there was a small split in it when it was removed.
I am not sure if the top seal area of the rubber boot is circular but the inner cartridge has three flat areas which could allow water to pass. However, I do remember an indicator mark on the rubber boot which may suggest fitting this to one of the flats so it may have flats in the top seal shape.
Without a good seal on the rubber boot the cartridge itself has no water ingress protection.
Regards
Dez Ellis

dezellis

I don't think the climate is so extreme just normal uk weather. I am perhaps an unusual rider in that I have ridden every day except for holidays abroad and Christmas day and the occasional illness. It is not Di2.
When the bike first arrived there was what appeared to be bottom bracket noise. The supplier had it back 3 times and with permission from Specialized fitted Shimano 105 bottom bracket and crank set to replace the original Praxis set. The noise was eventually found to be from the free hub so I have kept my eye on this.
I have checked the bottom bracket, wheel bearings, disc brakes and free hub as part of my normal maintenance but did not expect to have to check the future shock.
The disappointing thing is Specialized have said you stripped it you voided the warranty but it was obviously well and truly failed before I had to strip it.
Regards
Dez Ellis

dezellis

The more I look at the corrosion especially on the metal strip wear surfaces I can see that the metal is not as corroded where the roller bearings sat or groups of roller bearings sat and much more corroded between. It may be that the future shock was not moving enough or it may just be the resting position of the roller bearings. The bike did come with the strongest spring installed as I believe most of them did. When I do finally get a replacement future shock I may fit the weakest spring to ensure the future shock suspension has full travel more frequently.

sirkaos

Per the instructions, the arrow on the boot faces forward. I took my shock apart to see how corrosion could get into the future shock itself. At the bottom of the cartridge there are several small holes that the spring rests on to allow air to escape as the cartridge compresses. This is the only way that water could get it. The top of the cartridge is sealed with an oring. So the only way for water is through the bottom of the cartridge. Have you ordered replacement parts? I think really you only need the bearings, everything else can be cleaned up carefully.

Do you have the stickers that came with the bike around the future shock? My LBS gave me everything

Campag4life

Dezellis,
Thanks for the pics. Your opinion please. Pls see the pic below I put lines on. These appear to be shims which match up with machined grooves shown inside the FS barrel per the other pic you show with guts removed.

A comment is...perhaps they shims are 'sized' in terms of thickess to create a certain preload based upon the tolerance of interfacing parts...the shock stroking up and down against these shims creating some side load by design to mitigate rattle or vibration. With wear..or with fractional mis-sizing from the factory, it maybe possible this preload is diminished contributing to a potential rattle. What do you think?

See below and thanks again.

dezellis

Thanks for confirmation on the rubber boot alignment I will check it right now.

The bike did come with the stickers I probably still have them somewhere but not to hand.

I am trying to obtain replacement parts. New future shock cartridge complete with rubber boot. New steerer tube top clamp. New headset bearings. I cannot find them available for direct sale anywhere so I have had to go back to my bike supplier to see if they can obtain the parts. I am willing to pay for the parts but I do believe at 9 months old they should be warranty replacements.

I have not named my bike supplier because I have no complaint about them.

It just shows how peoples opinions differ. I believe the future shock cartridge is beyond economical repair the pitting on the wear surfaces could not be eliminated without going grossly outside of my acceptable tolerances.

I think it would have to be submerged to get water in from the bottom of the future shock and my bike has never been submerged. What I will say is I do hang it by it's front wheel which probably keeps the headset close to horizontal and may reduce chances of water escaping. I will have to re-assess my storage solution.

Regards
Dez Ellis

dezellis

I think that I don't really have an opinion on the role of the metal strips other than they are the external wear surfaces that do indeed fit inside the grooves.

Regards
Dez Ellis

Campag4life

With respect, you do have an opinion implicitly. You believe they are wear surfaces. With wear, begets reduced internal lateral preload and opportunity for rattle over bumps...sometimes reported with the future shock.

This thread has been revelatory in that, it is possible the FS can be tamed with proper maintainence aka adjustment and service aka periodic greasing for example to mitigate the corrosion issue you show which is clearly worse case based upon a lack of service in combination with what many would consider a difficult riding environment with a lot of contamination.

Over time, the FS will hopefully be better understood. For example. If Speicialized does size their shims you show in terms of thickness or they are sacrificial wear items, possibly they can be replaced periodically if a rattle accrues as a result...or shimmed from behind by an owner.

I believe FS will be better understand over time and threads like this a springboard for happier Roubaix and Diverge FS owners based upon greater comprehension. You help this process by showing the internals. A simple test of new and unused FS cartridge at the dealer on an owner's bike with a rattle...a 10 minute effort, can isolate the FS canister itself being the culprit for a rattle versus attaching hardware which may be sometimes the case based upon lack of proper 'adjustment'.

PS. An example of a knob to turn if say a FS Roubaix owner has a rattle is to disassemble the FS as you have with hopefully almost no corrosion you show which with proper lubrication which would likely almost never occur or be much less, and they could shim 1 to 3 shims you show to introduce more lateral preload. Tradeoff being, too much lateral preload may mitigate encumbered shock displacement. This could be done simply starting with an alloy strip cut from a soda can with same dimensions except thickness placed behind 1-3 steel shims in your picture.
The shims you show which you believe to wear surfaces are likely there for wear resistance, hardened surfaces to decrease sliding resistance and increase wear resistance...like more linear crank bearings in a car engine for example which are also sensitive to fit. Very thin Al shims from a pop could be placed between the hardened shims you show and the inside diameter of the FS barrel to shore up a rattle provided too much preload wasn't introduce to impede shock function...a balance which no doubt is a priority in the design itself.

A starting point to experiment for Roubaix owners with a FS that rattles who doesn't want to run out and buy a new shock.

dezellis

I don't disagree with anything you have stated and your further explanation helps me to understand your point. However, the channels for the steel shims are only really deep enough to retain the steel shims if you add too much material behind them the retainment method may be compromised. You have described a valid method for locating or even eliminating some noises.

Regards
Dez Ellis

79pmooney

Question - is this the unit Peter Sagan was riding the Paris-Roubaix race Sunday? Does the upper steerer portion where the stem clamps on require different clamping pressures than standard CF steerers? (There is now a widely seen video of Sagan tightening his stem clamp bolts several turns while riding, a huge adjustment. Of course, this is Peter Sagan, the trickster who has played every prank imaginable, but still, this was late in the both hardest race he has ever ridden and the most prestigious he has ever won.)

Ben

Campag4life

The design of the shock would not support copious shimming material behind what are really narrow rectangular bearing surfaces. In fact out of the three rectangular bearings you show spaced 120 degrees diametrically apart, perhaps only one needs to be shimmed with a single pop can strip as a starting point.

What 'may' spell the difference between a rattling FS and one that doesn't is a 'precariously' narrow tolerance of preload. In fact, this may be the flaw in the design...or not. Some rattle and some don't. Some bind but vast majority don't.

There is even an opportunity to change the 'shape' of 1 or 3 rectangular bearing surfaces you show. This could be easily done in a soft chuck vice with crescent wrench. Place a slight arc in the bearing strip surface itself laterally but not longitudinally which may inhibit shock stroking...slightly convex bend in bearing strips looking down through the screw on top cover of the canister...the surface the plunger rides on, which would ride on the convex inboard tangent of the arc placed in the bearing strip to create greater interference in an effort to mitigate any rattle. Start with one bearing strip shown and only a few thousands of bend. The balancing act again would be lack of 'sticktion', sticktion being the enemy of any shock versus rattle...clearance being conducive to lack of sticktion. Clearance of internal parts is what causes motion and rattle. Elimination of diametrical clearance and likely rattle would be abated.

dezellis

Hi Ben, from what I can see, no he was tightening the stem clamp bolts not the future shock steerer tube top clamp single bolt.

Campag4life

Ben,
Point of fact, we don't know what Sagan was racing in the Roubaix race. His whole bike was basically a Tarmac with a Roubaix name on it. Nothing like a production Roubaix. Possible it looked like a future shock but was solid.

Not sure you have seen a review of his bike he rode in the race. His shock had a 'lock out' which likely will be available on future Roubaixs. When he sprinted for the win on the oval no doubt the shock was locked out.

I watched him ride pretty closely over the cobbles. His arms shook on the handlebar no differently than other riders over the cobbles including in years past. Same ferocity and no perceivable improvement due to the FS.

Some, to let you know, have raced the FS Roubaix with a 'solid insert' In fact, I believe there was one catastrophic failure of a FS solid steerer in a past race where FS took the rap where the rider went into the race not wanting it. Perhaps somebody could link this occurrence as it has been discussed on the web before.

The design of the FS is very different than a conventional single bolt preload of a carbon steerer on an ordinary bike.

Slick Madone

He also favors a Zipp stem I believe and it may have just shaken loose enough over the course of that race to need a little tightening.

I'm surprised it isn't more common for that race.