JohnJ80

rubiksoval

So are you of the opinion that wind does not affect hearing the environment?

And if not, how do you reconcile that issue while decrying headphones? Especially with the multiple people stating they can hear traffic and even conversation just fine except when wind noise dictates otherwise?

rubiksoval

Absurdly dramatic, much?

Teamprovicycle

Again if im deafed frpm the wind how is that any different . the wind sometimes drowns out the music and is louder .?

mstateglfr 

I agree that I am not aware of what I'm not aware of while riding. I try to figure it out while riding and during my day to day life and cant figure out what inam not aware of.
ignorance is bliss.

For much of the year in ride with teens in a group that helps train them to ride across tuebstatre on RAGBRAI. We follow all traffic signs/lights and of course dont play music, much less wear ear buds.
I ride over 1300mi of roads(city roads, county highways, and paved trails) with them. I can't figure out what I am missing by playing music while riding alone after the training season is over.

I may be missing something, but boy I can't figure it out.
when riding with the group, there are some county roads where indont hear a car coming from behind until it passes and its on a 50mph road. I dont hear the car because of wind.

I really struggle to conceptualize how now hearing that car due to music is any different.

but again- ignorance is bliss.

I fully agree with you about speakers on bikes(or hikers). Terrible thing to do to all the others on a trail- forcing others to listen to music blasting is lame.

DrIsotope

I have a Boombotix Boombot on an out-front mount on my CX bike. It is exclusively used for solo riding, away from other people... except when near the beach. On the boardwalk, I have that thing cranked, because otherwise people will literally just step out in front carrying an umbrella, a cooler, and two boogie boards.

My sig shows that at the very least, anecdotally, headphones make no difference in regards to safety.

JohnJ80

rubiksoval

Making a statement like that is essentially saying everyone who doesn't think the same way you do about the topic has a death wish.

It's the opposite of "not-confrontational" and is essentially passive-aggression, certainly extending beyond hyperbole.

avole

Do you know how much I wish I wasn't deaf in one ear so I can hear what is happening behind me and to my left? It's personal, but I find your post despicable.

rubiksoval

My post illustrates the issue with taking such a definite stance on a matter with so many variables.

Point being that there are other sources of noise and distraction, and choosing one to be a pariah while ignoring the rest is pointless and silly.

Take your logic about legislating ear buds to a conclusive extreme: Since you feel variables that impact a person's ability to hear are so dangerous, should there be legislation against the deaf and hard of hearing operating bicycles as well?

Of course not. That would be despicable.

jamesdak 

So no wind where you're at? Most times I can't hear cars right on top of me because of the blowing wind and the wind from my speed.

Carbonfiberboy 

Same reason cell phones are banned. Hands-free phones should also be banned, judging by the behavior I see around me on the freeway. I'm simply stating what I've observed and repeat my assertion that one is not aware of what one is not aware. That's not a complicated cosmological assertion, though it is logical. That's why cyclists with buds fail to notice either my car or bike and do stupid things they would not have done had they been aware of their surroundings. Whether or not that's due to hearing is not the assertion I'm making. I don't really care why. I just want them to stop it, mostly for my safety but also a little bit for theirs.

I've had to absolutely scream in people's ears to get them to notice what was happening. They're in their own world. I don't think one bud is a great idea either. Washington State law forbids headphones or buds when driving for the reasons I state. Since it's not enforced, whether or not it applies to cyclists will remain unknown until it is tested in court. Thus the law is of the opinion that headphones and buds are qualitatively different from speakers. I don't know how they decided that, but I suspect it's true.

DrIsotope

Cycling ≠ driving. Did you learn to 3-point turn, parallel park, and how far back from a railroad crossing to stop on your bicycle?
Using a cellphone ≠ listening to music. Cellphones are about distraction. You can't task-switch fast enough to safely operate a motor vehicle and compose a text message. That's a simple fact. But I can operate heavy equipment with music on in the background. It's not that hard.

Based on the nonsensical "arguments" brought up by some in this thread, mowing the lawn with headphones in could possibly be the most dangerous activity a person might regularly participate in. I hope some of you don't try humming a tune and walking down stairs at the same time.

British

Terrano-x. Mounts to your helmet, and the little speakers sit slightly off your ears so they don't block out other noise. It's also an intercom system so we can talk to each other.
​​​​​

rubiksoval

I agree with the cell phones and phones based on the potential need to use your eyes to look at the device to answer, dial, hangup, etc. However, logically speaking, if you deem talking on the phone to be detrimental, wouldn't talking to another passenger be the same detriment?

I think having to scream into someone's ears is more a matter of being in the moment/concentrating rather than being distracted from an external stimulus. I think we've all either witnessed or participated in situations in which even with no external obstruction to attention, the mind is simply focused on something else.

jamesdak 

Love it!

JohnJ80

rubiksoval

Babble that resonates, huh?

Right.

Abe_Froman

ok now this is actually a legitimate argument, that liste ing to musoc distracts YOURSELF. Now, however, this principle applies to cars as well, and they put others at risk, while cyclists do not. So logically, we should be banning radios in cars as well. Whcih I'm not necessarily opposed to.

Carbonfiberboy 

There have been some discussions on this point among safety experts. AFAIK the situation is that people have accidents while phoning. They know how many from tower records. However whether or not one was conversing in the car cannot be known. There's also the opinion that perhaps 4 eyes is enough better than 2 eyes to make the safety equation go the other way or at least balance it.

I do see riders deep in discussion while riding in the middle of the road. I've screamed at people doing that, too. Totally unaware that there are cars bearing down on them as they climb a double-yellow hill at 8 mph. Not OK. I'm just anti-distraction, period. That's my position. Now I hear people saying they're not distracted. I say BS, that's just being defensive. They want to do it and they're going to do it so get off my lawn. Fine. But I do get to state my position in the hope of influencing others, which is what we do here.

DrIsotope

Having an opinion doesn't make you right. In fact, hoping to sway people to your wrong thinking is potentially harmful. Do people involved in collisions while on the phone? Sure. Do people have collisions when doing absolutely everything right? All the time.

If you don't want to wear headphones, that's great. No one is making you. But running around yelling DANGER! when there is none doesn't help anyone.

And once again,

wearing headphones ≠ being distracted.

JohnJ80

diphthong

if it works for you, regardless of music or not, great. keep on keeping on. realize that others do not agree with you. breathe. be at peace with it.

rubiksoval

Just a discussion, bro. You're the one citing impending death.

rubiksoval

People have accidents because they suck at driving. Or because someone else that sucks at driving caused their accident. I mean, seriously. If all of that is a roundabout way to explain accidents, at some point Occam's Razor has to be invoked.

It's ridiculous to assert that listening to music causes accidents to any more significant degree than absolutely anything else. Part of riding and driving is dealing with distractions. That 747 landing on the runway adjacent to the road, the car crash on the other side of the highway, the screaming from a child in the backseat, the scalding coffee coursing down your pant leg because you hit the brakes when a dog ran out in to the road....

That's part of driving. That's part of cycling.

As has been alluded to above, people can do more than one thing at once. Listening and riding or driving is certainly an example of that.