yendor28

Hi,

* posted here and in foo as relates to both

I am going to appeal the matter. Please see the below letter and provide your feedback and suggestions. I do not want to go to court because it would cost me a days work which is more than the fine. I suspect I would win though because how could they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I rode through the red light. They had two police officers in the car. No witnesses so it would just be my word against theirs.


* I sincerely believe they just picked on me because I was on my bike and they needed to revenue raise. I mean there was no way they could have seen whether I passed the green or red light. All they could say is that the car and I ran the red light together whilst we were in front of them but there is no way that happened as it was on a big hill meaning I was going REALLY slowly and it would take me a long time to even run a red light!

** It did not happen because I know it did not but I am trying to prove my point to an objective observer of the facts.
What do you think? I would counterclaim for my costs for missing work and legal fees. Waste of time and energy though. I hate the stress so would probably just pay to remove the nuisance factor. Ideally I want them to waive the fine based on my letter or perhaps meet with me to discuss the matter informally.

thank you

LETTER




It has been alleged that I rode through a red light on my bicycle at the intersection of St George’s Tce and Elder St at 1.56pm Sunday afternoon.

I respectfully request that you waive the fine of $150 due to the circumstances below. I submit that it is reaosnable that we do not proceed to court over this matter as that would provide unnecessary cost and inconvenience to both parties as I would have to consult a lawyer and counterclaim for malicious prosecution.

The Facts.

I was riding my bicycle up the hill of St Georges Terrace and approaching the intersection of Elder Street. I was cycling on the left hand side of the street approximately 1 metre out from the curb. See diagram A.

When I was about 30 metres away from the intersection, a car (C) went through the red light without stopping. To my surprise and terror, a deafening sound erupted over my right shoulder and I felt the wind from the police car as it sped off in pursuit of the car C. I had not passed through the traffic lights at this stage. The police car had come very close to me as it chased the car C and I was shaken up and wobbly trying to prevent myself from crashing. See diagram B.

I regained control of my bicycle and stopped at the traffic light intersection. When the light went green, I proceeded up the hill. See diagram C.

Halfway up the hill I saw that the police car had pulled over car C. I continued up the hill slowly and, to my surprise, was called over by the police car. I spoke to a lady police officer who asked me if I knew it was a red light back there. I assumed that the police officer was talking about the red light for the car C and needed me as a witness and said ‘yes’. The lady then asked for my license. I was very co-operative and nice as I respect police very much. Still thinking I was required as a witness for car C going through the traffic light, I handed over my license and to my utter surprise, the police officer said she was giving me a ticket for running a red light!

I was still shaken up from my fright and said please can I explain and they should use their discretion to allow me to explain what happened. There was a miscommunication and they did not understand or if they did understand they did not care. I did not run the red light. By the time I got to the intersection, I waited a little while and the light went green before I continued on.

I did not know what else to do as they would not understand and said that I had to appeal. I then came home and have immediately written this letter.

The fine should be waived as I DID NOT run any red light. It was impossible for the police to realise that I had stopped at the red light because they had already sped off after the car C and were past the traffic lights before I arrived at the traffic lights.. The diagrams below help illustrate.

I am a very careful and conscientious road user whether I am on a bicycle or in a motor vehicle. This has meant that I have never received one traffic violation in my 8 years of driving! I have never even received a warning. I am aghast that I would be fined for something I did not do. I respectfully submit that you waive the fine in these circumstances!

buelito

good luck-- my experience has been that if it is your word against a policeman's word-- they (the court) believes the policeman... very hard to prove or argue. Your letter is detailed enough that it might work though.

train safe-

DavidLee

A couple of suggestions and please do not take this the wrong way. 1, spell check your letter and 2 lose the ALL CAPS emphasis as it may come across hostile to the court. My experience is that if you do not physically appear in court no matter how well written a letter and without a lawyer you will almost always lose the case.

As you stated when you weigh the cost of a lawyer and lost days work versus paying the fine you might be better off paying the fine and eventually putting the matter behind you. It sucks to be wrongfully accused and your feelings are certainly justified.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Slow Train

[QUOTE=yendor28]I am going to appeal the matter. Please see the below letter and provide your feedback and suggestions. I do not want to go to court because it would cost me a days work which is more than the fine. [QUOTE]

+1 on the forgetting about the letter. Sometimes one can write a letter admitting guilt with explanation in the hopes of getting a reduced fine but I don't see this here. I think your options are either to pay the fine or go to court.

[QUOTE=yendor28]
I suspect I would win though because how could they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I rode through the red light. They had two police officers in the car. No witnesses so it would just be my word against theirs.
[QUOTE]

Simple fact of life - for small traffic infractions you are guilty unless you can prove otherwise. Your word against two police officers - forget about it. There are only two rationales for fighting a traffic ticket - philosophical and financial.

For the financial aspect your are fighting hoping that:
1) The officer doesn't show so you win by default.
2) The judge buys something about your story and reduces the fine.

There are books written about how best to contest traffic tickets. I suggest you consult one of these. I believe the point to contesting isn't so much about proving right or wrong but, instead, hoping to reduce the penalty enough to avoid points on your driving record. That is where the real damage is done.

You need to find out pronto if any points may be added to your driving record for an infraction incurred while cycling.

For the philosophical end of things:
You are simply want to have your day in court. Forget about this idea of recovering costs - you can't.

Philatio

that's rough, my condolences.

jcwitte

If you do send the letter, you should take out the word "lady" in front of "police officer". If you get a female judge (or whomever it is that would be reading the letter and deciding), you do not want to come across as an old-fashioned male chauvinist or anything like that. Even if your purpose for saying "lady police officer" is just to clarify which officer gave you the ticket, it would probably be taken the wrong way.

burbankbiker

A recent tip I heard from Traffic School. When you go to the court to request a court date they will likely ask you if you have a preference for an afternoon or morning hearing. Be indecisive. Then when they suggest "How about afternoon, then?" You counter with "No, you know what actually? Morning would be best."

The reason they're suggesting either morning or afternoon is because that's when the police officers are already scheduled to be in court that day. Choosing the opposite of their suggestion dramatically increases the chance of an officer no-show - allowing you to win by default.

TuckertonRR

Just because the officer doesn't show up to cour doesn't automatically mean that you'll be found not guilty - depends on the court. Popular misconception.

If you drive a car & this woult put "points" on your licence - Well worth the $$ for a lawyer In my opinion

If you are car free - Show up, I wouldn't pay $$ for the lawyer in this case. If you lose, pay the fine & be done with it.

I can understand the principle, but in my experience i'ts sometimes not worth it.

-just my 2c.

burbankbiker

Is that true? If I get a ticket for a bike violation - like running a stop sign or red light can I get points on my drivers license?!

worker4youth

Not in California.

cerewa

Yendor, it looks like you've gotten some advice from Americans on how to deal with the U.S. legal system- if you're not dealing with U.S. law then it may not apply.

Where are you from?

yendor28

thank you gentlemen - I am from Australia and have my law degree. I have not got my license to practice yet.

I shall keep you updated and thank you for your suggestions.

TuckertonRR

Don't know anything about Austrailia, My advice was based on PA & NJ law (what I know of it)
Some states can put points on your license (and your car insurance go up as a result) for a bike violation. Some states don't.