carleton

Rollfast

Or like me they'll have five nationalities known for being obstinate and Luddites and tomorrow is another day.

carleton

It's been another month...same issues.

Remember, for every user that thinks to come to this sub-forum to post their issues, there are hundreds that simply curse the site and are open to alternatives (FB, IG, R3ddit, Twitter) all of whom are doing forums better than BF is now.

noglider 

Hello, is anyone listening? Does anyone care?

IBThomas

We're working with the resources we have to address the various complaints that have come in. I'll check in on the progress of our outstanding problems to see where we are on an update. Unfortunately not all of the complaints can be addressed as they come in, and require a larger VB update to amend the problem - namely the indent issue and the problems with mentions on mobile.

Edit: Just got word from our tech team that a lot of the editor bugs will be addressed in a new version that we are updating to soon.

carleton

Ask them:

- In which sprint are these particular issues being addressed?
- What are the commit IDs if the fixes for these issues?

If they reply with anything other than Sprint IDs or Commit IDs, then the are bull****ting you. Period.

@IBThomas, I know you are only the messenger. But, it's good to know when the message you are given to relay to us is bull****.

IBobi

Thomas is well informed. Our techs are straight with us, and we are straight with you -- things take time.

As Thomas said, we've been told that some of the editor issues here (and on many other sites) are going to be fixed in the new software version. Thanks for your patience.

If there are other issues outstanding, it might be a good idea to get Thomas to start a public list so we all are on the same page as to what is wrong with the site; for the most part and for the vast majority of members, BF is functioning very well. If that's not true for you, please let us know.

Sy Reene

An oldie but a goodie.. is this one of the editor things?

himespau 

Oh joy, a new version, so this will start all over again...

I'm not trying to blame Thomas or Obi personally. I get this is how things work, just frustrated.

Ballenxj

I come here with specific forums in mind, I follow threads in "For the Love of old English three speeds," Vintage Mountain Bikes," and "Where did you ride," mostly, and this site has managed to give me the information and comradery I seek. I do understand this is the place to post concerns and problems in using this site, but I do not understand some of the snarky attitudes towards admins and moderators. If this site stresses you out that much, take a break from it. Substitute riding instead? Last I checked, this is a free site, albeit a damned good one, and if you are dissatisfied, you are entitled to a full refund.
Meanwhile, a tip of the hat to the admins and mods that keep this place going.

eja_ bottecchia

IBobi

Thank you folks -- it really does mean a lot to hear this, and we will be sure to pass the word, even as we continue to try to improve BF for all!

noglider 

I agree that there is a lot to like here, and I'm grateful for it. I've been a paying member for quite a few years, which indicates my like. So I think I have a right to complain. Some of the problem reports started quite a while back, and they haven't been given due attention. The excuses are rather lame. If my paying clients had such long-standing complaints, I'd be in a bad spot. I don't mean to sound like I'm saying you folks totally suck. You don't. But please listen. I don't feel heard. I know @Ballenxj was joking when he said we're entitled to refunds, but in a lot of other business models, I would be entitled as a paying member. I don't want a refund; I want what I'm paying for, please. Does my voice count? There are other paying members here, too.

IBobi

We totally hear you Tom!

Let me explain in more detail how software fixes work on BikeForums.

We receive a full version upgrade from the team that creates new versions of the VBulletin software that BF runs on. When there are bugs in that new version, *our* team, which is the team that Thomas and I both belong to, and that BF belongs to, does not fix those bugs. Those fixes have to wait until the next full version of the software comes out. And that usually means months.

In other cases, there are issues *caused* by the upgrade process, meaning a switch gets flipped accidentally, and then we can fix those things pretty much right away, because we have the switch available to us directly. We fixed those issues in short order after the last update.

Think of it this way: You buy a new car. Your particular car turns out to have a chip in the corner of the window. You bring it to the dealer and they replace the window. Done. BUT if your issue is that the diesel system in all the cars the manufacturer made is not as efficient as they advertised, you are going to have to wait while the company figures out how to deal with that, because it affects everyone and is not a simple fix. That's where we are at with the few remaining issues here on BF since the last update.

But as Thomas said, the changes are coming soon. And as I said above, we do not believe there are major issues with the software, just a small number of minor bugs. If you are still seeing something you feel is big, please bring it specifically to our attention and we'll evaluate it. All we have logged at the moment is a couple of bugs with the text editor, and the missing Thread Creation Date.

Thanks for your patience,

Paul

Flatballer

So you don't have the mobile issue with multiple clicks required to get from subscription to the first unread? Used to be clicking on the subscription automatically took you to the first unread, in both mobile and desktop. This was broken on mobile and still isn't fixed. Multiple people have mentioned it multiple times, and if it's not in your bug log that's kind of an issue.

noglider 

Thank you for your reply, @IBobi. I'm an IT person by profession, so I understand a lot of this. Since VBulletin comes "out of the box" with defects, it seems to me you should document the process you go through to work around these defects every time you receive a new release. That way, the process is repeatable and reliable. Furthermore, @carleton is a software development professional and has pointed out other things in your process that are missing. You have not acknowledged his points, and I find that distressing. So while I'm not facing any major bugs in the software at the moment, there is a glaring omission in your human process. Major defect.

As I pointed out a long time ago, the new default is for the endless scrolling option to be enabled. I've found how to turn it off for myself, but I think it is a huge misfeature to foist on everyone else. It's not satisfactory to say that each of us can disable it. Turn it off as the default. Major defect.

As @Flatballer points out, the mobile version is nearly unusable. Major defect.

I've cited three major defects above, and it is not a complete list.

Given that you say you hear us, and given that the defects have been here for months, are you willing to consider refunds to paying members? If not, then please fix these things more quickly. You're taking our money without delivering. Saying you're doing it as quickly as possible doesn't satisfy. As our first lady says, be best.

IBobi

I'm looking now. When you go to subscribed threads, and there are new posts in a thread there, the thread title is bolded. If you then click the little word bubble next to the bolded thread title...




...you are taken directly to the new posts. Otherwise, you are taken to the first post in thread, and can click VIEW FIRST UNREAD to get to the first unread post.

NOTE that once there are no more new posts in your subscribed thread, you can no longer click the word bubble -- you'll be taken to the first post in that thread instead.

Does that work for you?

IBobi

Again, I hear your observations about our process, and I'm sorry to hear it's not up to snuff for you. We are always trying to do better.

The default of Infinite Scroll to ON is not a bug, it was a conscious choice; we offer a way to turn it off on desktop if you wish, and I'm glad you're happy with your choice to do so.

The mobile skin is designed to be an easy way to view and reply to threads (and it can actually do quite a lot more than that, including photo uploads directly from your device!). It more than accomplishes this for the vast majority of people and is hardly unusable; if you have a specific issue that needs to be addressed, please let us know what it is and I assure you we will look into it!

Thank you for your input,

Paul

noglider 

What about infinite scroll do you like, and why do you think most people will like it? Many threads on BF are full of images, and images take time to load. When infinite scroll is enabled and I hit "home" for the top of the page, it loads more. But I'm not at the top. And I hit it again, and it loads more. And so on. It costs a lot of time. Why is this a good thing? Do you know some people are on slow links? Do you know some people pay their carriers by the byte? This means that loading pictures they're not interested in seeing costs money. What's good about that?

IBobi

Like you, they can turn it off in their settings if they don't like it

noglider 

They would have to know it's an option and then find it. That's a poor argument. I bet many people visit very occasionally and aren't inclined to tweak options. This option is very unusual and disruptive. You haven't thought this through.

Flatballer

That does work, thanks. That's not the previous behavior and there were no new instructions that things changed, and nobody pointed that out the first 7 times this was brought up over many months now.

If a major thing like what a link does is going to be changed it would be good to let people know somehow. But thanks.

carleton

All of this can be caught with testing before the major software release is pushed for the BF team to tweak to suit their particular needs.

IB has been making software for decades. This isn't their first rodeo...yet they are falling off their horse EV-ER-RY time the gate opens.

At what point should the fans say, "Maybe he's not good at ridin' horses?"

noglider 

That point is now, but that's not such a useful question. More important is what we're asking for. Can you folks deliver on the things we're asking for? You haven't given a yes answer yes. If you're not willing to say yes, can you say no?

I asked a few questions about infinite scroll, and you didn't answer them. If you did, you would realize how flawed your thinking is. Please take a stab at my questions. Please. OK?

himespau 

I have to say that I've gotten to like the infinite scroll (Didn't think I would), but then I'm on a superfast connection at work and my home connection is quite fast as well.