Salamandrine 

I vaguely remember that. It doesn't really square with my experience both in the stand and on the road, but I don't want to derail this thread. Let's discuss it some other time. Is there a write up of that experiment in The Dancing Chain? It's a book I should probably add to my shelf anyway.

It was after having to hobble home about 25 miles with most of a broken RD in my jersey pocket that I decided that reliability trumps most other things. Switched to campy after that and didn't go back for a very long time.

T-Mar

It's not in my copy of 'The Dancing Chain' but then, mine is an early edition and it may be be in the revised editions but I can't make a definitive statement. Berto's findings echo my won experiences. As for Campagnolo's reliability, I broke more Campagnolo parts than I ever did with Shimano.

JackJohn

3alarmer : thanks a lot, two great sites indeed!

Concerning the derailleur debate, well I don't feel guilty being confused anymore ;-) I guess the debate will go on forever without a final verdict, but everyone’s experience is very precious for the others, thanks for sharing!

Salamandrine 

That debate gave people something to talk about on long rides. No internet then... Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

T-Mar - I placed an order for Frank Berto's 'The Dancing Chain' book. Presumably the last edition. Maybe there will be some good stuff about his experiments in there.

JackJohn

Frank Berto’s book “Complete guide to upgrading your bike” (1988) also looks like a must read to me, lots of information on bicycles upgrading process and technical analysis for each component, including a summary review for the main brands and its favorites.

JackJohn

Ok, after lots of thoughts and brain-smoking consequences, first decisions are made:

- I’ll give a try to derailleurs Nuovo Record, I really like them and have been dreaming of them for a while. If not suited, well... I’ll resell and say to my kids I was once an owner ;-)
- I won’t go full Campy, it’s not an Italian bike and there’s a lot of interesting material out there to discover.
- I will however try to stick to Italian-only components as long as nice and performing material is available, fits my needs and doesn’t explode my budget.

So I arbitrarily (and randomly) started with brakes. Technical discussions seem endless just like for derailleurs ;-) But I short-listed two producers with performing and good looking material: Galli and Modolo (there’s a well done Modolo review here: https://veloaficionado.com/blog/ben-...ake-collection). Within their respective range, I selected two candidates in the middle/high range: Galli Criterium and Modolo Equipe. However, literature and discussions are rather limited, so any thought or suggestion on these two producers or any other you think suitable is welcome!

T-Mar

If Campagnolo stayed small and focused on road racing, it wasn't for lack of trying. Tullio was constantly trying to build his company into something very much bigger. He tried entering the entry level market in 1954 with the Sport derailleur and subsequent models that included the Sportsman, Velox, Valentino variants, 980, etc. Trouble was, the public and bicycle manufacturers weren't buying (literally). They tried cracking the touring market with the even less successful Gran Turismo and Rally variants. In the early 1990s, Campagnolo thought they could crack the ATB with a handful of groups. Public acceptance was virtually non-existent. So, while the company had great aspirations, their niche was thrust upon they by the consumer, who refused to warm to attempts to enter the entry level, touring and off-road markets. Looking at these products, it's easy to understand why. Companies like Shimano and SunTour offered better performance and value.

JackJohn

I can post photos, so here is the frame of this project...

JackJohn

Hi all,
an update:

• Transmission: Campy Nuovo Record
• Crankset and pedals: tbd
• Brakes and levers: Galli Criterium
• Stem and Handlebar: tbd
• Wheels and freewheel: tbd

now let’s go for the crankset. Campy? Gipiemme? Rino? Ofmega? Any feedback from your experience is welcome. Moreover, 3alarmer kindly suggested three options to increase rear derailleur capacity and help make my uphills easier. the first two are difficult to realize for me, the third one (going suntour) I put on hold as I decided to go full Italian. But if the triple crank is unrealistic, is to your knowledge a reduced 2nd chainring model a solution? something like 52-38? or is it just nonsense? Thanks...!

Salamandrine 

I vote you leave that Sugino Mighty that's already on there. If you prefer a European crank, Campy or Gipiemme. I never saw a Rino crank, and Ofmega really only showed up as OEM gear on Italian bikes, because Avocet had some kind of licensing deal.

Sugino would be most typical crank if you're going for a period correct bike that isn't full campy. Yes, people mixed and matched Japanese and Italian. If you want a smaller chainring, try to find an old Sugino Mighty Tour. The Mighty Tour is the originator of the modern 110 compact BCD. Other than that, TA would have been most common for a triple or compact double crank. Circa 1978 a Stronglight 105 bis would have been another possibility. Min chainring is 37. Oddball extractor and BCD.

merziac

Another vote to leave the "Mighty" Sugino Competition, easily one of if not the best in the business, every bit as strong, tough and beautiful as any.

3alarmer 

...as stated, it's pretty hard to find anything in a New Record crank that goes smaller then a 44, although occasionally you can run into a 42 . It's the bolt center diameter that prevents anything smaller. I have a couple of MIghty Tour cranks that I'm saving here for when my legs go. You can go pretty wide range with a double chain ring setup, although you might need to find some derailleurs that will handle the range. Which is not New Record. If you are absolutely stuck on New Record derailleurs (and they work fine), stick with the range they were designed to shift, which is 52/44 (or 42) in the front and 14 -24 (or 26 maybe) in the rear.

Here's what a Stella looks like that I modified for a little more range with a Campy Rally rear. I bought it from the Mountain Bike Museum guys in Fairfax, who got it as a donation from some guy who obviously had set it up new for steep climbs, with one of those Huret/Sachs Ecotour derailleurs that were very popular for a while. I never liked them, because I could never get them to shift dependably....no matter what Frank Berto thought of them.

Somehow or another, if you want a wider range, you need enough cage to pull the chain slack out of it. That's a Nervar crank, also a solid performer, but subject to the same limitations on chain rings as New Record.

3alarmer 

...and you can usually find it at accessible prices

3alarmer 

.
...I am currently building up two bikes from frames I've done some paint repairs on. I will be building new wheels for both of them, and using hubs and other components from stuff I have, mostly. It occurred to me today that as part of the process, I always run a gearing chart using this gear calculator.

So take a bike you already have and ride around there, and calculate what you use on it (lowest and highest.) Then do a similar comparison calculation using 52/44 and 14-26, which is what you'll probably end up with using New Record. Plug in your tyre and wheel size. Select the results in gear inches, because they are easy to compare. It might very well turn out that this setup will work out fine for you, and it helps to know that before you spend money on parts and then have to fiddle around afterward fitting the thing to your needs.

Anyway, that's how I approach it.

JackJohn

Salamandrine and merziac, many thanks for the good advice and your vote, I take note

3alarmer thanks a lot for the clear analysis and suggestions, much appreciated, I will definitely go through those tests. Btw, the Stella is beautiful!

JackJohn

Hi all, a quick update. I thought about all the advices given here and now am not so sure anymore about the all-Italian components. I just bought a Shimano Arabesque groupset and it would be nice and useful on the Raleigh. As I also bought a mid-range mid-80s Atala frame (quality mid-range but aesthetically very nice), I could transfer the Sugino there and keep the Nuovo Record derailleurs and Galli brakes for a new Italian high-level frame I’m still searching.
I also read a few posts about Shimano Arabesque, unsurprisingly there are those on the pro camp and those against... just like the Campy vs Shimano/Suntour above, think maybe I’ll start a « vote » thread for fun :-)

steve sumner

since your frame is a 1978 I would opt for all Super Record parts, if you want larger then a 28
rear cog the Rally cage plates bolt right on to the SR mech and look really nice

JackJohn

thanks steve sumner, good point, I take note...