How many spokes?
#1
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How many spokes?
I'm about to build another wheel set, and I was wondering if anybody has a method for determining spoke count considering rider weight, intended use, etc.
I've always ridden 32-spoke wheels and have never damaged any. I'm 170-ish pounds and ride mostly smooth roads with occasional pot holes and train tracks. Seems like I could go with less spokes, but not sure how low.
My new wheels will be for a fixed gear bike. Mostly street/commuting but with some occasional track use.
Any ideas?
I've always ridden 32-spoke wheels and have never damaged any. I'm 170-ish pounds and ride mostly smooth roads with occasional pot holes and train tracks. Seems like I could go with less spokes, but not sure how low.
My new wheels will be for a fixed gear bike. Mostly street/commuting but with some occasional track use.
Any ideas?
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I weigh more than you and have ridden 20/24 wheelsets with no problems. I've also ridden 32/32 wheels and have them gone out of true. So it depends on the build and whether you ride with load/cargo.
#3
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I'm 74kg and have ridden 32 and 24 spoke wheels without issues. Curiously, the only wheels that went out of true were 32 spokes.
I carried my son on a child seat with my mountain bike that had a 24 spoke wheelset and one day, as he gained weight (now he's 17kg), it started to creak alarmingly. I started carrying him in another bike with 32 spoke wheels and had no more issues.
I carried my son on a child seat with my mountain bike that had a 24 spoke wheelset and one day, as he gained weight (now he's 17kg), it started to creak alarmingly. I started carrying him in another bike with 32 spoke wheels and had no more issues.
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I've ridden reduced spoke count wheels, some radial, successfully and happily, but those have all been bargain or salvaged wheels. If I were going to build another set (I'm an amateur), I'd go with 32.
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What benefit do you hope to gain with a lower spoke count? The advantage of low spoke counts is primarily aerodynamic, and the degree of benefit increases with higher average speed. If you're a casual rider for whom high speed is not a concern, a 32 or even 36 spoke wheel can be both lighter and more durable than a low spoke count wheel.
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#6
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Going to higher spoke count raises the amount of weight you have to get spinning. Acceleration will be affected. The inverse is also true. I say this from experience, I had a wheel fail when climbing a hill, went to higher spoke count.
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If you are using the same components and doing an apples-to-apples comparison, the weight gain in going from a 20 spoke wheel to a 32 spoke wheel is 72g or 2.5 ounces. That's a fairly negligible weight difference. Low spoke count wheels also aren't automatically lighter than a higher spoke count wheel. It depends on the components. I built a 32 spoke wheel with Pillar triple butted spokes, Velocity A23 rims, and a White Industries T1 hub with titanium freehub to replace a set of Veulta Corsa. I lost 2 lbs (of rotating weight) in the bargain and gained about 50% strength in the wheel by using the heavier gauge spokes.
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Build quality pretty much trumps spoke count in determining wheel durability. The only broken spokes I ever had were with a pair of 36 spoke OEM wheels that came on an '85 Bridgestone 400 which began breaking spokes at about 8500 miles. I replaced them with higher quality 32 spoke wheels that used DT spokes and, since then, have never had a spoke break even on wheels with 50,000+ miles. Any failures have been from rims wearing out at the brake tracks. I currently have a pair of 16 spoke front, 20 spoke rear Shimano factory wheels with 27,000 miles on one bike and they are still in perfect shape.
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I'm about to build another wheel set, and I was wondering if anybody has a method for determining spoke count considering rider weight, intended use, etc.
I've always ridden 32-spoke wheels and have never damaged any. I'm 170-ish pounds and ride mostly smooth roads with occasional pot holes and train tracks. Seems like I could go with less spokes, but not sure how low.
My new wheels will be for a fixed gear bike. Mostly street/commuting but with some occasional track use.
Any ideas?
I've always ridden 32-spoke wheels and have never damaged any. I'm 170-ish pounds and ride mostly smooth roads with occasional pot holes and train tracks. Seems like I could go with less spokes, but not sure how low.
My new wheels will be for a fixed gear bike. Mostly street/commuting but with some occasional track use.
Any ideas?
#10
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What benefit do you hope to gain with a lower spoke count? The advantage of low spoke counts is primarily aerodynamic, and the degree of benefit increases with higher average speed. If you're a casual rider for whom high speed is not a concern, a 32 or even 36 spoke wheel can be both lighter and more durable than a low spoke count wheel.
And.. I was of same ilk back (even 48H rear) when... until I tried reduced wheelset weights for speed... after making my shadow a mite smaller.
My main sets today are 20/24's at 1300 grams range.. -->16/8--> 2:1 rear. A waste of bandwidth here attempting to explain all the benefits of 2:1 rears.. goggle it.
Wheel building skills are the main determinant of durability.. that and a good choice of components.. which do NOT have to be expensive. Think from memory mine ran 260 ish.. couple yrs ago.
DID run.. 18H w 12-6 rear.. held fine for my 195 lbs... young fella in s Tx wanted them.. made a few to buy some tires.. . Do have a new set of these around here.......... that are available for a new home. 1395ish grams. Kinlin XR 300's w Powerway lite weight hubs. Sapim butted Force spokes.
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riders need more than 36 rear.. if their running weak left sided wheel builds. H count is not the whole story.. by miles.
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I wish there were an equation or some guidance for this that we could use as amateurs. Threads like this are frustrating. We had a good one in the tandem forum a few months ago, one person advocated 36 hole heavy duty alloy rims with triple butted spokes while another advocated deep section carbon rims with 20 heavy duty single butted spokes. I don’t doubt that both wheels were very strong but they were very different in style.
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On a tandem that's nonsense.. ridiculous. Break one.. your mostly likely in trouble w wheel rub. Tandem usually means 300 lbs minimum.. and said front in this application gets some load also. And rear tandem width means mostly equalized tension side to side rear.. so 36H is often enough. Heavy tandems need 48's rear.
Then breaking stresses.. dis often. Limits drillings for 2 rider bikes.
Then breaking stresses.. dis often. Limits drillings for 2 rider bikes.
#15
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When I built wheels for my touring bike in the 80s I built with 48 rear, 40 front it all worked out fine,
But if I damaged the wheel shops would not have any spare parts..
now that I have spent time ib some more shops. 36 would mean easier to find a similar wheel along the way..
OP is in to the fixie thing , 'some track' a track bike on a banked track is subjected to significant lateral forces so may need a stronger wheel ,
than just on the street JRA , & wanting to be lookin' good..
...
But if I damaged the wheel shops would not have any spare parts..
now that I have spent time ib some more shops. 36 would mean easier to find a similar wheel along the way..
OP is in to the fixie thing , 'some track' a track bike on a banked track is subjected to significant lateral forces so may need a stronger wheel ,
than just on the street JRA , & wanting to be lookin' good..
...
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I've always ridden 32-spoke wheels and have never damaged any. I'm 170-ish pounds and ride mostly smooth roads with occasional pot holes and train tracks. Seems like I could go with less spokes, but not sure how low.
Switching to 24/16 will save you 144g making you 0.16% faster up the steepest hills.
On a one hour climb, the time you lose to thinner cyclists will shrink by six seconds.
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If you like 32h then build 32h and be done with it. Wheel arguments will outlast any wheel you build.
John
John
#19
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Lower spoke count wheels are a boon to big manufacturers and some light weight racers. For the companies the bean counters are happy with the savings.
For a wheel that will last long enough to need rim replacement and have no problems 36 spokes is the way to go.
For a wheel that will last long enough to need rim replacement and have no problems 36 spokes is the way to go.
#20
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32 spokes laced 3 cross used to be insurance against poor component quality. Modern spokes and rims are much better than they used to be: you can build a very strong, very durable wheel set with 28 spokes and you might have a better selection of hubs to choose from. You’ll very rarely break a spoke on a well-built wheel now.
Coincidentally, my track bike (Japanese steel, standard gauge tubing) has 32 spoke, 3 cross wheels because I like the aesthetics.
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I guess I'm the builder (I like to think I'm pretty good LOL) and I never ride with more than a backpack with some lunch and a jacket inside. For reference, I built up 32-spoke Velocity A23 wheels six years ago, and I trued them for the first time a couple months ago (they weren't significantly out of true).
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What benefit do you hope to gain with a lower spoke count? The advantage of low spoke counts is primarily aerodynamic, and the degree of benefit increases with higher average speed. If you're a casual rider for whom high speed is not a concern, a 32 or even 36 spoke wheel can be both lighter and more durable than a low spoke count wheel.
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Build quality pretty much trumps spoke count in determining wheel durability. The only broken spokes I ever had were with a pair of 36 spoke OEM wheels that came on an '85 Bridgestone 400 which began breaking spokes at about 8500 miles. I replaced them with higher quality 32 spoke wheels that used DT spokes and, since then, have never had a spoke break even on wheels with 50,000+ miles. Any failures have been from rims wearing out at the brake tracks. I currently have a pair of 16 spoke front, 20 spoke rear Shimano factory wheels with 27,000 miles on one bike and they are still in perfect shape.
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I wish there were an equation or some guidance for this that we could use as amateurs. Threads like this are frustrating. We had a good one in the tandem forum a few months ago, one person advocated 36 hole heavy duty alloy rims with triple butted spokes while another advocated deep section carbon rims with 20 heavy duty single butted spokes. I don’t doubt that both wheels were very strong but they were very different in style.