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Listening to Music via Headphones?

Old 05-11-20, 03:11 PM
  #226  
ADR70
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Military earbuds work ok

They are like being in a room with music and don’t block ambient noise.
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Old 05-11-20, 03:21 PM
  #227  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Ok, so I hear a car approaching and have the thought you mention, where I think of a bailout plan. I'm still riding along at 10-25mph then BAM- car hits me because, you know, I can't bail out unless I'm watching the car come at me.

I don't watch cars approach from behind since I am riding forwards. I won't know if its gonna hit me, regardless of if I can hear it.

Maybe I missed your point.
Yes, I'm riding along and hear a car approaching. I hear the sound getting louder, and through the power of deduction, am able to surmise that it's probably getting closer, even though i can't see it. Just as the vehicle is about to overtake me, I will take a quick look back, like a pitcher monitoring a runner on 2nd base.

I note lane position, speed, and line of travel, and give the vehicle an unconscious "concern" quotient based on its appearance and how loud it is. At this point, I still have a second or so to react if any potential problem is detected. That might mean moving over a little, or it might mean exiting the pavement.

So yes, it is possible to react to potentially dangerous passes if you decide to stay alert. But unfortunately, it's probably not possible to react if a person decides not to stay alert (i.e., headphones).
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Old 05-11-20, 03:26 PM
  #228  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985
Yes, I'm riding along and hear a car approaching. I hear the sound getting louder, and through the power of deduction, am able to surmise that it's probably getting closer, even though i can't see it. Just as the vehicle is about to overtake me, I will take a quick look back, like a pitcher monitoring a runner on 2nd base.

I note lane position, speed, and line of travel, and give the vehicle an unconscious "concern" quotient based on its appearance and how loud it is. At this point, I still have a second or so to react if any potential problem is detected. That might mean moving over a little, or it might mean exiting the pavement.

So yes, it is possible to react to potentially dangerous passes if you decide to stay alert. But unfortunately, it's probably not possible to react if a person decides not to stay alert (i.e., headphones).
I can not only hear it I can hear it slowing down, about to turn right into me. Seem to be a lot of people who have been lucky so far probably due to living in a relatively safe area for biking. After being hit a few times I imagine they would change their tune. Literally in this case.
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Old 05-11-20, 03:27 PM
  #229  
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Originally Posted by Barry2
I find that a lot of the headphone MUP riders don't even check over their left shoulder before moving around walkers.
Even the headphone wearing runners are guilty of that.
I view headphone use on roads as Darwinism in action.

So, No, I personally save the music for on the Trainer, then I crank it.

Plus in California I think you'll find it is illegal to operate a vehicle including a bicycle using headphones in both ears.

Remember in the land-o-many laws
California....... If its not illegal, its probably mandatory !

Barry
Interesting...I'm also in the Bay Area (South Bay) and never remember hearing anything like that. Did find a reference to it:

CA Vehicle Code - VEH

Doesn't make any distinction between road and mup/mut, tho.

See a lot of runners/walkers with headphones (and never seem to hear me coming even after I yell a few times

Like a number of other posters, I enjoy hearing the early mornings sounds in the (and distracts me from focusing on the gasping sounds coming from my lungs for some reason
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Old 05-11-20, 03:29 PM
  #230  
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat
Sounds like her mistake was not not checking to see if it was safe to make a left turn.
Possibly. But it certainly was her mistake to wear earphones while cycling.
Now her family, the driver of the vehicle, and anyone else involved has to deal with her decision for the rest of their lives.
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Old 05-11-20, 03:32 PM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985
Yes, I'm riding along and hear a car approaching. I hear the sound getting louder, and through the power of deduction, am able to surmise that it's probably getting closer, even though i can't see it. Just as the vehicle is about to overtake me, I will take a quick look back, like a pitcher monitoring a runner on 2nd base.

I note lane position, speed, and line of travel, and give the vehicle an unconscious "concern" quotient based on its appearance and how loud it is. At this point, I still have a second or so to react if any potential problem is detected. That might mean moving over a little, or it might mean exiting the pavement.

So yes, it is possible to react to potentially dangerous passes if you decide to stay alert. But unfortunately, it's probably not possible to react if a person decides not to stay alert (i.e., headphones).
oh, you look back at every car just before it passes?
Gotcha.

I don't do that, even when I dont wear headphones and ride roads with the youth cycling program I volunteer with.

Looking back at each car just before it passes seems...well to each their own.
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Old 05-11-20, 03:34 PM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Because me knowing a car is behind me won't keep me any safer.
I would ride in a straight line if I knew the car is there and I would ride in a straight line if I didn't know the car was there.

My actions won't change, so the result won't change. The only way knowing a car is behind me makes me safer is if i literally exist the road each time, which is dumb and against the point of cycling in the road.
This is exactly what I’ve been trying to communicate, thank you!. Unless you watch the car somehow, you don’t know if it’s going to hit you, you don’t know if the driver is impaired, you don’t know if the driver is distracted, you don’t know if the driver is wearing a hat (and therefore poses untold additional danger).

The part about somehow watching the car...as has been mentioned by Jim from Boston , a mirror can be used. I don’t personally feel I could tell if a car was on a path that would hit me in a small rear view mirror, but maybe I’m wrong. So let me ask, if you use a rear view mirror and a car is on a trajectory that will strike you, how far back can you tell this? In feet or meters.

If we could have a couple of answers to that question, I believe I can make an argument that considering the difference in speed between the bike and the car, there won’t be enough time to react. I could be wrong, but I’d like to do the math.

In other words, it seems to me that even if you don’t take your eyes off the approaching car, by the time you reasonably believe it’s going to strike you, there won’t be enough time to remove yourself from the car’s path. Am I wrong?

This is why I run a rear blinky light and hope for the best. I think I will pick up a radar rear blinky like, but that’s because it will help eliminate surprise close passes by those Ninja-like electric cars.
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Old 05-11-20, 03:35 PM
  #233  
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I LIKED this post by @caloso, and @Oneder made this reply:
Originally Posted by caloso
I don't see why this is so difficult. I call out whenever I am passing. But I also don't assume they have heard me so I give them as much space as is safe.

When I move to pass, I check over my shoulder in case of traffic or someone else, faster than both of us, is also passing me. Then pass. It's also nice to give a little wave and say hi when you go by.
Originally Posted by Oneder
It's difficult because of the majority of the populace being entitled and acting like they are the only one on the path and erratically wandering all over the path or outright blocking it. .

Also hardly anyone here calls out but when they do they always do it from two feet away and loudly and annoyingly, which is no use to anyone and could even be dangerous if you startle someone.
In a similar vein,
Originally Posted by burnthesheep
Speaking for the US here:

Too much of a tendency for cities to treat an MUP as an infinitely long no-rules park instead of a thoroughfare.

Around here MUPs are the gathering spot for dogs with 20' flexy leashes, off leash dogs, old people walking 5 wide, every parent's crotch fruit strung out everywhere on scooters and laying on the ground, joggers with headphones all over like a zig zap, and the wussy fake paceline cyclists treating it like the TdF.

The problem when it's "for everyone" is that nobody can seem to respect the rules that allow some semblance of order. When everyone is priority, nobody wins.

I'm more in favor of restricted use trails or trails that give priority to certain users.
Originally Posted by Digger Goreman
It seems tbat MUPs are rarely the problem.... It's the selfish, narcissistic, clueless humans that bollocks the experience....
Originally Posted by gear64
I have few issues with MUPs in general. They are what they are, a collective resource. Mostly an open green space with regard to the ones I ride here, and I generally expect the unexpected. I have no expectation that they will be motor vehicle road organized

Dogs will bound, toddlers will wander, toddlers on bikes will veer etc, etc. I use them for lazy rides and short connectors.

When I want to get up and go I ride in the street. My biggest frustration is other cyclists that treat them as high speed training venues, particularly riding in pace lines, and god forbid they have to touch a brake lever.
I have previously posted to a few threads about this spin-off discussion about MUPS:
Originally Posted by canklecat
]If we ride often enough on MUPs we've all seen people parking in the middle of the path to chatter with another cyclist/jogger/dog walker, etc., mess with their phones, tie their shoes or loiter for no apparent reason.

And we've all seen wannabe racers riding too fast for conditions...

That's life on the multi-use path. Always been that way. Always will be. It's just the nature of the thing...Jerks are gonna jerk. But most folks are pretty cool about using the MUP. I prefer to keep the latter in mind
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
+1…Nicely said. ...My own thought is that a MUP is not so much a commuter route, or training venue, but a pastoral park, where people can enjoy themselves without too many worries, and needn’t be always vigilant, as is a cyclist on the Road....

My own Golden Rule of Cycling is “Do unto the Pedestrians, as you would have the Cagers do unto you.
Originally Posted by genec
I find it quite interesting that so many "avowed cyclists" here fail to see the parallels between MUP users and roadway users, and fail to offer the same courtesy to MUP users in front of them that they expect from motorists overtaking those same cyclists on the roadways .
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
IMO the vast majority of pedestrians on a MUP / Bikepath are more likely motorists rather than cyclists, and do not share the opinion that they do not belong on the Path....

So I don’t expect pedestrians to show the same respect to cyclists, as we have to show toward cars i.e. “share the road.”

Especially since those users likely paid more [in aggregate] to construct the Path as their refuge from driving.So why should cyclists, likely the minority of users, take over these public spaces?
"Every parent's crotch fruit..." That says a lot.
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Old 05-11-20, 03:36 PM
  #234  
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Left ear

In Calif. Illegal/earphone in left ear.
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Old 05-11-20, 03:39 PM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by djs42
Possibly. But it certainly was her mistake to wear earphones while cycling.
Now her family, the driver of the vehicle, and anyone else involved has to deal with her decision for the rest of their lives.
No, wearing headphones had nothing to do with it! The collision was caused by her not checking to see if the lane was clear before she turned.
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Old 05-11-20, 03:40 PM
  #236  
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its why we have laws

Yes, unfortunately society has to have laws to protect some citizens from themselves and the majority from those citizens, either due to ignorance our simply selfishness. Generally we don't need laws for most things, "there is no specific law regarding dont ride your bike backwards while blindfolded", and its only apparently common things that have to be put into law that some people just try and get away with. It should be obvious to most people that starting up your lawn mower at 3 am is not the right thing to do, but no, municipalities have to have bylaws stating what hours these devices are permitted between, because some either dont care about their neighbours or are simply ignorant that noise may effect others..

Same goes for driving with headphones in my country, its illegal whether car, bus or bike......its different to having a speaker, as the headphones can block external noise, but then again, that is why we have a law, because some are just ignorant and or selfish of the situation.
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Old 05-11-20, 03:42 PM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat
This is exactly what I’ve been trying to communicate, thank you!. Unless you watch the car somehow, you don’t know if it’s going to hit you, you don’t know if the driver is impaired, you don’t know if the driver is distracted, you don’t know if the driver is wearing a hat (and therefore poses untold additional danger).

The part about somehow watching the car...as has been mentioned by Jim from Boston , a mirror can be used. I don’t personally feel I could tell if a car was on a path that would hit me in a small rear view mirror, but maybe I’m wrong. So let me ask, if you use a rear view mirror and a car is on a trajectory that will strike you, how far back can you tell this? In feet or meters.

If we could have a couple of answers to that question, I believe I can make an argument that considering the difference in speed between the bike and the car, there won’t be enough time to react. I could be wrong, but I’d like to do the math.

In other words, it seems to me that even if you don’t take your eyes off the approaching car, by the time you reasonably believe it’s going to strike you, there won’t be enough time to remove yourself from the car’s path. Am I wrong?

This is why I run a rear blinky light and hope for the best. I think I will pick up a radar rear blinky like, but that’s because it will help eliminate surprise close passes by those Ninja-like electric cars.
Like I said, I can not just hear the car but hear it slowing and know it's going to turn. If I could see it in a mirror I am not sure I could even tell that visually but it's very obvious from the sound. If it's going to hit from behind at full speed then getting out of the way would be difficult, but the bike radar would work for that on country roads and similar places. There's pretty much always a car within 500 foot behind you or less if you go out on the road so probably wouldn't do anything here.
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Old 05-11-20, 03:49 PM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by Oneder
Like I said, I can not just hear the car but hear it slowing and know it's going to turn. If I could see it in a mirror I am not sure I could even tell that visually but it's very obvious from the sound. If it's going to hit from behind at full speed then getting out of the way would be difficult, but the bike radar would work for that on country roads and similar places. There's pretty much always a car within 500 foot behind you or less if you go out on the road so probably wouldn't do anything here.
You’re telling me you can not only hear the car behind you but you can tell it’s going to hit you? How does that work? That’s not hearing, that’s ESP.
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Old 05-11-20, 03:54 PM
  #239  
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Originally Posted by yukiinu
In Calif. Illegal/earphone in left ear.
It's prohibited to have them in both ears, but the statute is silent as which one.

West's Ann.Cal.Vehicle Code § 27400
§ 27400. Limitation on use of headsets, earplugs, or earphones; exceptions
Currentness
A person operating a motor vehicle or bicycle may not wear a headset covering, earplugs in, or earphones covering, resting on, or inserted in, both ears. This prohibition does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person operating authorized emergency vehicles, as defined in Section 165.
(b) A person engaged in the operation of either special construction equipment or equipment for use in the maintenance of any highway.
(c) A person engaged in the operation of refuse collection equipment who is wearing a safety headset or safety earplugs.
(d) A person wearing personal hearing protectors in the form of earplugs or molds that are specifically designed to attenuate injurious noise levels. The plugs or molds shall be designed in a manner so as to not inhibit the wearer's ability to hear a siren or horn from an emergency vehicle or a horn from another motor vehicle.
(e) A person using a prosthetic device that aids the hard of hearing.
Obviously, if you're riding on the right side of the road, it makes the most sense to leave the left ear open.
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Old 05-11-20, 03:56 PM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by sacr
Yes, unfortunately society has to have laws to protect some citizens from themselves and the majority from those citizens, either due to ignorance our simply selfishness. Generally we don't need laws for most things, "there is no specific law regarding dont ride your bike backwards while blindfolded", and its only apparently common things that have to be put into law that some people just try and get away with. It should be obvious to most people that starting up your lawn mower at 3 am is not the right thing to do, but no, municipalities have to have bylaws stating what hours these devices are permitted between, because some either dont care about their neighbours or are simply ignorant that noise may effect others..

Same goes for driving with headphones in my country, its illegal whether car, bus or bike......its different to having a speaker, as the headphones can block external noise, but then again, that is why we have a law, because some are just ignorant and or selfish of the situation.
And yet literally millions of people do it every day without incident. And in many places it is not illegal. I rather enjoy the freedom to decide for myself what is safe or unsafe...based on facts.

Not everyone who thinks differently than you is ignorant of selfish.
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Old 05-11-20, 04:03 PM
  #241  
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat
And yet literally millions of people do it every day without incident. And in many places it is not illegal. I rather enjoy the freedom to decide for myself what is safe or unsafe...based on facts.

Not everyone who thinks differently than you is ignorant of selfish.
As long as you don't endanger the safety of others while doing it.

if you're on the road... sure. you vs a car, the car wins.
if you're on a MUP... as long as you're faster than everyone else. Then you don't need to hear anyone passing since no one can.

And YES, earbuds are better than over the ear headphones. And one ear bud is better than 2.

It's just my experience that the majority of people with earbuds are surprised when I pass them even though I call out loud enough before I pass.
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Old 05-11-20, 04:07 PM
  #242  
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Jim’s posts are longer than CVS receipts.
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Old 05-11-20, 04:07 PM
  #243  
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Originally Posted by GlennR
It's just my experience that the majority of people with earbuds are surprised when I pass them even though I call out loud enough before I pass.
That’s pretty much my experience too. When I see a runner or walker wearing any type of headset, I just pass extra carefully and don’t say anything. If I call out loud enough to be heard it often scares them and they react unreliably.
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Old 05-11-20, 04:11 PM
  #244  
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat
That’s pretty much my experience too. When I see a runner or walker wearing any type of headset, I just pass extra carefully and don’t say anything. If I call out loud enough to be heard it often scares them and they react unreliably.
That's the problem... many times they turn counter clockwise which means that move into your lane.

I also slow down because right or wrong having a collision is not good for anyone.
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Old 05-11-20, 04:13 PM
  #245  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985
So yes, it is possible to react to potentially dangerous passes if you decide to stay alert. But unfortunately, it's probably not possible to react if a person decides not to stay alert (i.e., headphones).
I agree. I think it's safe to assume that if you have that information - your reaction time and therefore decision making are affected. It won't give you the ability to predict the future, but I'd simply rather have every possible advantage, especially considering the way people drive where I live. For example I ride lots of curvy roads in the foothills and mountains and a car coming up speeding wildly around blind turns sounds different than one going slower, navigating the road less aggro.
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Old 05-11-20, 04:20 PM
  #246  
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Originally Posted by buttnerd
There was this lady riding along what at 5:30am not a busy road. She decided to make a left from the bike lane into my street. She didn't live to make it to the other side of the road. For that reason no. Her iTunes was still playing when we got to her. Besides, all the sounds that you might enjoy hearing will be missed.
So a cyclist was riding at night/barely dawn when visibility is limited. The cyclist attempted to go from a far right lane(bike lane) across a lane of same direction traffic, then across an oncoming lane of traffic.
At some point in this process, she was hit.

That is awful to know.
I'm not sure why headphones are the culprit here.
Darkness could have played a role. Her lot looking for same direction traffic could have played a role. Her not seeing same direction traffic could have played a role. Her not seeing oncoming traffic could have played a role.
The driver not seeing her could have played a role.

All those possibilities are very much real and not just cheap excuses. Who knows why it happened. Misdirected blame by you, at least based on what you've posted.
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Old 05-11-20, 04:49 PM
  #247  
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat
And yet literally millions of people do it every day without incident. And in many places it is not illegal. I rather enjoy the freedom to decide for myself what is safe or unsafe...based on facts.

Not everyone who thinks differently than you is ignorant of selfish.
Yes, some jurisdictons are just slow in catching up, much the same way that most are slow on banning hands free phones for the drivers in car, yes its proven to increase incidents. You are welcome to freedoms on your own land, house, but when you are in a public space then your actions can impact others - hence why we have laws and dont let individuals decide for themselves what they think is an appropriate speed limit etc.
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Old 05-11-20, 05:05 PM
  #248  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
Jim’s posts are longer than CVS receipts.
Imagine if CVS receipts all started with "On a previous visit to the store, you purchased ..." , and never included any new purchases.
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Old 05-11-20, 05:18 PM
  #249  
Bamabikerntexas
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Originally Posted by Tophy_Dee
Safe or unsafe? I’ve seen some other cyclists with air pods and other headphones on and though what a great idea to listen to some tunes while riding. But then I realized maybe it’s not such a good idea? Can’t hear if cyclists are coming up behind or if there’s cars or sirens. Basically can’t hear anything at all!
What are your thoughts on this and if you do listen to music, any tips to be able listen and keep safe at the same time?
If I’m on a well defined bike path or lane I use ear buds. If I’m in traffic conditions I use one the right one (non traffic side). I also continuously check my mirror.
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Old 05-11-20, 05:19 PM
  #250  
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Originally Posted by sacr
Yes, some jurisdictons are just slow in catching up, much the same way that most are slow on banning hands free phones for the drivers in car, yes its proven to increase incidents. You are welcome to freedoms on your own land, house, but when you are in a public space then your actions can impact others - hence why we have laws and dont let individuals decide for themselves what they think is an appropriate speed limit etc.
Wearing headphones is proven to increase incidents? Can you back up that claim with a reference, please?
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