Vinz1590

Hello everyone. I am new here and have no experience in folding bikes. As the title states, I am in a search for the best folding bike for my needs. I am currently living in Japan (temporary) as a foreigner and below are my requirements (from highest to lowest priority):

1. Ride comfort - I will be commuting to work with 8km distance (one way) and maybe have a long distance ride/stroll during weekends.
2. Utility - I will also use this bike for my daily errands and grocery shopping so a rear and front luggage option is needed. Sometimes I will also mount a 10kg of rice on it (a typical Japan necessity).
3. Fold - I will be folding this everyday to park inside my flat and in my workplace there is a secured bike parking so no need for a quick fold. During bad weather, I want this bike also to be folded and carry in the subways when going home. Also, I will be bringing this bike to my country when I return so I need a bike that I can include in the baggage.


Here is my take from the models that I shortlisted based on my research:


Tyrell IVE Sports: A compact folder and can ride well but the compromise is the weight limit which affects items 2 above. I am also around 70kg and based on my research, 80kg is the limit of IVE.

Birdy: There is a cheaper model here in Japan that is called Birdy Air which utilizes caliper brakes instead of disc brakes. I heard that this is a very comfortable ride due to the suspensions and a decent fold. My problem is the lack of luggage options. Future upgradability of this bike is also sweet.

Tern Verge P10: Per my research, this bike is comfortable to ride and has several luggage options. I can also install a rapid transit rack which makes it good in moving around while folded. My only concern is the quality since Tern has a bad reputation in this category due to previous recalls. I don't know if the fold of this bike is small enough to include in the check-in baggage of airplane.



Any suggestions from the experts here? Or is it still the OG Brompton?

Thank you!!

Kabuto

How tall are you? Tyrell's models are designed for Japanese riders, so have handlebars positioned closer to the seat and a fairly short maximum saddle to pedal length compared with other brands. The Ive is probably the smallest of all Tyrell's models. I'm 183cm and even with the longest available (non-standard) seat post installed, the saddle to pedal length is still about 4cm too short (and about 8cm too short with the standard seat post) for me. I confirmed this at a Tyrell dealer in Tokyo. I also contacted Tyrell asking about custom options for more height and they said they offer none.

Regarding the Birdy, I don't see many with adjustable handleposts in Japan. Most seem to have shortish non-adjustable handleposts to suit the local market and replacement handleposts are expensive. But its a German design so is probably a better than the Ive if you're tall.

I have a Tern X11, which I believe has the same frame as the P10. Its a great bike and I've had zero problems with it. For more handlebar height, I swapped out the 290mm handlepost for a 350mm handlepost (purchased through the Tern online store based in Taiwan - wasn't cheap, but wasn't Birdy expensive either). Its also possible to adjust the Syntace stem to move the handlebar forward or backward to match your desired position. I'd steer clear of any electric motor Terns, but the P10 will be fine.

Edit: The Tern P10 (and I assume the other two options as well) can be disassembled and placed in a suitcase to be checked-in when flying. Tern offers the following kit for doing that. They also offer a suitcase but its available only at dealers, not online.

https://buy.ternbicycles.com/collect...cts/flightsuit

Vinz1590

Hi jonmanjiro, thank you for these info, as for my height, I am about 168cm (short enough for IVE?). As for the Birdy, there is a version here with an adjustable handpost but only in increments of 5 levels I think (still don't know if it will fit me well). I am actually leaning on the tern P10 or X11 as I think this suits all my requirements. How about the quality of the frame? I am not sure if the quality is upgraded from the ones that are recalled before. Also, do the difference of X11 from P10 justifies the big cost difference?

Thank you for your time. Cheers!

Kabuto

168cm tall? Oh, in that case the Ive would work for you. No problem regarding height there.

The Birdy Air has a fixed length handlepost I think. Seems quite short too.

I'm quite certain that, paint jobs aside, the P10 and X11 have the same frame which has been improved/upgraded for strength. I've never read or heard of anyone having problems with this frame.

If I were to buy again, I would buy a P10 instead of an X11 I think, as the P10 is in a nice price vs performance sweet spot. Yes, the X11 has nicer components, but its kindy pricey really (thought I did find a good deal) I'm sure I would have been perfectly happy with the very good components on the P10. And the P10 still has excellent hydraulic disk brakes. After experiencing the hydraulic disk brakes of the X11, I'm never going back to using caliper or V-brakes. The performance difference is night and day.

tomtomtom123

If you want cheap and even smaller, the dahon k3 plus 16" seems to only be on the Hong Kong dahon website. Has 16" wheels and I don't remember if a 9 or 10 speed cassette. Also disc brakes.

Vinz1590

jonmanjiro Yes, I think the P10 is the bang for the buck in the 451 verge line up now. How about the ride quality of your X11 both paved road and off-road? What do you think is the difference of it with the birdy?

Vinz1590

tomtomtom123. Ohh never heard of that, let me check. How about the luggage options for the k3?

Kabuto

My X11 rides great on smooth Japanese roads. But it runs narrow high pressure tires, so its not suited to riding off road and isn't so great on poor quality roads. Neither is the Tyrell Ive though. For off-road use, the Birdy would be better with its suspension, as long as its one of the models designed for that, such as the Birdy GT. Even with suspension, a bike running narrow high pressure tires isn't really suited to off-road use.

Also, consider the Dahon Horize. It has mechanical disk brakes rather than hydraulic, but it runs wide "balloon" tires that really make a difference in smoothing out bumps in the road. The stock tires are ok, but swapping them for Big Ben 55/406 tires would make the ride even plusher. Balloon tires are nearly as good as full suspension without the added complexity (something that always concerns me re the Birdy).

Jipe

The Tyrell and Birdy aren't in the same price + quality as the Tern. They are both higher quality bikes but also more expensive.

The Ive will surely fit for your size.

The Birdy will offer the best comfort due to its front and rear suspension and ability to accept 50mm wide tires like the Schwalbe Big Apple

There are racks for low rider on the fork and rear rack for rear pannier. There are also a lot of accessories and components from several third party manufacturers.

In Japan you should be able to get all the range of Pacific Cycles Birdy models that all have adjustable handlebar height. You can buy them online on the Pacific Cycles online store.

downtube

I would disregard the Term for many reasons. If suspension is important go with the Birdy, otherwise go with Tyrell. Both are excellent choices.

Thanks
Yan

tds101 

Avoid Tern, as they're still having instances of frame breakage. https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-b...rn-recall.html

Jipe

One more point: both the IVE and the Birdy fold smaller than most Tern models.

If you want or must) ride on bad roads or worse cobbles, the IVE will be quite uncomfortable and the Birdy is a much better choice.

pinholecam

I had the IVE and cycled with it to quite a few places/countries.

Your height is ok for the IVE.

Since you are in JPN, I'd say get the IVE or the Birdy as they are (or the particular model) is unique to JPN.
The IVE folds faster.
Light trails, are ok for the IVE, but the widest tire it can take is 1.65" (maybe 1.75" w/o fenders), this applies to the older model and I am not sure about the newer "sports" model.
None of the bikes will be suited for tougher trails as in my experience, you gain more from as wide a tire as possible on low pressure than narrow ones w/ suspension.
IMHO, you should ask at the shop you are buying from as Tyrell is a Japanese brand and they will usually have more information on the bike.

I write about my experiences with the IVE here :
https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-b...ns-review.html

Vinz1590

downtube tds101 Yes, this is my only concern on Tern bikes. So even the latest Verge 451 line up has this issue? Bummer, I love the racing looks of the verge.

Vinz1590

Jipe
Agree with you, and for the birdy to match the specs of Verge P10/X11, it will cost more, which I think is the Birdy R or R20? Regarding the front luggage option, do you have an idea if there is a 3rd party front luggage truss for the birdy, like the one for Brompton/Tern? Thanks for sharing your insight!

tds101 

I'm not following which models are at fault per se, but there's been brakages with more recent models. I own a Tern Joe P24. As much as I love it, I always wonder if it will fail on a ride.

Vinz1590

pinholecam
Thank you for sharing your insight! Actually, your thread regarding the IVE is my inspiration on shortlisting this wonderful bike. My concern is the weight limit which is 80kg, based also in your thread. Have you confirmed it? I checked the German site of Tyrell, and there is an IVE EU Version which states that the weight limit of IVE is 120kg. I don't know if this is also the same with the ones here in JPN. https://www.tyrellbike.de/en/news/ove...tyrell-models/

Cheers!!

Kabuto

Not that I know of. As an owner of a Verge X11, I have been paying very close attention to this, and I have not seen any failures reported for a bike in the latest Verge 451 line up.

AFAIK all the newly reported frame failures after the recalls (which were before the 451 line up was released) have been on bikes with electric motors.

Edit: If you're based in Tokyo, you should get yourself to several shops and view these bikes in person. If the shop doesn't have any test bikes, they will still let you sit on the bikes to see how they feel. I found that both the Tyrell and Birdy folds, while reasonably compact, are quite messy (wheels aren't aligned and point off at an angle). Doesn't look like you can roll the bikes in the folded state. The Tern fold is bulkier, but its also designed so that the bike rolls easily in the folded state (with the handelbars up). So horses for courses. You have to figure out what works for you. Also, since you're in Japan, here's another suggestion for you. The Iruka bike, only available in Japan. https://www.iruka.tokyo/en/

Jipe

There is a third party system for a front luggage like on the Brompton but it is attached t the frame with steel cables and isn't reliable (some user had their front luggage bag falling during their ride).

I managed to put a Brompton front block on my titanium Birdy by drilling two holes but this must be done very accurately and the titanium frame is stronger than the aluminum one.

One major difference between the Tern P10X11 (and most Tern and Dahon) is that the IVE and Birdy fold smaller and are much easier to carry folded than the Tern. The way the Tern fold is with a hinge in the middle of the frame (like many Dahon) while both IVE and Birdy have a singe piece frame without hinge and a more elaborated fold that produce a more compact folded bike (also in width).

Below a picture of my Birdy with Brompton front block

ttakata73

I'd get a Brompton if you go on crowded trains since you can stand above a folded one easily. You wouldn't want to stand above a folded Birdy or I've since they are wider. Birdy has no luggage block so your heels will hit a 10kg bag of rice in the back. All 3 others would ride much nicer than a Brompton but you can't beat a Brompton in crowded spaces or to take indoors. If ride quality is more important than a small fold the I've looks the best compromise. If ride quality is the most important then I'd go with a disc brake Birdy.

downtube

I can not confirm that the 451 Verges have had any failures. However, I can confirm that Tern's honesty & integrity has been compromised. I can't understand why anyone would buy from a company with a track record like theirs.

Thanks,
Yan

BromptonINrio

take care tyrell as the suspension block(the one that conects the seatpost to rear triangle) is cliped in with magnetics.
Do a search to hear from owners how weak those magnetics are and how you can end up in an acident with a folded rear weel under!

Jipe

This problem happened for an electric assist folding bike with a rear hub motor, the Vellobike+ and as far as I know, only one user mentioned this problem that seems to come from the motor still pushing while braking with the front brake.

Brompton had no locking system at all for its rear triangle for decades and this never caused any accident.

BromptonINrio

they, thanks for clarification.
i read that report and become very worried about these bike folding under.
​​​​​​as the brompton with no rear locking is a great point in to these matter, but brompton have a very longer weelbase compared to other 16"(like dahon curve) and its more stable.
i would have one tyrell ive
​​​​​

Vinz1590

Jipe
Nice mod! Unfortunately, I don't know if this is feasible on an aluminum frame. Maybe if I will choose the birdy, I am just stuck with the rear rack and a klickfix luggage truss that attaches to the seat post. I am not a fan of the pannier bags front rack of the birdy, but hey I can use it as a handle while rolling the bike hehe. Very expensive handle.