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Real time tracking for others?

Old 10-27-15, 11:48 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by bmike
You know what's great? There are so many ways to stay in touch with folks an share what we are doing out in the world.
You know what else is great? There's no right or wrong way to ride a bicycle on a tour.

If you want to fall off the radar for weeks on end - great.
If you want to only share your photos via a data hogging privacy sucking corporate controlled website like Facebook - that's great too.
If you use an app or a phone and tweet or track or send your location to friends and family or the whole world - that's also cool.
If you buy a device that sends out a tracking ping when you tell it (SPOT check in) or a tracking ping at a set interval - that's cool too.

You know what sucks? Telling people they are doing it wrong when thy specifically ask for experiences with tracking apps or devices.
I strongly agree. Thanks for posting this. The chest-thumping naysayers needed to be put in their place.
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Old 10-28-15, 12:06 AM
  #52  
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When my wife and I tour, we use a Spot with the tracker option. My father in-law gets up early to follow our ride (we usually hit the road around 3:00 AM). He's nearly ninety years old and this is fun and entertaining for him. Someday I need to learn to work the ridewithgps stuff so we can upload gps-tagged photos for him to see; he'll like that too. We have a few other friends and relatives who get the data just in case something should happen and so they have some idea of when we will be back if they happen to be tending our animals or plants for us.

The cost is moderate, although far from free, and it gives us some benefit. For others, it may not be worth it. I bought the thing when I was heading out for a short tour and my wife wanted to know where I was in case she needed to pick me up. I was heading down from Eugene to Davis and had a date I needed to arrive by. She was heading the same way but was going to choose between driving and taking the train. If I managed to take too long on logging roads in the hills, which I much prefer to the crowded flat coastal roads, then she would drive and I'd head to an easy-to-find meeting place.
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Old 05-18-16, 06:44 PM
  #53  
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My Garmin 520 has a live tracking function. It sucked my battery dry really fast. The only way I'd use it again would be to carry a mobile battery backup. But then you have the weight.
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Old 05-19-16, 05:44 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Day Early
My Garmin 520 has a live tracking function. It sucked my battery dry really fast. The only way I'd use it again would be to carry a mobile battery backup. But then you have the weight.
Sounds like you have a bad battery. I have used Garmin Live Track for a couple of years now and find the battery drain is negligible.6-8 hour rides leave plenty of juice in Garmin and cell phone.
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Old 05-19-16, 07:06 AM
  #55  
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I haven't seen this option for android phones listed so thought I would add it in.


On my phone I have it so that my spouse can send me an text with a specific keyword and it will send her back my current location in a google maps link.

This is accomplished via an app called Tasker for android phones. It's provides infinity more flexibility that a find my friend type app. It takes a little more effort because your have to program it, it's not hard and lots of existing scripts are out there already, the benefit it it will do exactly what you want.

In my case it will only send my location to my spouse and only when she texts my keyword but that came be changed to just about anything you want depending just by changing the script.

For those out there in the Android world.

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Old 05-19-16, 07:31 AM
  #56  
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I don't think anyone else mentioned this. I use "Real Time GPS Tracker 2" on Android.

It has configurable check-in intervals and my wife can follow on her phone or online.

Set for every 10 minutes, it's not horrible on battery (I don't recall what the maximum is). It's not 100% accurate at that interval since it just connects the points with straight lines. But when I'm using this all day I'll connect it to my dyno hub or an external battery so my phone doesn't die unexpectedly.

It makes my wife more comfortable and I don't have to find a riding companion.

I think I'd probably prefer a spot tracker for a long tour, but with how infrequently I take multi-day trips this works well enough for my purposes.
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Old 05-19-16, 08:50 AM
  #57  
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Chest thumping nay sayers put in their place? Wow. This is a discussion forum... where ideas get discussed and that sometimes means people don't automatically agree with your idea.

I don't use a tracking system because I am not filled with fear when I go on a bike tour and don't want to be controlled by other people who are filled with fear. I can take care of myself is the message I give my friends and family and they just have to live with that. I also have no way of tracking them every minute of the day when I am on tour and could not tell you if my wife was locked in a closet or if my mother in law fell down and broke a hip. They are grown ups and just have to solve those problems for themselves while I'm away... If they can be expected to, why can't I.

This is really a problem of the smartphone generation where people feel the need to be connected 24/7. Having not grown up in this era I feel no need. I don't think that's chest thumping, just my opinion based on my belief and experience YMMV.

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Old 05-20-16, 09:46 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
Chest thumping nay sayers put in their place? Wow. This is a discussion forum... where ideas get discussed and that sometimes means people don't automatically agree with your idea.

I don't use a tracking system because I am not filled with fear when I go on a bike tour and don't want to be controlled by other people who are filled with fear. I can take care of myself is the message I give my friends and family and they just have to live with that. I also have no way of tracking them every minute of the day when I am on tour and could not tell you if my wife was locked in a closet or if my mother in law fell down and broke a hip. They are grown ups and just have to solve those problems for themselves while I'm away... If they can be expected to, why can't I.

This is really a problem of the smartphone generation where people feel the need to be connected 24/7. Having not grown up in this era I feel no need. I don't think that's chest thumping, just my opinion based on my belief and experience YMMV.
Why invoke fear?

Like you, I grew up, toured, went camping, hung out in bad neighborhoods, and neglected to wear clean underwear on a regular basis for decades before cell phones were a common necessity. Not only did I survive, but I thrived. I developed a strong sense of independence and self-reliance that continues to serve me well today.

That doesn't mean an electronic check in or tracking is a bad thing. I'm reminded of my adopted grandfather who grew up farming 40 acres one row at a time with a mule (literally). When he finally had to quit farming (to take care of his wife), he was driving an air conditioned tractor with a 2 way radio, stereo, and ergonomic seats. The first day he planted with a 12 row planter, he climbed down from the cab and said "Anyone who talks to you about the good old days is full of $hit! THESE are the good day!"

I don't use live track or carry a cell phone because I'm in fear. I do those things for the same reason I carry a patch kit and a multi-tool. I'm simply covering the bases.

FWIW, my wife and mother-in-law have cell phones, too, and if no one hears from them for an extended period of time, we go check on them. That's not fear, it's just recognition that being "checked on" from time to time is better than spending days laying in te floor with a broken hip.

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Old 05-20-16, 11:27 PM
  #59  
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I guess my take is that like 99% of bike tourers out there, it's highly unlikely I will be laying around for days unnoticed because I don't have a gps tracker. For those who are truly "out there" I can see a point, and if people just want something to follow ones progress from an interest POV I see that too, but I fail to see what issue they resolve otherwise other than pandering to people unrealistic fears and need to either neurotically know where someone is minute by minute or be minded by someone for a false sense of security.

Knowing where I am doesn't "help me" more than properly preparing a trip plan, having the equipment needed for conditions and developing a core set of survival type skills. The problem I see, as it has developed with cell phone use in general, is people minimize those points because, if they need to, they will just call for help. People don't take what they need for hiking or even know how to change a spare tire. People on this board have even advocated not taking a tool kit because they will just call a taxi if they break down. You will not be any safer because someone knows where you are every minute of the day any more than if you prepare properly and use a certain degree of caution in how you travel.

When I talk about bike touring with others there are many who ask "are you going with someone else?" to which I reply no. They then seem very concerned that I would travel alone. That is because from their limited experience of not doing so it seems dangerous but from my perspective it is not. I will not cater to their POV by strapping a GPS unit to me so they can feel more secure about my decision. That is their fear and they have to learn to deal with it in the same way that I have to learn to deal with my fears when my wife goes off on a vacation without me. I tell her to have a good time and call when she can but at some point I have to trust she will have the skills to deal with life as it presents itself to her. I have a long history of traveling and acting alone so my wife has developed an acceptance of my abilities or at least, assurance in the size of my life insurance policy.

I also dive quite a bit and probably 90 percent of my diving is solo in remote settings. I am very aware that in those settings there is zero chance of rescue yet that reality does not make what I do any more dangerous than the many divers who frequent more local sites with buddies. The knowledge of no rescue means that I have to prepare and execute my dives properly and operate in a conservative manner, something that other divers neglect because of the false sense of security proximity to others presents them. I tour in the same way.

Will a gps keep me any safer on a bike tour? Not one bit. It will not stop whatever is going to happen to me from happening yet it may make someone less cautious because they "think" help will be close at hand. I prefer to minimize the chance of incident rather than exaggerate the perceived response to incident because my sense is that is where real safety lies. Rather than having a device that will show where I am when I am lost I prefer to have the skills to not get lost in the first place and/or the skills to be able to extricate myself. Most tourers will not be so isolated that a passer by will not see if they are injured as most likely, it will have been a car or road side accident that did it to them.

I could go on and on but my main point is I believe in self reliance and, because that is my belief system, I do not believe in re enforcing someone else's belief that revolves around reliance on others, and I highly doubt someone who wears a gps because it makes someone else feel more secure doesn't also have a bunch of other conditions placed upon their travel. Appeasing neurosis doesn't end it, it only feeds the believe that there is a real reason for concern behind it.

Again, that's just my 2CW and I fully accept that other peoples take may be different.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 05-20-16 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 05-21-16, 12:10 AM
  #60  
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Glympse is free and it works great. Any app that enables real-time tracking from your phone will use up your battery quickly because it leaves GPS enabled and sends frequent updates to a server, and Glympse is no exception. Try it before your trip, though, to see if it will fit your needs.

https://www.glympse.com/
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Old 05-23-16, 07:21 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
I could go on and on but my main point is I believe in self reliance and, because that is my belief system, I do not believe in re enforcing someone else's belief that revolves around reliance on others, and I highly doubt someone who wears a gps because it makes someone else feel more secure doesn't also have a bunch of other conditions placed upon their travel. Appeasing neurosis doesn't end it, it only feeds the believe that there is a real reason for concern behind it.
I too believe in self reliance, but I also believe in being considerate to my spouse. If letting her see my position using a GPS makes her feel better, I see no reason not to. She places no restrictions on my travel, because this is not about control or neurosis.. it's about mutual respect. It is unlikely that her knowing my position will ever be useful, but she feels better knowing it.

I've never used it on a day trip other than for testing purposes. I let her know my intended route and when I get to my destination.

I leave for every trip with everything (hopefully) I need to repair my bike or at least limp it along to the nearest bike shop. Obviously there is the possibility that I'll have to flag down someone with a truck for transport purposes, but short of a taco'd wheel or other major mechanical issue that shouldn't be necessary.
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Old 05-23-16, 01:32 PM
  #62  
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Well, reviewing my posts I can admit they were a bit perhaps strident. I should say I am speaking mainly from/for myself.

But, just from a discussion POV, does anyone really need to know where someone else is every moment of the day? How did we get to this place.

This is really the first point in the entire history of human kind that such a thing was possible and very quickly it is becoming perceived, not just a luxury or curiosity but some form of necessity. Did all of mankind in all of the past not respect each other when they walked out the door each morning? I respect my wife and she respects me and one way we show that respect is by allowing each some freedom to act independently without an electronic "check up on where you are" device. If I made my wife call me five times a day to tell me where she was on her holiday I would be labeled a controlling spouse - yet feeling obligated to wear a passive device that basically does the same thing is seen as respectful?

The jealous spouse follows the other around town because they feel a real need to know where they are, although others would say it is insecurity and fear at play. What "need" therefore, is being fulfilled for a spouse or other party to know where the other is every moment of the day when they are on vacation?

It seems to be no big deal because it is passive and one does not have to intentionally phone in a location constantly but the ease of implementation should not diminish the underlying premise. If anything, it should be alarming how easily one allows themselves to have their sense of autonomy be co oped in the name of safety and security.

I just want to say again I am voicing my idea about this as it seems in my mind. I really don't care what others do and don't want to sound like I'm judging someone else for their choice. The subject interests me so I am commenting, that's all.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 05-23-16 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 05-24-16, 07:57 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
But, just from a discussion POV, does anyone really need to know where someone else is every moment of the day? How did we get to this place.
Short answer: Because we can. Same reason we do a lot of things. Things that were once considered a luxury quick become considered necessities. Like indoor plumbing, automobiles, computers, and high speed internet.

Originally Posted by Happy Feet
I respect my wife and she respects me and one way we show that respect is by allowing each some freedom to act independently without an electronic "check up on where you are" device. If I made my wife call me five times a day to tell me where she was on her holiday I would be labeled a controlling spouse - yet feeling obligated to wear a passive device that basically does the same thing is seen as respectful?
It depends on the circumstances. Traveling alone in a foreign country is completely different than vacationing in Miami with friends. You wouldn't be seen as controlling if you requested that she checked in periodically from the foreign country versus when she was with friends.

Originally Posted by Happy Feet
It seems to be no big deal because it is passive and one does not have to intentionally phone in a location constantly but the ease of implementation should not diminish the underlying premise. If anything, it should be alarming how easily one allows themselves to have their sense of autonomy be co oped in the name of safety and security.
While I see your point, IMO the fact that it is passive does make it different. From my point of view, it's unreasonable for my wife to ask me to text her every 10 minutes with my location. However, to have my phone automatically do it, then there's no inconvenience for me. Simply put, I don't see a downside to allowing her to know where I am. It's completely unnecessary, but so are a lot of things people do on a daily basis. But in the end, I don't really see a downside to my wife knowing where I am... only potential upsides should I need to be located for some reason.

As a side note, on my first 60 mile bike ride I did provide my location every 1 - 3 hours... both of us were nervous because it was such a new concept to both of us. Last summer I rode 90 miles and simply let her know when I got there. She knew my intended route if I never showed up.
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Old 05-24-16, 08:01 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
It seems to be no big deal because it is passive and one does not have to intentionally phone in a location constantly but the ease of implementation should not diminish the underlying premise. If anything, it should be alarming how easily one allows themselves to have their sense of autonomy be co oped in the name of safety and security.
I'm really interested in your perspective on this... not trying to argue.

So I guess maybe I need to ask a few questions to try to understand.

What is your aversion to your wife knowing where you are when you're on one of your solo endeavors? Does it detract from your experience somehow? Or do you feel that you would be less self reliant if you knew you had a potential lifeline?
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Old 05-24-16, 08:32 AM
  #65  
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I am not opposed to anyone knowing where I am at any given time perse but think about the underlying motivations that permeate the idea of passive tracking.

First, from a practical perspective it offers no real advantage to anyone. It does not help to constantly know where I am, most of the time for touring. It will not prevent an accident and any "rescue" will probably not come from that source, remembering that it only tells location and not condition.

From a psychological perspective it probably creates more problems than it solves IMO. It delays or prevents a necessary maturing process of letting go of another individual and trusting in their, and life's, ability to cope. I have a teenage daughter and believe me, I know how hard it is to let her walk out the door without wanting to know where she is constantly. But that is a part of life and I would not be growing as a father and human (I think) if I tried to prevent that letting go by strapping a gps unit to her. The same holds true when someone goes on a cycling vacation. I love my wife but feel it would cater to an unnatural need to placate that "letting go" process to allow myself to be tracked 24/7. To understand it just flip the script and suggest gps tracking of the other spouse if they go on vacation. It would seem controlling to most and I see bike touring as pretty low on the risk scale in terms of "need to know" 24/7 location. Of course, there are some times when isolated touring might argue against that but most of the time tourers are on roads that are frequently traveled by others.

I do believe in checking in of course, but retain the power of choice as to when that occurs. Even though I am a law abiding citizen I might object to the idea for my employer or law enforcement to put tracking devices on me for the notion of increased safety and security so the only reason I can see doing it for my spouse would be to minimize her fear of letting me go off by myself and trusting to my abilities.

I also think too much information at times can be a negative. When I leave my wife knows I am out there, somewhere, and as long as I check in at the agreed upon times all is well more or less. With real time tracking the person does not let go and may constantly wonder what is happening at that moment. Why is he stopping at that spot for 5 hours, is he hurt, should I call the hwy patrol to look? Why is he staying at that hotel for two nights, is he alone, it's in a seedy part of town, should I call the manager to check on him... A little OTT perhaps but only having half the information for a person who feels the need to constantly know what's going on can create more ungrounded fear than not. I suspect it may result in more calls on the cell phone to see what's happening than not which, in that case, why not ditch the tracker and just call more frequently. I bet everyone with a tracker also has a cell phone.

And lastly, I do enjoy the idea of getting away from it all for awhile. Because I do a lot of stuff alone I am very realistic about assessing risk and fall on the cautious side (if you accept solo as not being a risk). Part of that assessment is understanding what others knowing my whereabouts will do to aid me. Practically nothing except perhaps, morbidly, assist in body recovery. Psychologically, I think believing I have a "get out of jail free" card would only reduce my situational awareness and lead me to take bigger risks than if I believe I need to plan both my entrance and exits. I am kind of into the mental approach because when you are alone it is the mental game that really determines almost everything you do.
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Old 05-24-16, 08:53 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
From a psychological perspective it probably creates more problems than it solves IMO.
Your whole response is very well thought out. I think I agree with most of it.

Based on past experience my wife isn't going to be watching the screen to wait for my dot to move on the map (on every ride I've experimented with the tracking I had to open the web site when I got home to see how it worked). The only circumstance that she would check it is if I failed to check in at a pre-determined time and didn't respond to a phone call / text messages within a reasonable time frame (meaning hours, not minutes).

This goes back to my original experience of my 60 mile bike ride. It is new to my wife and me. With new things, there's uncertainty. Having the ability to determine my last known location alleviates some of that uncertainty. I much prefer it to having a riding companion, which was another thing we had considered.

If I went on multi-day bike trips on a regular basis, I believe I would share your perspective more strongly. However, I don't. This summer will likely be my only multi-day bike trip. So it's not something we need to learn and grow from.
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Old 05-24-16, 09:27 AM
  #67  
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Your situation is why I wanted to say I was speaking from my own perspective, which may not have come across in earlier posts and I agree that there may be some situations (isolated locals) where a tracker may be a benefit. And of course, if someone just enjoys following someone else's progress why not - we do the same with blogs and journals.
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Old 05-25-16, 08:10 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
Your situation is why I wanted to say I was speaking from my own perspective, which may not have come across in earlier posts and I agree that there may be some situations (isolated locals) where a tracker may be a benefit. And of course, if someone just enjoys following someone else's progress why not - we do the same with blogs and journals.
Yea, for some reason I love following the moving dots on the Trans Am Bike Race. That event intrigues me.
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Old 05-25-16, 02:41 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
I am not opposed to anyone knowing where I am at any given time perse but think about the underlying motivations that permeate the idea of passive tracking.
I think you are making a lot of assumptions. Are there people who depend on being connected at all times? Yes. Are there people for whom this connectedness reduces their self reliance? Yes. Does that mean this is the one and only valid perspective on the issue? Of course not.

An example/analogy - When I travel for pleasure, I take my laptop and cell phone. Occasionally other vacationers will object to this, suggesting I abandon my electronics so I can relax. What they don't take into account is that I am a sole proprietor, I service customers whose financial well being depends on my services, and the market trades for 18 hours a day 250+ days a year.

Prior to the widespread availability of cell and wifi, it was nearly impossible for me to be away from my office for more than a long weekend, and even those were anxious events for me and my customers, given the lack of communication and inability to respond quickly to major market surprises. I went for well over a decade without being away from my office more that a few long weekends a year.

Now, however, I can take a week or more off at a time, and can spend most of the slow season away from the office if I simply check in with the market and key customers for 10-30 minutes a day. That frees me up to relax and enjy myself far more than I coudl if I "disconnected."

On my bike, Garmin live track is passive. If I decide to change my route mid-ride, there's no need to make a call or register the change in route. I simply go where I please, and my wife doesn't worry that I might be 30 miles away from where she thought I was if I should fail to show up at or near the appointed time.

For me (and others), tracking doesn't function as a tether. It functions to free me from the tethers. I'm still on the hook for repairs and weather either way.
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Old 05-25-16, 08:36 PM
  #70  
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Comparing a laptop to passive tracking is like mixing apples and oranges. You choose what to share with others and when. To make it more appropriate how about a laptop that makes public to someone else everything you look at or type, all the time.

You use the example of not having to tell your wife when you change you pre planned route but just as equally she could worry more because you changed your pre planned route. What's going on, why did you do that, is there something wrong? Seems a phone call or text will be needed for an explanation regardless. If I said I was riding to town A and the tracker says I'm in town B does that minimize concern or exacerbate it?

But really, I would ask why does your wife need to know you changed your route by 30 miles or why she would need to know where you are all the time. Do you know where she is 24/7? How does that positively impact her or you in any meaningful way? My wife knows I'm somewhere between point A and point B. If I need her, I'll call. Otherwise all's well.

On the weekends my wife works and I go for a ride. I drop her off and she says "what are you doing?" and I say "going for a ride, see you after work." She doesn't need to know where I am and I assume she is at work. Not to be morbid but either I'll show up, call her or I've been smoked by a car and the police will phone. Having a tracking device doesn't change any of that or make it "better" in any way. The idea is based on a false assumption that it will. It will only make her look at her phone more to see where I am instead of letting me go and trusting in life and my abilities.

You either let the bird fly or keep it in a cage. In this case the cage is an electronic leash and it doesn't make it any less so because you put the leash on yourself or because you can't actively feel it. It's a step backwards from mental strength and independence to psychological dependence. That's just my POV; your POV may vary and I accept that. I merely suggest that every human has a need to confront the fear of letting a loved one go to act independently. The mother and child need to separate on the first day of kindergarden, the parents need to let their children go off to college and spouses need to let each other go off on hunting trips and bicycle tours or girls weekends alone. I see trackers, when used in a certain way, as a delay in this process.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 05-25-16 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 05-26-16, 03:08 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
Comparing a laptop to passive tracking is like mixing apples and oranges.
Apparently, you missed the point. The point was that some people see being connected as being tethered. Others can use being connected to free themselves.



Originally Posted by Happy Feet
You use the example of not having to tell your wife when you change you pre planned route but just as equally she could worry more because you changed your pre planned route. What's going on, why did you do that, is there something wrong? Seems a phone call or text will be needed for an explanation regardless. If I said I was riding to town A and the tracker says I'm in town B does that minimize concern or exacerbate it?

But really, I would ask why does your wife need to know you changed your route by 30 miles or why she would need to know where you are all the time. Do you know where she is 24/7? How does that positively impact her or you in any meaningful way? My wife knows I'm somewhere between point A and point B. If I need her, I'll call. Otherwise all's well.
I'm happy you and your wife have a system that works for you. I'm sorry, however, that you can't see why some people might appreciate or make use of passive tracking. It seems pretty obvious to me. But to avoid the inevitable "you didn't answer my question" post - My wife is not micromanaging my rides. She's not that concerned about why I decided to change my route midway through a ride. She simply wants to know where to start looking if I don't show up when I am supposed to. Passive tracking is one way to accomplish that.

I don't know where she is 24/7, but we do each have a pretty good idea where to find the other at any given time, and we check in if our schedule or route meaningfully deviates from what is expected. This isn't from fear or inability, but in our family is simply seen as common courtesy. It also proves practical for things like planning dinner, tending to unexpected errands, etc. In the unlikely event one of us should go missing, it provides a starting point for the search.

This isn't that hard to figure out. If this all sounds unattractive to you, you'll note the lacke of insistence anyone else adopt this practice. Live as you want to.

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Old 05-26-16, 04:00 PM
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Well, no need to feel sorry that I can't see why others might want passive tracking. I've made it very clear that I can see why others might enjoy it and have also made it very clear that my comments come from my POV and that others MMV. You are probably just sorry someone disagrees with you.

Twice you have mentioned passive tracking gives a starting point for a search. Fair point but I have to ask - how many times has someone had to search for you when they couldn't just call you on the cell phone? Since when did passive tracking become necessary?

Also, how exactly does passive tracking help with unexpected errands or planning dinner in a way a simple phone call wouldn't? Again, I just see people looking at the tracker, or not bothering, and picking up a phone to confirm plans regardless.

This attachment to connectivity is an interesting phenom that I attributed earlier to the larger smart phone movement. First people checked on their friends and family once in a while, then at work, then every moment they were not engaged, then even when they are driving or sitting on the can. It's become a reflexive need, not want, not to be alone. Easy access does not reduce or sate that desire rather, it seems to only amplify it. Just look around at human behavior with cell phones and needing to be connected. It's not a good thing for society IMO. Why would passive tracking for an activity that really doesn't need it be any different.
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Old 05-26-16, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
Twice you have mentioned passive tracking gives a starting point for a search. Fair point but I have to ask - how many times has someone had to search for you when they couldn't just call you on the cell phone? Since when did passive tracking become necessary?
Why would the answers to those questions be relevant? The cost of passive tracking is inconsequential, and it has the potential to be helpful. Some things you do because of the consequences of not doing them, not because of the likelihood of needing them.

Note that the argument isn't that passive tracking is NECESSARY. The argument is that passive tracking has the potential to be helpful.

FWIW, I was involved in a few search and rescue operations in the late 1970s and early/mid 1980s. We would have LOVED to have had a better starting point for our searches that "he said he was going to this particular location yesterday, but we haven't heard anything from him since." In some cases, a short search can be the difference between life and death. In every case, a short search is preferable to a long search.

It is possible to have a bike wreck in a remote location. Phones can lose signal, break, or run out of battery. Animals, malicious drivers, and/or other bad actors occasionally commit crimes against cyclists. I don't expect to have any of these things happen on any particular ride. If I did, I'd just stay home that day. But if they do, I'd just as soon someone have a better idea of where to start looking than "he was gone for X hours, and could have traveled at Y mph, so lets draw a big circle on the map."

Originally Posted by Happy Feet
This attachment to connectivity is an interesting phenom that I attributed earlier to the larger smart phone movement. First people checked on their friends and family once in a while, then at work, then every moment they were not engaged, then even when they are driving or sitting on the can. It's become a reflexive need, not want, not to be alone. Easy access does not reduce or sate that desire rather, it seems to only amplify it. Just look around at human behavior with cell phones and needing to be connected. It's not a good thing for society IMO. Why would passive tracking for an activity that really doesn't need it be any different.
There's a lot of assumptions and projections in that paragraph.
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Old 05-26-16, 06:30 PM
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I think the question is relevant but you do bring up a good counterpoint in a sense. For bike touring all sorts of things may have the potential to be helpful. A bike stand, several changes of clothing, 10 gallons of water, a dutch oven... and we all have to make the choices where along the spectrum we draw the line. In my case I see remote tracking to be unnecessary because I can't think of a situation that couldn't just as easily be handled by the smartphone most people who carry trackers would already have.

I have also served on a SAR team in the past and am very aware of the unintended consequence that ease of access cell phone use has created, chiefly, people not preparing properly because they assume they will simply "call" for help. When we talk about bike touring and passive tracking I also see the same issue. Either you will back up the tracker with a cell phone (which makes the tracker sort of pointless) or you set off unprepared assuming you are being tracked and not paying any sort of attention to where you are or what you are doing. The tracker does not prevent any sort of accident or incident from happening - it only affords the illusion of safety that someone, somewhere, will know where you are. In my mind, that is too little too late. I would rather put my eggs into strategies that prevent the incident in the first place.

I have discussed this issue quite a bit in diving where equipment based safety solutions are endemic. As you may guess I promote a counter argument of safety being centered in a skills based approach. Same here. I get the novelty aspect but if someone actually thinks passive tracking will keep them safer I would question exactly how that might occur and whether skills might just as easily address it. If I have a choice between a skill or piece of equipment I will usually choose skill. In this case I see passive tracking having no value in enhancing skills and only the potential to erode them.

That's just me. You may be different and that is ok. If we met on the road I wouldn't say much about it at all other than to show a curiosity about how it worked perhaps. But this is a discussion board so I am expressing my POV. I see argument (in the Greek sense) as a test of ideas. We discuss points and if they hold up to the test of argument perhaps they are valid, if not perhaps they need to be reconsidered.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 05-26-16 at 06:50 PM.
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