Tourist in MSN

During winter I spend an hour on an exercise bike at a gym, typically three times a week. But, that does not train my body to handle the longer endurance rides where I am relying on fats instead of carbs for fuel, so as early as I can get out in spring, I am doing multi-hour rides to build up endurance capacity. I will be out in spring before all the snow melts.

Yan 

He's not departing tomorrow. His tour is next year spring.

Trikes are more stable than bikes. That's why babies ride them.

djb

in a perfect world this would be great, just be aware that there is a very good chance that the dimensions of the bike may not allow you to get it the same as your bike. At any age, having the bars just that much too forward, or too low, and I'm talking a cm or half an inch, could very well present itself with your neck issues. Heck, I'm over 20 years younger than you and wouldnt want to take the risk of a not well fitting bike for such an expense of a trip, only to not be comfortable riding.

another point to bring up--lets say a rental bike does fit you well, if the gearing isn't low enough for carrying a few panniers or more of stuff and going up hills a lot, then that will very possibly bring in knee issues or other 83 year old body stuff--not fun.
At least you know what gearing works for you from your trip ten years ago, but all the older folks I know have told me for years that every decade has real differences in fitness and strength, so I'd be very aware of gearing and risking having a bike that has too high gearing--no fun at any age if very hilly.

Perhaps a moot point if you follow a route along canals or rivers, but something to be aware of if you are being responsible about foreseeing issues that could very well be a factor.

If you are not planning to bring camping gear, and are a good packer (your hiking experience etc would support this) then your pannier load could be rather light, a help with hills etc, but again--these are details that only you can assess, and hopefully be pragmatic about being no longer 73 and taking that into account, at least for planning daily distances.

oh, another point, travel insurance for any medical issues while on tour. Being over 80 will probably mean an increased cost, but proper research will give you answers.

tcs

Hey, I've been there in agony on a rental bike.

My bike set up for me with my saddle, my pedals, my grips and my gears:



If it came to that, you know, if I was facing the mother of all headwinds or 'slept funny' and woke up with a crick in my neck, I can raise and lower those bars some 15 cm from the position in which they're pictured.

When I go, I take it with me.

Pratt

Another Bruce Gordon fan here, 1991 Rock and Road. If I were planing a trip in Europe, I would be looking into shipping my bike. It rides great loaded on naked and there is an added enjoyment of a tour on an old friend.

John Martin

First a general comment: I've been a member of several forums over the years -- photography and various travel groups. THIS group is different. Thoughtful, responses. Postings that make it obvious that the poster read the earlier entries. And mostly, INFORMATIVE. It's obvious that you are more experienced than I. And, I learn a lot by reading your posts. A sincere "thank you" goes out to all who have helped me in planning my next adventure. To close the loop, I'll contribute where I can.

Re shipping my Bruce Gordon Rock and Road (my wife named it "Mike the Bike" for some crazy reason): I just can't seem to collect enough energy to handle the packaging necessary to haul it on the Atlanta metro rail ("Marta"), the airport struggles, the reassembly, the securing of the return packaging, return metro, etc., etc.. Maybe if I were younger or was doing this trip with a friend, it might seem less daunting. Anyhow, I think I'm pretty much tied to the rental route although I will take my Brooks saddle and my pedals with clips.

I'm going to start another thread to address a new issue. The idea of renting a bicycle has one major problem -- getting the bike back to the starting point. I see two solutions. First, a loop route. Return the bike to the rentor at the same place. Secondly -- as pertains to riding the Rhine River valley -- I've found a shop that will deliver the bike to the southern end and reclaim it at the north end. (There may be others that will do that but I haven't found them yet.) If you have opinions re that, look for a new thread entitled "Europe Loop Route".

Again...thanks to all. John

staehpj1

I have no experience with them for international shipping, but have you looked into possibly using shipbikes.com or bikeflights.com? It is easy to get a online price quote. You could ship to a bike shop or the hotel where you spend the first night there. I think it might be worth it to me to ride my own bike. I'd ask folks who have done this for advice though.

Alternately I'd consider paying someone to assist in getting the bike packed and to the airport at each end. Bike shops can be pretty accomodating to tourists with regard to shipping and logistics in my experience. For the trip home, dropping the bike at a bike shop and letting them pack and ship it is my preferred way to get it home in most cases.

Tourist in MSN

Shipping a bike between USA and Europe raises customs duty issues. For international travel, it is best to have the bike on the plane with you when you clear customs.

And it can be a hassle if you clear customs at a layover airport, where you may have to reclaim your luggage and then re-check your luggage again.

djb

well, this forum can easily have folks bickering over minutia and all that, so it probably isn't all that different than other internet stuff....but I'm glad some of the comments here have been helpful to you.

You rent a bike there, you don't have to deal with a boxed bike, but there are always going to be compromises--fit, quality of bike, gearing, weight of bike or whatever--perhaps you can find of reliable details of the rental bikes, but maybe not (language issues etc) or just plain indifference from rental company.
How much does it cost to rent a bike for X weeks?--- now we come to money--you may find out that getting a bike store here to box your bike, take a van taxi to airport, taxi there, bike store in europe to unbox and assemble your bike etc--could be the same price as a rental of an unknown bike.....

yes, you have to manhandle your bike box at the airport, which could be a real hassle for you if you've never done it. I've done it many times and its ok, but I'm younger than you, so I get it. Same with the hassle of finding a taxi big enough to take a bike box in Europe. I've always used the smallest bike boxes I can fit my medium ish bikes into, I'm 5'10+, and SUV or station wagon types can fit my box---but again, I've done this and it doesnt faze me....BUT the obvious advantage is that you have your own bike, so fit and physical problems and riding enjoyment issues are eliminated .

where are you thinking of riding, where are you flying into?

Just be aware too that you may contact bike rental companies and they could say, "Sure, sure, absolutely we have bikes that are suitable for touring, they are great touring bikes, really, trust me, trust me" (worst case scenario here) and then you get there and the bikes are grandma and grandpa city bikes or something---again, this comes down to your communication skills and hopefully perhaps even talking on the phone with people to be sure of what you are getting. I can speak French so its easy for me with France, but if it were me, I'd want to have good assurance that the rental place isn't a crap company with crap bikes.

How long are planning to ride for--another factor for cost of rental.
re returning the bike, one can fairly easily take a train or trains, but with language issues, this can be tricky, plus you have to lug your bike up into trains in just 30 seconds amongst other people getting on, and making sure you rush and get to the doors of the actual cars with a bike symbol where one is allowed to bring a bike--also, hoping that the spaces are not taken up with other bikes or baby carriages (been there, done that a few times) --- so I get also the attractiveness of a company that allows one way rental.

if you take your own bike, you will have to arrange for perhaps a different bike store in a different city to box your bike. Are you good at communicating with people in another language? Are you good at picking up when someone seems to understand you but they really dont , potentially causing problems down the line?

again, just thoughts here to put out ideas for you to be wary of or to consider.

I assume you'd be bringing your own panniers with your stuff in them? I put my panniers into a small duffle type bag for check in baggage, then have one pannier as carry on along with my handlebar bag, so you'll have to figure this out rental bike or not.
Will your panniers fit easily onto the rack of a rental bike? Sorry to bring this up, but a real issue potentially (should be okay though).

if you are interested, put down here the companies you are looking at, along with your possible travel plans.
I can highly recommend looking at the Eurovelo routes, my wife and I did part of the EV 6, from Nantes across France to Switzerland. They are generally well marked, and kkeep you off busy roads, very pleasant riding overall. Look at the Eurovelo website, very neat.

Oh, and lastly, bringing your own bike touches on the fee for having a bike on a plane--different airlines charge diff prices. If you have a flight with multiple legs or transfers, this can complicate things greatly if there are affiliate airlines involved, as they will charge you again for you bike....it looks like you are flying with X airline, but actually look properly and it may be Airline A from here to there, and then Airline B from there to Europe (or whatever)

good luck planning , get back here if you want.

axolotl

You can also close the loop by train, rather than by cycling. Most regional trains ("ter" trains) in France have places for bikes. These regional trains usually allow you to roll on your bike for free. BTW, the same is NOT true for TGV and some other rail services in France.

The following site allows you to search for trains. A small bicycle pictograph shows whether a specific train accept bikes.
https://www.sncf-connect.com/app/en-en/home/search

A few questions:

How long do you want to go for?
Do you speak French at all?
Are you only interested in the Rhone valley?
When do you want to travel? Please note that the Rhone valley can get quite hot, so for multiple reasons, I would urge you to avoid July & August.

tcs

Okay, really, really out of the box here:

In the UK*, you can get a bike useable for touring (people do it)...out of a (overgrown) vending machine.

No, really.

https://bromptonhire.com/

Ride your route, turn the machine back in at another one of their vending machines.

But not really, right?

Yes, really:
https://www.pannier.cc/journal/bromp...t-ramble-ride/




*The UK has an additional small advantage of the indigenous population speaking an amusing but easily understood dialect of the American language.

Tourist in MSN

DJB mentioned bringing panniers to Europe, I have carried two panniers onto the plane. One front pannier as the "personal item" and a rear pannier as my "carryon" bag. I do not want airline luggage handlers to crack my helmet in a checked bag, so I wear it onto the plane and then put it in the overhead bin above me. But different airlines have different rules for sizes. If my checked bag is approaching the weight limit, I try to carry heavy stuff in my carryon, etc. I always carry a luggage scale to make sure my checked bag is not overweight.

You did not say if you are carrying camping gear. Tent stakes or anything like that which a TSA agent might think is a weapon, that gets checked of course. Camp stove, I only fly with a butane stove now, too much hassle making my liquid fuel stove free of petroleum odor.
https://www.msrgear.com/blog/flying-...camping-stove/

John Martin

Friends...I started another thread (Europe bicycle route) but it had very few hits. This thread, on the other hand, has many -- and (to me) valuable -- comments. Maybe I can respond to some of those comments and give an update to my thinking about a long ride in Europe by an old man.

Most important, you have convinced me to take my own bike ("Mike the Bike", a 2002 Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road). Someone suggested the names of two bike shipping companies. I'll buy what appears to be a well engineered box from one of them and travel with my bike. I'll purposefully limit my flight connections to minimize issues with airlines. I've located a shuttle outfit that will take me all the way to the airport (Atlanta) so that I don't have to deal with the metro system.

You have also made me see the light regarding my intention to limit my route to loops. With careful attention to railroad rules I can easily return to the start (where my bike box will be waiting!!).

Nominally, I'll ride 30 miles per day with a rest day after each 3 days. Some of that will depend on availability of B&B's. I'll be doing no camping. Depending on the route I finally choose, my time away will be 15 days plus or minus 2. This will likely happen starting in late May. I LOVE being retired!!

I don't know what language I'll experience -- route not chosen yet. I speak only English and Southern but language hasn't been a problem to me yet in my travels.

I feel lucky to have landed in a place (on the forums) that is populated by thinking and helpful individuals. Thank you . John Martin

L134 

You might also consider getting your hands on an electric bike box from a shop or a rental bike outfit. I got one free from a rental place that was happy I took it off their hands. I could slip my bike in largely assembled with racks and fenders. Reassembly was easy. Box was heavier duty than the bike box I purchased from one of those vendors. The e-bike box was larger but I checked it successfully on a domestic flight. One would want to check the airline policies.

Tourist in MSN

I have not been in Europe since the start of Covid, so I do not know if HI Hostels are operating the way they used to, but I often preferred hostels when I wanted to sleep indoors. You can be as social as you wish or as anti-social as you wish. And often there are others that you can talk to and perhaps go to the pub together, etc. I find it a much more pleasant way to travel than being a solo traveler alone in a hotel. I usually made reservations a few days in advance if I wanted to stay at hostels that I was concerned might fill up. But my travels have mostly been camping, not sleeping indoors.

Do you anticipate packing the bike in the box yourself or have a local bike shop do it?

There are several youtube videos on that topic, some pack better than others. I bought my road bike new from in the original packaging from the manufacturer, I took some photos of it immediately after I took it out of the box but before I did any more unpacking. Photos below, the third photo is a blow up of the rear derailleur area.



In the photo below, the small box had a lot of the small parts like pedals, skewers, etc.



I usually suggest removal of the rear derailleur and i find it easier to remove the chain too. The manufactuer shipped it with derailleur attached, but note that it had the chain on the largest cog so that the derailleur was inward instead of outward and also note that there was a large plastic spacer on the end of the axle that held the rear derailleur away from the side of the box so that it was less likely that a side impact to the box could put the derailleur out of alignment. That said, if this was my bike, the chain and rear derailleur would have been removed, but the rear derailleur cable would still be attached and in adjustment.



Lots of zip ties were used. If you use zip ties, a good side cutter makes removal very fast, or if you do not have one, a toe nail clipper also works great on zip ties.

Have a great trip.

axolotl

Two regions in France with gentle terrain are the Loire valley and the Rhone valley. Both have good train connections which would allow you to easily do a one-way tour. Both regions also have "Eurovelo" routes. Overall, I think the Loire offers more advantages than the Rhone. There's a great network of minor roads with minimal traffic, and there are many chateaux to visit. Terrain is quite gentle. It's also a short train ride from Paris.

While the Rhone valley itself is flat, there are mountains and serious hills nearby, so you would be somewhat limited in where you could ride if you want to avoid hills. There are some nice towns with Roman ruins in the valley. The Rhone valley is more likely to have dry weather than the Loire valley, as well as warmer temperatures.

Prowler 

On my relatively few tours of Europe I have found it easy and very beneficial to learn just a few things in the local language. Many Europeans speak English but, for me, so many encounters go smoothly if I can start in their language.

Hello. How are you. I’m fine thank you. Do you speak English? Thank you very much. Goodbye. Good night.

French, Italian or Spanish. I seem to have wooden ears so German has been a big challenge but I found Swedish pretty easy. Well worth the time.

I recall when my wife and I visited a small deli on a back street in Milano. I started in Italian but pretty quickly the owner’s son came out and took over in English. He was very happy and helpful as he wanted to practice his English because they saw VERY few Americans there. We left as good friends.

indyfabz

Heh. I have had experiences like that. I was in a small town in southern Spain. A bar tender there had studied English in England and was happy to get to use her second language with me. She told me that when she visited NYC during a school trip, she heard a lot of Spanish. That made me laugh.

Later in the trip I came across a young kid in a town square who was so excited that I was riding a Cannondale like he was. Turned out, his parents owned the hostel and restaurant I was looking for.

djb

Holy geez, a Grummun!!
We may have already had this conversation, but how do I know? -- I have one so recognized the blue bit.
Nice trip boats but heavy sobs (76, 78 lbs, can't recall)

Scotty0424

I'm 73, and have found my riding position trending more upright over the tears. A shorter stem could help.

Tourist in MSN

It is an 18 foot lightweight, I think it is 66 pounds. I do not recall if that weight is with or without the portage yoke. The skin is quite thin, I think it is 32 thousandths of an inch, where the standard (heavier) model was 50 thousandths. Easily flexes, so you do not want to do any white water. Nine ribs in the bottom due to the thin skin. I think it is mid 70s vintage if I recall correctly. I bought it new in early 80s, but this one had sat in the canoe yard for a few years before I bought it.

djb

now I recall, yes you told me it was a lightweight once, I remember you saying about the thinner aluminum.

RohloffRoller

83 years old, good on yer mate as we say Downunda.

Mike, a young 81.

pdlamb

My first exposure to white water was in the 1970s in a Grumman, and it left me not particularly enthusiastic about the experience. 15 years later, same river in some sort of plastic canoe made me realize the aluminum really was great -- at sticking to any rock it brushed against!

Tourist in MSN

I have never had any interest in white water, but have a lot of experience in Boundary Waters in northern Minnesota and in Canada across the border. Before Kevlar canoes were invented, Grumman and Alumacraft canoes were the standard up there, and of those the Grumman was the preferred choice as it had better rivets. The 18 foot is only one foot longer than the 17, but in rough weather with bigger waves that extra foot really helps hold a straighter line. And of course, the lightweight version for portages. But, my Grumman has not been in the water for at least two decades, I bought a Wenona Minnesota II canoe for those trips in the mid 1990s. And six years ago traded that Wenona in on a new Wenona solo canoe, my old canoeing partner decided he was too old for those trips, thus now I need a solo canoe for those trips, I prefer a kayak paddle in a solo.

It is my understanding that a fairly new plastic canoe is best for white water, new enough that the plastic does not crack.

I do not even have a photo of the Grumman in the water, it has not been in the water since I bought my first digital camera. My newer solo canoe, below. It is Kevlar, less than 40 pounds.