‘I’ll probably never buy a carbon bike again’ ...
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Originally Posted by Chloe Hosking
I’ve seen that alloy bikes can be just as competitive in a peloton as carbon ones. The vast majority of people do not need to spend 20 grand on a carbon bike.
To stir the pot.
Of course, it's marketing. It seems the main reason she didn't do carbon was that it was too expensive for a startup.
This is silly. No one is arguing that "marketing doesn't enter the world of CF frames".
Last edited by njkayaker; 03-11-24 at 11:20 AM.
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There is no point where I would ever say your bikes are posted too frequently. I encourage you to post them as frequently as possible so everyone has context when reading your IGH rants.
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...there is, AFAIK, no requirement for anyone to respond to any thread topic on teh Beikforums. The pot here stirs itself. It doesn't need me for that.
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Not one mention regarding repairability. Carbon fiber bikes can actually be repaired, unlike aluminum bikes. In my city, there's a carbon fiber bike builder/repair shop and for the more adventurous, they do sell DIY carbon fiber repair kits.
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Not one mention regarding repairability. Carbon fiber bikes can actually be repaired, unlike aluminum bikes. In my city, there's a carbon fiber bike builder/repair shop and for the more adventurous, they do sell DIY carbon fiber repair kits.
One of the most common reasons carbon bike frames are so expensive is they are almost completely hand-assembled by hand, and almost the same amount of laborious effort has to be poured in during the repair. It is nearly impossible to automate the assembly and repair of the process.
Proper inspection and professional discipline are required to evaluate and repair any bruise on it. If the gouge is gentle and delicate, professionals may carry out an ultrasound inspection before beginning a repair operation. Thus, finding an expert technician for your carbon fiber bike repair is highly important. First, disassemble all your components and take the damaged frame to repair.
Proper inspection and professional discipline are required to evaluate and repair any bruise on it. If the gouge is gentle and delicate, professionals may carry out an ultrasound inspection before beginning a repair operation. Thus, finding an expert technician for your carbon fiber bike repair is highly important. First, disassemble all your components and take the damaged frame to repair.
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In any case, is the $7,000 bike the same as a $20,000 bike? All we have is her say-so. She said it wouldn't be as light as the UCI limit. It's well-known people spend lots for being a little lighter. It's well-known that there are severe diminishing returns.
I'm mot suggesting that good bikes can't be made from aluminum. But there is no indication that that company wouldn't make carbon bikes if it was cheap enough to get into.
This is disingenuous. No one said there was a requirement.
Last edited by njkayaker; 03-11-24 at 11:00 AM.
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...never mind, I found it in your link:
...never mind, I found it in your link:
Carbon fiber bike frame repair costs are high as well. If your carbon road bike meets a horrific accident with serious damage, it might be time to replace it rather than flushing your money down the drain. There is a high chance that broken carbon wheels and rims can't be restored. But with the advanced technology, remodeling experts are successfully repairing many waves of abuse nowadays, although the significant charges may raise your eyebrows.
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Last two world tour bike races I watched - the winners could have been riding 20 year old steel frames, while everyone else was riding the best of the best CF had to offer, and still won with a big margin. Pogs and Vingo would have won Strade and Tirrento on steel framed bikes while everyone else was riding their Dogma's.
The latest tech, marginal gains, gram shavings, aero... if all the riders were riding round tubed steel framed bikes - the results of the races would be the same, the best man or woman would win.
I think that's what gets lost in cycling - it's about the human, not really the machine. TT's and track racing, sure, the equipment makes a difference. Pro tour racing, drafting in a peloton, with everyone on essentially +/- equal bikes, the equipment impact isn't really that important. The strongest rider or team will win.
The first gen CF frames, the first adopters may have had an advantage over teams still riding alloy bikes - but once everyone switched over - it's essentially a non issue.
I'm not anti CF or a luddite. My issue is the cost of getting new people/kids into the sport. My 13 year old son is an avid rider - BMX, MTB, Road - you almost have to take a second mortgage out on the house to keep up with the costs of generic cycling, let alone racing gear.
The latest tech, marginal gains, gram shavings, aero... if all the riders were riding round tubed steel framed bikes - the results of the races would be the same, the best man or woman would win.
I think that's what gets lost in cycling - it's about the human, not really the machine. TT's and track racing, sure, the equipment makes a difference. Pro tour racing, drafting in a peloton, with everyone on essentially +/- equal bikes, the equipment impact isn't really that important. The strongest rider or team will win.
The first gen CF frames, the first adopters may have had an advantage over teams still riding alloy bikes - but once everyone switched over - it's essentially a non issue.
I'm not anti CF or a luddite. My issue is the cost of getting new people/kids into the sport. My 13 year old son is an avid rider - BMX, MTB, Road - you almost have to take a second mortgage out on the house to keep up with the costs of generic cycling, let alone racing gear.
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This demonstrates why you’re not taken seriously.
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...please do not call me a liar. That you did not participate in the exchange does not give you license to do that. Thank you. Whether you take me seriously or not is of no importance to me. That you would choose to make this call on behalf of everyone here ? That's a good example of why it' of no importance to me.
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...sure he did, just not in this thread. I think I made that about as clear as I could. I could go back and find it for you if you want, but it was clearly stated to me by Atlas Shrugged . Calling him a no one will just further inflame his passion.
This bike bears no resemblance to traditional steel bikes of the past. It features disc brakes, tubeless tires, a wide-ratio 2X drivetrain, 42mm tires, tig-welded 953 tubing, and numerous brazons, among other modern components, many of which are carbon. However, this doesn't diminish the value of my carbon bikes and the overall superiority of carbon for the majority of cycling applications.
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You seem to be approaching this with a "hammer looking for a nail" mindset, and you're completely off base. I purchased a steel bike last year because it was the best material for the specific use case I had in mind. I needed a touring/adventure bike as my Diverge wasn't well-suited for that purpose. At least twice a year, I embark on month-long self-supported rides in different locations. Steel emerged as the ideal material due to its ease of customization and durability when fully loaded.
This bike bears no resemblance to traditional steel bikes of the past. It features disc brakes, tubeless tires, a wide-ratio 2X drivetrain, 42mm tires, tig-welded 953 tubing, and numerous brazons, among other modern components. However, this doesn't diminish the value of my carbon bikes and the overall superiority of carbon for the majority of cycling applications.
This bike bears no resemblance to traditional steel bikes of the past. It features disc brakes, tubeless tires, a wide-ratio 2X drivetrain, 42mm tires, tig-welded 953 tubing, and numerous brazons, among other modern components. However, this doesn't diminish the value of my carbon bikes and the overall superiority of carbon for the majority of cycling applications.
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...I confess I know nothing about the costs of diagnosing and repairing a cracked CFRP bicycle. Alloy, as you say, once it breaks it's broken. Do you have any idea about the costs of these services, so I can judge the vialbility of it a a strategy, versus just buying a cheaper bicycle frame in the first place ? I have the impression that a lot of people in the world of higher end CF just buy a new bike, because the associated component technology is changing so rapidly. But I might be completely mistaken in that.
From your link. Sounds a little pricey to me, but what do I know ?
From your link. Sounds a little pricey to me, but what do I know ?
Last edited by jonathanf2; 03-11-24 at 11:08 AM.
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...sure he did, just not in this thread. I think I made that about as clear as I could. I could go back and find it for you if you want, but it was clearly stated to me by Atlas Shrugged . Calling him a no one will just further inflame his passion.
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Originally Posted by Chloe Hosking
I’ve seen that alloy bikes can be just as competitive in a peloton as carbon ones. The vast majority of people do not need to spend 20 grand on a carbon bike.
This makes no sense. Anyway. the "vast majority of people" don't need to spend $7000 either.
Last edited by njkayaker; 03-11-24 at 11:25 AM.
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I didn't spend 20 grand on a CF bike. I didn't even spend a fifth of that. But yet it was made of CF and was new when I purchased it in 2020.
CF bikes can be had for much less today and are becoming available at lower and lower tier levels every year. $2500 can find some decent brand name CF bikes. Maybe even less.
CF bikes can be had for much less today and are becoming available at lower and lower tier levels every year. $2500 can find some decent brand name CF bikes. Maybe even less.
Last edited by Iride01; 03-11-24 at 11:25 AM.
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...I confess I know nothing about the costs of diagnosing and repairing a cracked CFRP bicycle. Alloy, as you say, once it breaks it's broken. Do you have any idea about the costs of these services, so I can judge the vialbility of it a a strategy, versus just buying a cheaper bicycle frame in the first place ? I have the impression that a lot of people in the world of higher end CF just buy a new bike, because the associated component technology is changing so rapidly. But I might be completely mistaken in that.
From your link. Sounds a little pricey to me, but what do I know ?
From your link. Sounds a little pricey to me, but what do I know ?
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[QUOTE=Atlas Shrugged;23153404]I can see why you’re so confused. Instead of riding and opining plastic bicycles and components you should try carbon fiber is absolutely amazing. Incredible strength to weight ratio, infinitely adjustable through layup, and state of the art for current cycling technology who knows where the future will take it. Hopefully this clears up your confusion. It will drastically increase your enjoyment of the sport from a riding perspective.[/QUOTE]
It was in the Weight Weenieism thread, which has been locked, so the reference function might not work.
Not only. Just fully. Stop saying this, because you were not a participant in the original exchange. Thank you
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Utter nonsense.
I've ridden and raced on bikes made of steel, aluminum, titanium, and carbon fiber. I still own bikes made of 3 of those materials. I'm a lot of years removed from my best racing days and peak fitness, but I haven't lost the ability to recognize and appreciate the differences in ride quality and handling characteristics between different bikes. It turns out that the bikes I prefer to ride are all CF. They're also the bikes that excite me most to look at. If a high-end CF bike helps pro racers get the most from their abilities, why can't I also ride a bike that helps me get the most from my abilities? I'm not racing the way I used to, but I still like riding to the limits of what my body is capable of on a regular basis. That's just playing the game of bikes the way I like to play it. For the same reasons, I wear "roadie" clothing when I ride, regardless of whether it's road, gravel, or MTB. It's clothing optimized for cycling, and helps me perform at my best, regardless of how I compare to anyone else. I'm not pretending to be someone. I am a cyclist, and I use the gear that suits the way I like to ride, based on preferences developed over a long time. At this point, I don't ever expect to purchase a non-CF bike.
All that said. These are my preferences. If yours are different, that's fine. I'm not telling anyone else how they should enjoy the sport/activity, and what they should be limited to using.
I've ridden and raced on bikes made of steel, aluminum, titanium, and carbon fiber. I still own bikes made of 3 of those materials. I'm a lot of years removed from my best racing days and peak fitness, but I haven't lost the ability to recognize and appreciate the differences in ride quality and handling characteristics between different bikes. It turns out that the bikes I prefer to ride are all CF. They're also the bikes that excite me most to look at. If a high-end CF bike helps pro racers get the most from their abilities, why can't I also ride a bike that helps me get the most from my abilities? I'm not racing the way I used to, but I still like riding to the limits of what my body is capable of on a regular basis. That's just playing the game of bikes the way I like to play it. For the same reasons, I wear "roadie" clothing when I ride, regardless of whether it's road, gravel, or MTB. It's clothing optimized for cycling, and helps me perform at my best, regardless of how I compare to anyone else. I'm not pretending to be someone. I am a cyclist, and I use the gear that suits the way I like to ride, based on preferences developed over a long time. At this point, I don't ever expect to purchase a non-CF bike.
All that said. These are my preferences. If yours are different, that's fine. I'm not telling anyone else how they should enjoy the sport/activity, and what they should be limited to using.
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...as usual, you are off in the weeds again. Her point was and continues to be, that as a small start-up bicycle firm, her company can prototype and make frames from alloy, and sell them more cheaply. And that for the majority of non professional users, they can be competitive in peloton road racing conditions. No more and no less.
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