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28mm tire question

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28mm tire question

Old 06-17-19, 12:15 PM
  #1  
XTR
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28mm tire question

I've been running 25s on my mt R1850s and it's getting to be time to buy another set of tires. I ride on a lot of chip sealed or just rough tarmac. It is worth the $$ from a comfort standpoint to get a set of wheels built to run 28s? I'm 6'4" and weigh 200+ so I have to keep my tires hard or I pinch flat (or in the case of my tubless MTB bend rims) .

I'm pretty skeptical that they would help much but thought I'd ask for experiences.
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Old 06-17-19, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by XTR View Post
I've been running 25s on my mt R1850s and it's getting to be time to buy another set of tires. I ride on a lot of chip sealed or just rough tarmac. It is worth the $$ from a comfort standpoint to get a set of wheels built to run 28s? I'm 6'4" and weigh 200+ so I have to keep my tires hard or I pinch flat (or in the case of my tubless MTB bend rims) .

I'm pretty skeptical that they would help much but thought I'd ask for experiences.
28mm tires will always be more comfortable than 25s (unless you go from a super-supple race tire to an armored tread tire). You don't have to have new wheelset built to use 28mm tires. The question is whether they will fit your frame and brake calipers.
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Old 06-17-19, 12:27 PM
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I'm running Ultegras. They are tight getting a 25 in and out with the cam open, havne't looked to see just how close the clearance is in the top. I assumed I'd need to rims because I'm pretty sure I could not get an inflated 28 on and off and still have the brakes adjusted.
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Old 06-17-19, 12:37 PM
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I'm 6'2" and 200 lbs and I've put 500 miles around the NYC area on a set of 28mm Mavic Yksion Pro at 75/80 psi without pinch flatting. This is on a new bike so not a huge sample size and I've only really slammed into one pothole since I'm usually aware enough to bunny hop them but I consider chipseal good pavement.
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Old 06-17-19, 12:40 PM
  #5  
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Originally Posted by XTR View Post
I'm running Ultegras. They are tight getting a 25 in and out with the cam open, havne't looked to see just how close the clearance is in the top. I assumed I'd need to rims because I'm pretty sure I could not get an inflated 28 on and off and still have the brakes adjusted.
Yes, unfortunately it wouldn't matter if you got new wheels because they would still need to be 700c (622mm) in order for the rims to reach the brake calipers.
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Old 06-17-19, 01:04 PM
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I run 28 rear and 25 front. The 28 rides nicer than the 25 and the difference in speed is super small. I don't have an issue with flats either but that probably doesn't mean anything...it a nice set up for me for comfort.
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Old 06-17-19, 01:15 PM
  #7  
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Depends on the tire, too. I tried 28 wide Conti 4000's on my bike (BMC says 28 is the widest tire I can fit). I started having clearance issues (on a disc bike, so it was hitting the frame). Checked the tires and they measured 32 on the rim. Had to go back to 25 wide (measured 26 on the rim). I have been told since that these tires seem to run wider than advertised. The new Conti 5000's apparently run closer to what they should.

That said, the bike was MUCH smoother on the 28 (really 32) tires at a lower pressure rather than these 25s.
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Old 06-17-19, 01:45 PM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by XTR View Post
I've been running 25s on my mt R1850s and it's getting to be time to buy another set of tires. I ride on a lot of chip sealed or just rough tarmac. It is worth the $$ from a comfort standpoint to get a set of wheels built to run 28s? I'm 6'4" and weigh 200+ so I have to keep my tires hard or I pinch flat (or in the case of my tubless MTB bend rims) .

I'm pretty skeptical that they would help much but thought I'd ask for experiences.
Originally Posted by XTR View Post
I'm running Ultegras. They are tight getting a 25 in and out with the cam open, havne't looked to see just how close the clearance is in the top. I assumed I'd need to rims because I'm pretty sure I could not get an inflated 28 on and off and still have the brakes adjusted.
Being a bit taller and heavier- I can say that there is no doubt a 28mm tire is more comfortable than a 25mm tire.
A 28mm tire has something like 25% more air volume than a 25mm tire. Pretty significant for only being 3mm wider.

As for the rest of your posts- I dont follow at all. A new wheelset wont allow you to mount 28mm tires onto your frame and easier than your current wheelset. If 28mm tires fit your frame and fork, but you just cant get them thru the brake calipers when inflated, then dont inflate the tires until the wheels are mounted. Pump a few times to seat the tire, install the wheel, then pump up the tires. Pretty simple work-a-round.
You cant get a smaller wheel to offset the size of the larger 28mm tires. <---this looks like what you are wanting to do, i think.
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Old 06-17-19, 03:37 PM
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Clinchers? You poor people. But as you did not say...

I have 28mm tubulars on the tandem and love them. If you are much under 300# 28mm tub is too much tire for paved non pot hole roads.
A true 25mm (as in measures 25mm) tubular is good for most pavement even chip sealed.

I'd go tubular 25-27. I don't get clinchers for anything but convenience and glass and Goat Heads...

Clincher add about 3mm and 50% the mass and you get about the same cush. The feel you don't.
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Old 06-17-19, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
... something like 25% more air volume ...
Again, why not use a tubular. You get a tubular 25mm above the rim air volume about the same as a ~ 28mm clincher above the rim volume at near half the mass.

Last edited by Doge; 06-17-19 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 06-17-19, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by XTR View Post
I'm running Ultegras. They are tight getting a 25 in and out with the cam open, havne't looked to see just how close the clearance is in the top. I assumed I'd need to rims because I'm pretty sure I could not get an inflated 28 on and off and still have the brakes adjusted.
But why do you need to remove an inflated wheel/tyre.
If you puncture it is flat when you take it off and you inflate it when it is on again.
For maintenance it isn't a big deal to let it down a bit and reinflate.
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Old 06-17-19, 04:37 PM
  #12  
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I toss my bike in the back of the Tahoe pretty regularly, it fits much easier with the wheel off.

Todays ride kind of solved this one in the short term. Hit a piece of metal and ripped open the sidewall on the rear. Just ordered a new set of Conti's

Last edited by XTR; 06-17-19 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 06-17-19, 05:27 PM
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You could set it up so you get the extra adjustment with the barrel adjuster on the caliper.
Then try the tyres and if you decide they are worth it get a set of wide rim wheels built (Hed Belgium + or similar).
Also need to make sure you have frame and brake clearance for such a combo. Quite a big step up in size especially if it is a GP4000 which will actually be over 30mm measured.
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Old 06-17-19, 06:44 PM
  #14  
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The bike I'm considering it on is an older Focus Izalco 4 Pro, and I've been looking at the front, but the clearance issue is probably in the rear, and I don't think it's there. There isn't a lot of clearance for a bigger tire behind the seat tube.
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Old 06-19-19, 05:12 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by XTR View Post
I've been running 25s on my mt R1850s and it's getting to be time to buy another set of tires. I ride on a lot of chip sealed or just rough tarmac. It is worth the $$ from a comfort standpoint to get a set of wheels built to run 28s? I'm 6'4" and weigh 200+ so I have to keep my tires hard or I pinch flat (or in the case of my tubless MTB bend rims) .

I'm pretty skeptical that they would help much but thought I'd ask for experiences.
100% yes I updated my tired 28 are super nice made big difference
i say if you can just do it
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Old 06-19-19, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Again, why not use a tubular. You get a tubular 25mm above the rim air volume about the same as a ~ 28mm clincher above the rim volume at near half the mass.
The guy you are quoting has tubeless tires not clinchers. I am running the same, 28mm Yksion Pro UST’s at 206lbs and I will never go back to 25mm.
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Old 06-19-19, 06:32 PM
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I'm unclear on why you think your current wheels would have any problem running 28mm or for that matter 32mm.

For five years I've run 28mm which replaced the 25mm that came with the bike. I'm 6'4" and 230 pounds. The 28mm ride better and faster than the 25mm. Personally, I would like to run 32mm but my bike frame doesn't have the proper clearance for 32mm in the rear. A 32mm fits on my front but the clearance is too minuscule IMO so I run 28mm on the front too.

Good luck on getting the results you seek.
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Old 06-21-19, 08:17 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by BengalCat View Post
I'm unclear on why you think your current wheels would have any problem running 28mm or for that matter 32mm.

For five years I've run 28mm which replaced the 25mm that came with the bike. I'm 6'4" and 230 pounds. The 28mm ride better and faster than the 25mm. Personally, I would like to run 32mm but my bike frame doesn't have the proper clearance for 32mm in the rear. A 32mm fits on my front but the clearance is too minuscule IMO so I run 28mm on the front too.

Good luck on getting the results you seek.
Current clincher rims are made for 25mm tires. Putting 28s on them will result in a wider tire profile. The current setup with Ultegra calipers it is tight getting the tires through the brake calipers with the tires inflated, and apparently unlike a some other riders I do this pretty regularly, some weeks every day. If the tires were mounted on rims designed for 28s the rim would be wider, the caliper setup would start wider and they would probably make it though with the cams open. I'm also not sure my frame has clearance for 28s in the rear. It is pretty tight.

As noted above, I ripped a sidewall on my ride a few days ago, new Conti 25s are on the way so I'll be a couple of thousand miles before I revisit this.

Thanks for the feedback on the ride though.
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Old 06-21-19, 08:52 AM
  #19  
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I ran 25mm tires when I first got my road bike, then went to 23s, because that's what people did in 2008-2009. Later on I returned to 25s, and am currently riding 28s on the road bike and 32 on my hybrid.

I am around 185, but have been as heavy as 212. I never pinch-flatted any tire.

I would like to point out that 28mm tires have greater air volume, and as such do not require as much pressure to avoid pinch flats. If you felt the need, with 25mm tires, to run 100 PSI, you can get away now with 90 PSI in 28mm tires. The ride will feel nicer, as a result. And because you're not as buffeted by road vibrations, you might even discover you ride faster. Rolling resistance may be a wash; a 28mm tire at 100PSI will have lower resistance than a 25mm tire at 100PSI, but we're talking about running the 28 at slightly lower pressure, which will probably return you to approximately the same rolling resistance as the 25mm at 100 PSI.

If your bike can fit the 28s, and if your calipers clear them, and if you don't mind that they are going to weigh slightly more (you shouldn't care that much), and if you are ok with them being ever so slightly less aerodynamic (again, you shouldn't care really at all), then 28s are really a pleasure to ride on when compared to something skinnier.

GP4000sII tires run wide in the 28mm size; mine run 31mm mounted. On the same rims, GP5000 28mm tires run 27.5mm mounted. So not all 28mm tires are created equal. I know the 5000s are pretty expensive, but if frame and caliper clearance is an issue, you'll have better luck with GP 5000 tires than with GP 4000sII. Certainly there are other great 28mm tires out there on the market, but my personal experience is with the Continental line of road tires.

FWIW here are the Conti tires I've tried over the years:
  • Gatorskin: 23mm, 25mm. Ride a little rough, and cornering isn't fantastic. Slightly more durable than GP4000.
  • GP4000/4000sII: 23mm, 25mm, 28mm. Nice ride, good traction, light weight, a little puncture prone where I ride (goathead country).
  • GP5000: 28mm. Great ride, low rolling resistance. Nice handling. Too soon to know about durability.
  • GP 4 Season: 32mm. Heavier than 4000/5000, ride isn't quite as awesome. Rolling resistance is better than Gatorskins, but worse than 4000/5000. Cornering is excellent, wear longevity is less than 4000, puncture resistance seems to me to be as good as Gatorskins, though I'm sure in a lab the Gatorskins win.
My favorites are the GP5000 for my road bike and the GP 4 Season for my hybrid.
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Old 06-21-19, 09:06 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by XTR View Post
Current clincher rims are made for 25mm tires. Putting 28s on them will result in a wider tire profile. The current setup with Ultegra calipers it is tight getting the tires through the brake calipers with the tires inflated, and apparently unlike a some other riders I do this pretty regularly, some weeks every day. If the tires were mounted on rims designed for 28s the rim would be wider, the caliper setup would start wider and they would probably make it though with the cams open. I'm also not sure my frame has clearance for 28s in the rear. It is pretty tight.

As noted above, I ripped a sidewall on my ride a few days ago, new Conti 25s are on the way so I'll be a couple of thousand miles before I revisit this.

Thanks for the feedback on the ride though.
When it comes to 25 vs 28, the rims are (realistically) neither here nor there unless you're looking to wring every fractional gram of drag from your aero profile. Frame and caliper clearance are very real concerns, but running 28mm tires on rims "made for 25mm tires"? Not an issue beyond how much as they'll affect clearances.
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Old 06-21-19, 09:30 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
... running 28mm tires on rims "made for 25mm tires"? Not an issue beyond how much as they'll affect clearances.
I thought I made the point that the clearances were my only real concern. Specifically the clearances with a 28 mounted, and the clearance to get a 28 in and out of the calipers at pressure.
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Old 06-21-19, 09:41 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by XTR View Post
I thought I made the point that the clearances were my only real concern.
Then don't confuse matters by erroneously citing what the rims are "designed for."
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Old 06-21-19, 10:09 AM
  #23  
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I didn't think it was confusing, my apologies.

to make it somewhat clearer, the whole point of my question is/was:

Is the increased comfort increase running 28s significant enough to justify getting a set of wheels build to run them.


To further explain the logic behind asking about a new set of wheels and the reason I think that in my application I would need them...I have not laced on up, nor do I own a set of rims that are designed for 28mm tires, I will assume that a rim designed for a 28 ever so slightly wider than a rim designed for a 25, so when the calipers are adjusted to the rim they will start ever so slightly wider, and this will result in them being opened ever so slightly wider when the cam is released and thus probably clear the inflated 28mm tire when the wheel is removed, as opposed to a caliper adjusted to a wheel designed for a 25 that would start adjusted with a narrower gap for the slightly narrower rim and would have a smaller opening when the cam was released that may not allow a 28mm tire to clear.

As noted elsewhere, my current setup barely clears 25s so I'm confident that I could not get a set of 28s on and off w/o playing with the barrel adjusters, and that's kind of annoying.
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Old 06-21-19, 10:28 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Again, why not use a tubular. You get a tubular 25mm above the rim air volume about the same as a ~ 28mm clincher above the rim volume at near half the mass.
Convenience, time, availability.
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Old 06-21-19, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by XTR View Post
I didn't think it was confusing, my apologies.

to make it somewhat clearer, the whole point of my question is/was:

Is the increased comfort increase running 28s significant enough to justify getting a set of wheels build to run them.


To further explain the logic behind asking about a new set of wheels and the reason I think that in my application I would need them...I have not laced on up, nor do I own a set of rims that are designed for 28mm tires, I will assume that a rim designed for a 28 ever so slightly wider than a rim designed for a 25, so when the calipers are adjusted to the rim they will start ever so slightly wider, and this will result in them being opened ever so slightly wider when the cam is released and thus probably clear the inflated 28mm tire when the wheel is removed, as opposed to a caliper adjusted to a wheel designed for a 25 that would start adjusted with a narrower gap for the slightly narrower rim and would have a smaller opening when the cam was released that may not allow a 28mm tire to clear.

As noted elsewhere, my current setup barely clears 25s so I'm confident that I could not get a set of 28s on and off w/o playing with the barrel adjusters, and that's kind of annoying.
First, yes - the increased comfort is significant, 'specially if you're not a lightweight that can get away with running 25s at ~80psi.

Beyond that, yeah, you're needlessly confusing things - just throw the "designed for" stuff out of the window. What you seem to want is a higher volume in the tires and a mounted width that more closely matches the brake track width so as to make wheel install/removal easy - is that correct?

The first thing that you have to check is frame and caliper clearance (I'm not talking about the pad width opening at this point) - if 28s mounted on your current wheels are going to rub your frame/calipers, 28s mounted on even wider rims is a non-starter. In this case, 25s on wider rims might give you the volume/lower pressure that you're after while still fitting within the confines of your frame/calipers.

If, other than your how much your pads open when operating the cam, you have have room to accommodate 28s on your current wheels, then you'd have to consider how wide the 28s would be if mounted to even wider rims - they might be more like a 32 and that type of clearance isn't very common with rim brake frames (other than some vintage stuff or some of the very latest frames). If you do have the room to clear that ~32mm, then yeah, wider rims with 28s would probably do everything that you want - they'd give you the volume to run at lower, more comfortable pressure and be easy peasy to put the wheels on and to take them off.... but it's unlikely that you can accommodate that - it's one of the reasons that some people, myself included, decided to move to disc brakes.
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