Ask your small, random, track-related questions here
#5301
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,569
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 678 Times
in
429 Posts
Olympus Speed Works also offers a strap now: https://olympusspeed.com/collections...us-pedal-strap.
Yeah, I think I used them twice and then decided it wasn't worth it. The pics online make them look great. They are not.
Yeah, I think I used them twice and then decided it wasn't worth it. The pics online make them look great. They are not.
Last edited by topflightpro; 11-07-18 at 09:18 AM.
#5302
Senior Member
Olympus Speed Works also offers a strap now: https://olympusspeed.com/collections...us-pedal-strap.
That's a bold promise with the abuse they take...
#5303
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Im assuming that if you use straps on pedals, pedal float doesnt matter anymore? The straps must eliminate float? Am i right in that assumption?
You can find lots of different colours and the models are mostly the same apart from colour across the past few model years. i picked up some red 2016 ones at a big discount and they are identical to my mates 2018 ones in everything except colour.
#5304
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Regarding gloves:
Baseball batting gloves. In the USA there are huge selections at any big sporting goods store and are inexpensive. Golf gloves are just as good and priced similarly, but not as durable and difficult to find in L/R pairs. They are sooooo soft and the right amount of grip. I used golf gloves as my "special occasion" gloves for big events. Baseball gloves for training and weekly racing.
All of the above are better than 5Bling in terms of options, quality of leather, and availability. Plus you get to try before you buy. I do like the idea of supporting a small businessman in the cycling world, though.
I've owned 2 sets of 5Bling gloves. I've never used or handled BLS gloves.
Regarding attaching NJS straps to current generation pedals:
I've done it using small/narrow zip ties with Ultegra carbon pedals. No drilling/shaving required. I'm sure people have pics out there from others. I now have them on my road bike.
I hunted for some alloy Dura Ace PD-7810 and Ultegra (forget the model) which are PERFECT for attaching pedals. Note the metal tab in the center.
Baseball batting gloves. In the USA there are huge selections at any big sporting goods store and are inexpensive. Golf gloves are just as good and priced similarly, but not as durable and difficult to find in L/R pairs. They are sooooo soft and the right amount of grip. I used golf gloves as my "special occasion" gloves for big events. Baseball gloves for training and weekly racing.
All of the above are better than 5Bling in terms of options, quality of leather, and availability. Plus you get to try before you buy. I do like the idea of supporting a small businessman in the cycling world, though.
I've owned 2 sets of 5Bling gloves. I've never used or handled BLS gloves.
Regarding attaching NJS straps to current generation pedals:
I've done it using small/narrow zip ties with Ultegra carbon pedals. No drilling/shaving required. I'm sure people have pics out there from others. I now have them on my road bike.
I hunted for some alloy Dura Ace PD-7810 and Ultegra (forget the model) which are PERFECT for attaching pedals. Note the metal tab in the center.
Last edited by carleton; 11-07-18 at 12:45 PM.
#5305
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Put another way:
If BLS or 5Bling took some mid-tier off-the-rack baseball gloves and called them "sprinter gloves" and took some mid-tier off-the-rack golf gloves and called them "TT gloves", they could sell them for over $100/pair.
You can get those same gloves without the BLS or 5Bling logo (just a measly Nike logo) for $20-45/pair on your way home from work...AND you can try before you buy AND return them if you don't like them within 30 days
If BLS or 5Bling took some mid-tier off-the-rack baseball gloves and called them "sprinter gloves" and took some mid-tier off-the-rack golf gloves and called them "TT gloves", they could sell them for over $100/pair.
You can get those same gloves without the BLS or 5Bling logo (just a measly Nike logo) for $20-45/pair on your way home from work...AND you can try before you buy AND return them if you don't like them within 30 days
#5306
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Last ramble...
Running socks have the same, if not more advanced, technology as cycling socks, with a lot more options. Also available locally for half the price.
Want some knee-high cycling socks for those brisk Saturday morning rides? Use soccer socks. $10.
Running socks have the same, if not more advanced, technology as cycling socks, with a lot more options. Also available locally for half the price.
Want some knee-high cycling socks for those brisk Saturday morning rides? Use soccer socks. $10.
Last edited by carleton; 11-07-18 at 12:54 PM.
#5307
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Houston
Posts: 13
Bikes: Sworks 2012, Sworks 2016 2000 Corima Cougar
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Put another way:
If BLS or 5Bling took some mid-tier off-the-rack baseball gloves and called them "sprinter gloves" and took some mid-tier off-the-rack golf gloves and called them "TT gloves", they could sell them for over $100/pair.
You can get those same gloves without the BLS or 5Bling logo (just a measly Nike logo) for $20-45/pair on your way home from work...AND you can try before you buy AND return them if you don't like them within 30 days
If BLS or 5Bling took some mid-tier off-the-rack baseball gloves and called them "sprinter gloves" and took some mid-tier off-the-rack golf gloves and called them "TT gloves", they could sell them for over $100/pair.
You can get those same gloves without the BLS or 5Bling logo (just a measly Nike logo) for $20-45/pair on your way home from work...AND you can try before you buy AND return them if you don't like them within 30 days
#5308
Senior Member
Seconded on the baseball batting gloves. Most of the keirin pros over here use them.
#5309
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: PHL
Posts: 9,948
Bikes: Litespeed Catalyst, IRO Rob Roy, All City Big Block
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1332 Post(s)
Liked 398 Times
in
194 Posts
For real. I've only ever paid for cycling socks once (and it was only because they say "**** YEAH" on them in really big letters). Most of the socks I ride in I bought at Ross or Target for around $2-$6 a pair.
#5310
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Sorry, just posting this again as may have gotten lost in my last multi quote post.
"Im assuming that if you use straps on pedals, pedal float doesnt matter anymore? The straps must eliminate float? Am i right in that assumption?"
Im asking because the VP pedals arrived today with decent double straps but a 9 degree float red Look cleat. Thats Way more than i usually use ( Shimano SPD-SL blue with 2 degrees float.).
Worried about putting these on for my race tonight and my pedals feeling all loose / sloppy compared to what im used to.
"Im assuming that if you use straps on pedals, pedal float doesnt matter anymore? The straps must eliminate float? Am i right in that assumption?"
Im asking because the VP pedals arrived today with decent double straps but a 9 degree float red Look cleat. Thats Way more than i usually use ( Shimano SPD-SL blue with 2 degrees float.).
Worried about putting these on for my race tonight and my pedals feeling all loose / sloppy compared to what im used to.
#5311
Senior Member
You'll still feel the float. If you want to eliminate it use the fixed cleats. That's pretty weird as I've ordered two pair of the VP pedals and they both came with fixed cleats.
#5312
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Also, maybe consider going to zero-float cleats. They are awesome and add to the direct feel. There are no downsides to doing so. This isn't a sprinter thing. Even pro roadies use them.
I think that float was introduced to cleats when users migrated from fixed slotted cleats (clip and strap style) which were difficult to adjust (some cleats were nailed in). The key is to dial in the position.
I've done this for years with no issues.
Last edited by carleton; 11-08-18 at 10:27 AM.
#5313
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I could only get hold of grey cleats in my local store In time for my race, which are 4 degree float. These weren’t too bad but I will try zero float next when I have track time to practice.
I had a good time at last nights sprint league in London but I feel my position may still be too short even with my 120 stem.
Roughly how far can you put your hands in front of the front axel before it becomes a problem? Is there an agreed wisdom on this kind of thing?
The bike is primarily used for sprinting but our league puts runners up from the sprint heats into a 5 lap dash at the end of the evening for final placing, so the bike needs to still handle well enough in a group scenario. ( usually about 9-11 riders).
I had a good time at last nights sprint league in London but I feel my position may still be too short even with my 120 stem.
Roughly how far can you put your hands in front of the front axel before it becomes a problem? Is there an agreed wisdom on this kind of thing?
The bike is primarily used for sprinting but our league puts runners up from the sprint heats into a 5 lap dash at the end of the evening for final placing, so the bike needs to still handle well enough in a group scenario. ( usually about 9-11 riders).
#5314
Lapped 3x
I could only get hold of grey cleats in my local store In time for my race, which are 4 degree float. These weren’t too bad but I will try zero float next when I have track time to practice.
I had a good time at last nights sprint league in London but I feel my position may still be too short even with my 120 stem.
Roughly how far can you put your hands in front of the front axel before it becomes a problem? Is there an agreed wisdom on this kind of thing?
The bike is primarily used for sprinting but our league puts runners up from the sprint heats into a 5 lap dash at the end of the evening for final placing, so the bike needs to still handle well enough in a group scenario. ( usually about 9-11 riders).
I had a good time at last nights sprint league in London but I feel my position may still be too short even with my 120 stem.
Roughly how far can you put your hands in front of the front axel before it becomes a problem? Is there an agreed wisdom on this kind of thing?
The bike is primarily used for sprinting but our league puts runners up from the sprint heats into a 5 lap dash at the end of the evening for final placing, so the bike needs to still handle well enough in a group scenario. ( usually about 9-11 riders).
There's no hard and fast rule on this. The front and rear axles serves as fulcrums for your weight. Your seat and bars can serve as leverage points around these fulcrums. Go too far back over the rear wheel, and you will wheelie whenever you power out on the seat. Going further forward over the front axle will add more wight here, which unweights the rear wheel (which causes skipping when out of the saddle), and makes the steering heavier. The heavier steering may not be a bad thing, as the way it works is by mitigating your steering input into the fork. You end up increasing bearing friction, which is one way it gets heavier. You also end up lengthening your input lever (stem), which requires more movement for the same rotational input at the bars. This can make a bike more stable, going back the the weight transfer, leaves you with a rear end that is more susceptible to skipping when you get out of the saddle.
Bonus info that's not required reading:
This is why sizing a bike by it's reach (new way) is more important than sizing it by it's seat tube (old way). It almost automatically takes into account a person's torso length, and bakes in the proper weight distribution by also assigning an appropriate wheelbase. You can try and fudge the wheelbase on a bike by swapping forks, but a track fork typically has 35mm offset, and most road forks are 45-50mm offset. You might get the idea that you can use a road fork to buy an extra 1-1.5cm of wheelbase, but this is not as good as it sounds. Putting a road fork on a steep headtube will decrease the trail, and this make your bike twitchier. It also introduces more steering flop into the equation. Road bikes that have slacker heat tube angles can use a fork with more offset because it negates the loss in trail. Most road and track bikes have similar trail figures, It's the head angle that makes the difference,and track bikes NEED a steeper head angle WITH a low offset fork because it minimizes steering flop (how far the contact patch moves when you turn the wheel). Road bikes can use more flop because you're turning on a flat surface, and this actually helps to lead you into a turn. The flop is also somewhat toned down by the slacker had angle. Flop isn't so great on a track where your surface is banked, and will have the effect of magnifying steering inputs, especially at slow speed (think of riding slowly on a steep track and having your front wheel move 1.5cm more than your intended bar input). Here flop will lead to a super twitchy bike
#5315
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Thanks that’s an awesome outline for sizing and very helpful!
When I bought the Planet X I thought it’s reach was long at 427mm for the size large (especially when compared to an xl 60cm Dolan tc1 frame has a reach of 410mm) but I guess I need to do some research on other frames to see what a standard reach is for a frame if this size. Unless of course they aren’t measuring them the same way?
Regardless when I bought the bike I was unaware of what my reach needed to be - I went more by rough estimates based on my overall height rather than specif length of my torso etc.
Hopefully I can get a longer stem on the Planet X without too much negative impact. I already get a little bit of skipping when I’m really pushing on, so I dont want the skipping to get a lot worse as when it happens it can really ruin your flow.
I guess testing is the best way forward.
When I bought the Planet X I thought it’s reach was long at 427mm for the size large (especially when compared to an xl 60cm Dolan tc1 frame has a reach of 410mm) but I guess I need to do some research on other frames to see what a standard reach is for a frame if this size. Unless of course they aren’t measuring them the same way?
Regardless when I bought the bike I was unaware of what my reach needed to be - I went more by rough estimates based on my overall height rather than specif length of my torso etc.
Hopefully I can get a longer stem on the Planet X without too much negative impact. I already get a little bit of skipping when I’m really pushing on, so I dont want the skipping to get a lot worse as when it happens it can really ruin your flow.
I guess testing is the best way forward.
Last edited by Kaben; 11-09-18 at 05:15 PM. Reason: correcting mobile phone spelling
#5316
Lapped 3x
For anyone wondering how Head Tube angle and fork offset effect trail.
Wheel flop describes how the contact patch moves forward/sideways as the bars are turned. When you lean a bike, and the fork points straight ahead, the contact patch remains in the same spot. As you turn the bars, the contact patch moves up the wheel radius, extending the wheelbase, and moving the contact patch in the direction of the lean. Because the contact patch moves up the wheel, it also causes the front end to drop. More flop has the effect of leaning a rider into a turn, and directing the contact patch that way. It acts sort of like power steering for bicycles. Because we have the banking do that for us, we want less flop, and because we want stability while riding upright on the banking, we also want less flop. "Real" track geometry has about 14-17 mm of flop in the front end. Road geo's tend to average around 20-22mm.
You can play with HTA, Fork Offset, trail and flop here:
Bicycle Trail Calculator | yojimg.net
Wheel flop describes how the contact patch moves forward/sideways as the bars are turned. When you lean a bike, and the fork points straight ahead, the contact patch remains in the same spot. As you turn the bars, the contact patch moves up the wheel radius, extending the wheelbase, and moving the contact patch in the direction of the lean. Because the contact patch moves up the wheel, it also causes the front end to drop. More flop has the effect of leaning a rider into a turn, and directing the contact patch that way. It acts sort of like power steering for bicycles. Because we have the banking do that for us, we want less flop, and because we want stability while riding upright on the banking, we also want less flop. "Real" track geometry has about 14-17 mm of flop in the front end. Road geo's tend to average around 20-22mm.
You can play with HTA, Fork Offset, trail and flop here:
Bicycle Trail Calculator | yojimg.net
#5317
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Next question ( sorry for asking so many recently!)
I want to get a more aero helmet for use in my flying 200’s but also something that can also be used for use in the match sprints.
Lots of people reccomended that Casco Warp but it doesn’t seem to be available from many places in the UK and where it is available, it’s incredibly expensive.
I see a lot of Kask Bambino’s in use but I’m not a massive fan of the fit.
Have any of you used (or seen used) the giro aerohead helmet?
My thoughts are that the wide visor would give really good peripheral vision for use during match sprints etc but I am not sure if it’s a bit too long? It’s slightly bigger than the Kask’s stubby profile.
Can you see any drawbacks to using a helmet like this?
I want to get a more aero helmet for use in my flying 200’s but also something that can also be used for use in the match sprints.
Lots of people reccomended that Casco Warp but it doesn’t seem to be available from many places in the UK and where it is available, it’s incredibly expensive.
I see a lot of Kask Bambino’s in use but I’m not a massive fan of the fit.
Have any of you used (or seen used) the giro aerohead helmet?
My thoughts are that the wide visor would give really good peripheral vision for use during match sprints etc but I am not sure if it’s a bit too long? It’s slightly bigger than the Kask’s stubby profile.
Can you see any drawbacks to using a helmet like this?
#5318
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I found footage of the team French sprinters using the Giro aerohead at the 2018 uci world champs so I have answered my own question. Should have checked YouTube before I posted here, sorry.
#5320
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Qc,Canada
Posts: 159
Bikes: Felt TK FRD
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Trail, top tube length, stem length and chainstays length are what make the handling of any bike. My dolan DF3 was still twitchy because i had a top tube 2cm shorter than what I should ride normally like my Felt TK FRD 55cm.
For short tail helmets suitable for match sprinting, you have the choice of:
Lazer wasp air or the newer(and shorter tail) Victor
Giro Aerohead
Poc Cerebel
Oakley Aro7
Last edited by Godsight; 11-10-18 at 09:44 PM.
#5321
Senior Member
Stiff stem recommendations? Realised during a standing start yesterday that I really need to replace the cheap one I was using to dial in my position...
#5322
Senior Member
There was a stiffness test done a while back, someone moight be able to find the results. The problem is it's dated now and a few of the stems have changed design or been discontinued. From memory, the PRO Vibe track stem was top dog and the 3T alloy stems with the wider front plate bolt spacing (can still be found as a MTB stem) rolled in after.
NOTE: do not discount the part your steerer, fork and bars have to play in how flexy your front end feels. Decent quality stems would show negligible flex compared to those other parts in the chain
NOTE: do not discount the part your steerer, fork and bars have to play in how flexy your front end feels. Decent quality stems would show negligible flex compared to those other parts in the chain
#5323
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
There was a stiffness test done a while back, someone moight be able to find the results. The problem is it's dated now and a few of the stems have changed design or been discontinued. From memory, the PRO Vibe track stem was top dog and the 3T alloy stems with the wider front plate bolt spacing (can still be found as a MTB stem) rolled in after.
NOTE: do not discount the part your steerer, fork and bars have to play in how flexy your front end feels. Decent quality stems would show negligible flex compared to those other parts in the chain
NOTE: do not discount the part your steerer, fork and bars have to play in how flexy your front end feels. Decent quality stems would show negligible flex compared to those other parts in the chain
The 3T Arx stems are really good, fairly priced, easy to find, with LOTS of size options. I've owned a few when experimenting with fit. Avoid the titanium bolts, though. You'll need a star wrench to adjust them as the metal is soft. If you do happen to get a stem with ti bolts, go to a hardware or hobby store and replace the bolts with steel that use allen wrenches. The ti bolts aren't bad. They are just a PITA when you have to carry a special tool to adjust them.
Thomson X4 MTB stems have been a go-to stem for sprinters in the US. However, the sizes are somewhat limited to the most popular options. I've owned several over the years and have one now on my steel bike.
The AUS men and women are known for using both. I was looking for photos and guess what I found in the same photo!
Also...
Jimmy Watkins (USA) using a 3T Arx stem on a Felt TK1 (using a standard fork) vs Shane Perkins (AUS) riding a Thomson X4 stem on a BT in the London Olympics:
Last edited by carleton; 11-12-18 at 02:02 AM.
#5324
Senior Member
A fair point, unfortunately there is a picture evidence and you can genuinely see it contorting. It's not that surprising, it was like a £15 own brand stem genuinely just bought for fit testing.
#5325
Senior Member