Gary3

Sheldon Brown states that uncaged bearings work better, I'm cleaning up a set, should I leave the cages out on reassembly?

hueyhoolihan

if you leave the cages out, you'll probably have to add a bearing or two, but for the BB i'd use them. there's nothing worse than losing one down the chainstay or up the downtube and then having to open 'er up again and get it out when it starts rattling. not to mention how awkward it can be just getting them in there in the first place.

i've found cartridge bearing BB's to be a godsend, on the whole.

Gary3

same number of bearings for sure, the bearings nearly touch each other in the cage. the drive side was easy, ill try the adjustable side, the grease should be tacky enough to get the bearings to stay in place while I turn the cup. thanks for the quick reply.

AnkleWork

It seems you missed the words "usually" and "if" in Sheldon's article. It also seems you seek permission more than advice.
In point of fact, full compliment caged bearings tend to have lower friction and longer life versus loose balls, ceteris paribus.

Sixty Fiver

When I service bottom brackets I always replace the caged bearings with loose bearings... this adds a bearing and removes the cage which is more often a cause of problems than losing a bearing in the frame. I have seen many broken cages that have scored the races and seen many bikes where the cage was installed backwards and caused an improper fit.

If you keep your bearing grease in a cool place it will hold the bearings in place during assembly and when it gets hotter here I keep bearing grease in my shop fridge for this purpose.

You can clean and grease the drive side cup without removing it and unless you are all thumbs getting the bearings placed should not be that difficult.

The bearing support is better with eleven 1/4 inch bearings than it is with cartridge bearings, and a good quality loose ball bottom bracket will last tens of thousands of km with regular service and run smoother.

Duane Behrens

to "Sixty-Fiver:" I was reading the posts previous to yours, scratching my head and thinking, "What? You CAN'T add a bearing? What? Cartridge bearings run smoother than loose bearings? What? Loose bearings come loose and lodge in the FRAME? " WHAT?!

Then you came along to confirm what I already knew from my own experience. Whew. Thank you.

To the rest of you, this thread - up until the one from "Sixty-Fiver" - is to me mere confirmation that much of what you read on these boards is often not only wrong but, if followed to the letter, potentially dangerous.

Yikes.

Gary3

Well that clears it all up! The cages held eleven bearings, there is no way twelve will fit, if I should put the cages back in, I will take the time to do it.

rydabent

I think bike mfg actually use cages because it makes assembly faster. And yes without the
cage there is usually room for an extra bearing. More balls to share the load, the stronger the bearing.

BTW if you leave out the cage, use all new bearings of the same size.

AnkleWork

Using caged bearings is potentially dangerous? How?

Gary3

sixty fiver, eleven in the cages, and twelve if loose?

Sixty Fiver

Eleven loose bearings (1/4 inch).

It will look like you need one more but you won't be able to fit 12.

Sixty Fiver

It makes assembly faster and cartridge bearings are relatively inexpensive to produce, there is no fine adjustment required either which is something that requires a human being at the production end or at the bike shop.

Using new bearings from the same lot ensures that they will be consistent in their grading... the numbers you see on bearings like grade 100 mean that the maximum variance is 0.0001 inches and these are considered semi precision while lower grade numbers indicates higher precision and less variance.

For cycling purposes a grade 100 ball bearing is fine although higher grade bearings tend to be better made with higher tolerances, proprietary finishing (often to reduce corrosion), and better materials which last longer. When I worked in the oilfield (manufacturing) we commonly used grade 40 bearings in custom assemblies and on some occasions we also used ceramic bearings where high temperatures and corrosion were an issue.

Ceramic bearings are pretty much useless on a bicycle when you factor in their cost... at about .75 each for grade 5 bearings doing up a bottom bracket would cost $16.50 and the races have to be as precise as the bearings to really make things work their best.

Grade 25 steel bearings cost about a nickel each.

cny-bikeman

To clarify further -

Most all loose ball BB's take 11 1/4 inch ball bearings. Some cages are full complement (11) some are fewer. Full complement cages prevent balls from interfering with each other but still have a full count to bear the load, besides easing assembly. So in my view that would be the best option. But lessened friction is silly to ponder over, main advantage to 11 balls is a bit smoother wear and longer life. Don't reuse balls, whether in a cage or not, and it's not possible to loose a ball bearing down a frame tube if they are all pointed upward from the shell when inserting the balls. Also, most mechanics insert the fixed cup balls into the grease from the right side while guiding it into place with the finger of the other hand.

viperocco

Fascinating, I am glad I read all the way till the end.

fietsbob

Caged bearings typically are an assembly efficiency , but in some cases, like one piece cranks, the assembly requires them..

sweeks

I did this when I rebuilt my old Motobecane. I fitted 11 balls nicely... a big improvement over the original caged bearings which had *7* per side.

ClydeClydeson

My first job was in a bike shop in the early '90s. Sometimes I still wake up in a cold sweat thinking about the box of BB spindles of all different combinations of dimensions. The world became a brighter place when cartridge BBs became standard. Unless your crankset is some weird older asymmetrical thing, the best solution is to find a cartridge BB to replace the cup-and-cone assembly.

Unca_Sam

I'm glad I noticed the date on this thread.
Watch out for the Zombie.

rydabent

Some indicate that if you use loose balls you may drop one or some how get them in the frame. I use very heavy grease in the BB and headset. The heavy grease keeps them in place, and can with stand the extreme loads both of those bearing are exposed to. The "extra drag" some worry about is not a factor.

Moe Zhoost

I never respond to zombie threads.