Odd headset removal advice?
#1
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Odd headset removal advice?
I am trying to rebuild an early 70's Bottecchia for a neighbour.
It not only has cottered cranks (one day I'll find a reasonably priced tool), it has a Regina GS Corse freewheel which required sourcing an obsolete removal tool.
My newest issue is the headset. The bars still turn but I want to strip the headset and rebuild it as I'm sure the grease hasn't been changed since it left the factory.
The adjustable race is smooth and only has two very small pin holes to fit a removal tool. I don't want to clamp on an adjustable wrench and trash the finish as finding a replacement might be hard.
juvela thought the headset might be an Agrati or OMG but was unsure based on photos I offered.
Q: Does any one know what tool would work for this type headset? I tried a Park SPA-1 bottom bracket tool but the pins don't ace inwards so only a single pin engages. I have the frame upside down on the stand now with penetrating oil soaking into the cup and hopefully the threads. If I have to I can try a punch but suspect that will damage the pin holes.
It not only has cottered cranks (one day I'll find a reasonably priced tool), it has a Regina GS Corse freewheel which required sourcing an obsolete removal tool.
My newest issue is the headset. The bars still turn but I want to strip the headset and rebuild it as I'm sure the grease hasn't been changed since it left the factory.
The adjustable race is smooth and only has two very small pin holes to fit a removal tool. I don't want to clamp on an adjustable wrench and trash the finish as finding a replacement might be hard.
juvela thought the headset might be an Agrati or OMG but was unsure based on photos I offered.
Q: Does any one know what tool would work for this type headset? I tried a Park SPA-1 bottom bracket tool but the pins don't ace inwards so only a single pin engages. I have the frame upside down on the stand now with penetrating oil soaking into the cup and hopefully the threads. If I have to I can try a punch but suspect that will damage the pin holes.
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As you probably know, this should not require a tool for removal, only one to hold it in place when tightening the jam nut.
Any way, I would try a rubber belt of some kind to wrap around the cup and some handle, even a socket extension, and try removing it like a oil filter on a car. Could use leather too, but something with a high level friction surface. Like a tie down strap mechanism where the belt wraps around the handle and wraps on itself to keep from slipping.
Any way, I would try a rubber belt of some kind to wrap around the cup and some handle, even a socket extension, and try removing it like a oil filter on a car. Could use leather too, but something with a high level friction surface. Like a tie down strap mechanism where the belt wraps around the handle and wraps on itself to keep from slipping.
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Ps I even tried eBay Italy but didn't find a similar headset, let alone a tool to remove one
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I have found you can also sometimes get these loose by putting a small hole punch or screw driver in the hole and tapping it at a angle with mallet.
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I took a Park "SPA-3" (the one with the blue handle) and filed down the rectangular pins
until they were round, and just small enough to fit the holes in the headset.
I used a smallish (~6") 2nd-cut or smooth file, and took my time.
Didn't take long, and I've used it lots over the years, so I'd say it was worth it.
I think the SPA-3 model may not be made anymore; look for old-stock where you can find it.
I also made another one from an adjustable pin wrench for BB adj. cups, I think it was a Park SPA-6, but I can't find it right now to take a picture. Start with this:
Clamp one arm in the vise and twist the arm with an adjustable wrench (crescent wrench) 90°, until the pin is facing towards the other arm. Then repeat on the other side. It was fairly easy to do the bending, less than a 5 minute job. Definitely less work than filing the pins on an SPA-3. Possibly could be done with two crescent wrenches or vise-grip pliers if you didn't have a vise.
And if you have access to a VAR #13 adjustable pin wrench, those can have the pins facing either way — like the SPA-6 above before bending, or after bending it. Just remove the pins and thread them into the other holes.
Mark B in Seattle
until they were round, and just small enough to fit the holes in the headset.
I used a smallish (~6") 2nd-cut or smooth file, and took my time.
Didn't take long, and I've used it lots over the years, so I'd say it was worth it.
I think the SPA-3 model may not be made anymore; look for old-stock where you can find it.
I also made another one from an adjustable pin wrench for BB adj. cups, I think it was a Park SPA-6, but I can't find it right now to take a picture. Start with this:
Clamp one arm in the vise and twist the arm with an adjustable wrench (crescent wrench) 90°, until the pin is facing towards the other arm. Then repeat on the other side. It was fairly easy to do the bending, less than a 5 minute job. Definitely less work than filing the pins on an SPA-3. Possibly could be done with two crescent wrenches or vise-grip pliers if you didn't have a vise.
And if you have access to a VAR #13 adjustable pin wrench, those can have the pins facing either way — like the SPA-6 above before bending, or after bending it. Just remove the pins and thread them into the other holes.
Mark B in Seattle
Last edited by bulgie; 09-12-20 at 10:38 AM.
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It should not be that tight(note should!). Maybe wrap a piece of old tube around the jaws of channel locks and allow only the rubber to grab the headset adjuster. I have done this on chrome plated plumbing fixtures and not marked up the piece.
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WGB
These may work, they have a right angle pin set that may be able to be put in opposing each other. It says they open 2 inches so.....
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000TG80SY...0Ring%20Pliers
These may work, they have a right angle pin set that may be able to be put in opposing each other. It says they open 2 inches so.....
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000TG80SY...0Ring%20Pliers
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you need a strap wrench
https://www.rona.ca/en/fuller-innova...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
https://www.rona.ca/en/fuller-innova...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
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I'd try the Hozan headset pliers with a rag underneath so you don't mar the cup:
https://www.amazon.com/HOZAN-C-203-H...a-441435708121
https://www.amazon.com/HOZAN-C-203-H...a-441435708121
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I suspect the right tool might look like a adjustable channel lock pliers with replaceable hardened steel pins at its jaws, instead of teeth/serrations
I'm a bit puzzled though, why you might need a tool to remove that top race cap, as it shouldn't be screwed on that tight and should not have that much preload pressure on the bearings.......unless maybe your steerer tube threads are messed up?
I suspect those pin holes are used more to hold the threaded top cup when you tighten the top nut against it to lock the race in place.
I'm a bit puzzled though, why you might need a tool to remove that top race cap, as it shouldn't be screwed on that tight and should not have that much preload pressure on the bearings.......unless maybe your steerer tube threads are messed up?
I suspect those pin holes are used more to hold the threaded top cup when you tighten the top nut against it to lock the race in place.
Last edited by Chombi1; 09-12-20 at 06:42 PM.
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Paging cb400bill
Can we get these 2 identical threads merged plz?
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...al-advice.html
Can we get these 2 identical threads merged plz?
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...al-advice.html
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Thanks all.
I soaked penetrating oil into the cup for two days. Wrapped in strap then used locking pliers. Came off a charm. Stupid design to have a smooth surface.
I'll probably reuse as only spare headset I have is an NOS 600 Ultegra and this frame doesn't get that!
Onto that $&:#?ing cottered crank set which has a bent pin......
I soaked penetrating oil into the cup for two days. Wrapped in strap then used locking pliers. Came off a charm. Stupid design to have a smooth surface.
I'll probably reuse as only spare headset I have is an NOS 600 Ultegra and this frame doesn't get that!
Onto that $&:#?ing cottered crank set which has a bent pin......
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Thanks all.
I soaked penetrating oil into the cup for two days. Wrapped in strap then used locking pliers. Came off a charm. Stupid design to have a smooth surface.
I'll probably reuse as only spare headset I have is an NOS 600 Ultegra and this frame doesn't get that!
Onto that $&:#?ing cottered crank set which has a bent pin......
I soaked penetrating oil into the cup for two days. Wrapped in strap then used locking pliers. Came off a charm. Stupid design to have a smooth surface.
I'll probably reuse as only spare headset I have is an NOS 600 Ultegra and this frame doesn't get that!
Onto that $&:#?ing cottered crank set which has a bent pin......
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If you keep it as a spare, grind 2 flats so you can grip with "Channel lock" pliers next time.
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Here's The Correct Campy Tool - Historical Perspective
That type of headset was quite common BITD, especially on Italian bikes.
Bianchi with integral cups built into the head tube.
Here's the very rare Campy headset tool with the sliding jaws open and closed.
Expensive overkill tool for a stupid design part....
verktyg
Bianchi with integral cups built into the head tube.
Here's the very rare Campy headset tool with the sliding jaws open and closed.
Expensive overkill tool for a stupid design part....
verktyg
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#19
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I remember the VAR tool well. That's what I would have grabbed. Seems like there was a Park pin spanner that worked for this too, but I can't recall the color.
At any rate, I'm sure it would come off with enough hand pressure. A tool is only useful for tightening it back against the locknut when readjusting after it's put back together. Some music wire, a torch, vise, and a grinder would be sufficient to improvise a tool in about 5 minutes.
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That maybe over engineering but that is still cool.
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Won't it require TWO pin tools to secure the locknut, one for the locknut and one for the cup?
Seeing this design I have to wonder how often that riders in those days suffered loosening headsets while riding on less than securely tight headset nuts.
Seeing this design I have to wonder how often that riders in those days suffered loosening headsets while riding on less than securely tight headset nuts.
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if you have access to a VAR #13 adjustable pin wrench, those can have the pins facing either way — like the SPA-6 above before bending, or after bending it. Just remove the pins and thread them into the other holes.
Mark B in Seattle
Mark B in Seattle
It's possible that the steer tube is metric thread, which limits replacement parts if the current ones are worn beyond use, but there are some choices still available.
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Road bikes didn’t suffer that much from loose headsets. Mountain bikes of the early 80s to mid90s, on the other hand, often loosened on a each ride and had to be replaced often. There was a huge cottage industry for locking nuts on headsets. Some were as simple as shaft collars and others were engineering marvels with prices to match.
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Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!