How strong is strong?
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444
Bikes: bikes
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times
in
711 Posts
That his max hr is 20 bpm lower than your average is because of genetics.
#29
Duke Ulysses
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 800
Bikes: An old orange one for dirt, and for the other stuff: a white one, a kinda mint green one, and a black one.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 175 Times
in
86 Posts
How strong is strong?
Yes.
Yes.
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1096 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Seems to me that more often than not, describing a person as "strong" means that they have demonstrated a significant willingness and ability to stand up to and survive challenges and adversity - of any sort - that they are likely to succeed in the things they set out to do. Cyclists may not be very accomplished at lifting heavy stuff and ripping things apart, and while that is one well-understood sense of "strong," it's hardly the usual. I know I hear the word used to refer to a person's character or just about any other abilities far more often than I hear people using it to describe anyone's ability to move heavy things around.
Strong can mean winning races.
Strong can mean getting out the door every morning and put miles on the bike.
Strong can mean enduring a course of chemo, or 14 broken bones, or a heart transplant, and getting back to cycling again at all.
Strong is about not giving up.
#31
Passista
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,584
Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked 711 Times
in
392 Posts
Why not? Do you object to the use of the term "strong" because there is something else specific, besides the ability to move heavy stuff, that we should be focusing on? Or do we just want to exclude, or at least downplay that sense?
Seems to me that more often than not, describing a person as "strong" means that they have demonstrated a significant willingness and ability to stand up to and survive challenges and adversity - of any sort - that they are likely to succeed in the things they set out to do. Cyclists may not be very accomplished at lifting heavy stuff and ripping things apart, and while that is one well-understood sense of "strong," it's hardly the usual. I know I hear the word used to refer to a person's character or just about any other abilities far more often than I hear people using it to describe anyone's ability to move heavy things around.
Strong can mean winning races.
Strong can mean getting out the door every morning and put miles on the bike.
Strong can mean enduring a course of chemo, or 14 broken bones, or a heart transplant, and getting back to cycling again at all.
Strong is about not giving up.
Seems to me that more often than not, describing a person as "strong" means that they have demonstrated a significant willingness and ability to stand up to and survive challenges and adversity - of any sort - that they are likely to succeed in the things they set out to do. Cyclists may not be very accomplished at lifting heavy stuff and ripping things apart, and while that is one well-understood sense of "strong," it's hardly the usual. I know I hear the word used to refer to a person's character or just about any other abilities far more often than I hear people using it to describe anyone's ability to move heavy things around.
Strong can mean winning races.
Strong can mean getting out the door every morning and put miles on the bike.
Strong can mean enduring a course of chemo, or 14 broken bones, or a heart transplant, and getting back to cycling again at all.
Strong is about not giving up.
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,756
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3191 Post(s)
Liked 2,460 Times
in
1,489 Posts
You'll know strong when you see it. Now in the case of BO, you'll know it when you smell it.
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 6,016
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1814 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 923 Times
in
569 Posts
I spent some time working on getting up to 20 pull ups.
Got to 16 but the tendons were complaining so I gave it a rest. Can do 10 'tho.
I belong to a club that's mostly made up of the older set, & I enjoy a not well deserved reputation for being a strong rider,
so it's pretty much all about the context IMO. Anyone can be a strongman in the kindergarten class,
but there's always a class beyond where you are off the back.
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 6,016
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1814 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 923 Times
in
569 Posts
on another thread i came across the phrase "Since there are a lot of strong older cyclists on this forum..." this made me wonder how to determine how strong "strong" is. so, what is the guideline? what is your guideline? i'm 51 (is that old?) and i know what i can do and what i can't do. 20 years ago a century was a piece of cake. today it would probably take me all day with a big rest in the middle, if lucky.
-scott
-scott
Yeah but if you worked on it, in a season you could get back to the piece of cake century.
#35
In Real Life
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 52,152
Bikes: Lots
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3203 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times
in
329 Posts
on another thread i came across the phrase "Since there are a lot of strong older cyclists on this forum..." this made me wonder how to determine how strong "strong" is. so, what is the guideline? what is your guideline? i'm 51 (is that old?) and i know what i can do and what i can't do. 20 years ago a century was a piece of cake. today it would probably take me all day with a big rest in the middle, if lucky.
-scott
-scott
I was very happy with an 18 hour 18 minute 300K randonnee last March.
__________________
Rowan
My fave photo threads on BF
Century A Month Facebook Group
Machka's Website
Photo Gallery
Rowan
My fave photo threads on BF
Century A Month Facebook Group
Machka's Website
Photo Gallery
#36
Senior Member
#37
Voice of the Industry
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 12,572
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1188 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
8 Posts
Why not? Do you object to the use of the term "strong" because there is something else specific, besides the ability to move heavy stuff, that we should be focusing on? Or do we just want to exclude, or at least downplay that sense?
Seems to me that more often than not, describing a person as "strong" means that they have demonstrated a significant willingness and ability to stand up to and survive challenges and adversity - of any sort - that they are likely to succeed in the things they set out to do. Cyclists may not be very accomplished at lifting heavy stuff and ripping things apart, and while that is one well-understood sense of "strong," it's hardly the usual. I know I hear the word used to refer to a person's character or just about any other abilities far more often than I hear people using it to describe anyone's ability to move heavy things around.
Strong can mean winning races.
Strong can mean getting out the door every morning and put miles on the bike.
Strong can mean enduring a course of chemo, or 14 broken bones, or a heart transplant, and getting back to cycling again at all.
Strong is about not giving up.
Seems to me that more often than not, describing a person as "strong" means that they have demonstrated a significant willingness and ability to stand up to and survive challenges and adversity - of any sort - that they are likely to succeed in the things they set out to do. Cyclists may not be very accomplished at lifting heavy stuff and ripping things apart, and while that is one well-understood sense of "strong," it's hardly the usual. I know I hear the word used to refer to a person's character or just about any other abilities far more often than I hear people using it to describe anyone's ability to move heavy things around.
Strong can mean winning races.
Strong can mean getting out the door every morning and put miles on the bike.
Strong can mean enduring a course of chemo, or 14 broken bones, or a heart transplant, and getting back to cycling again at all.
Strong is about not giving up.
Below is the very definition of stronger than Lysol:
#38
Newbie racer
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,406
Bikes: Propel, red is faster
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,568 Times
in
973 Posts
Exactly.
For cycling, people need to look at it this way: for every fight a knife.
Those three instances: long distance high elevation fondo, track racing, and short to medium distance road racing........all require different "knives".
Both Julian Alaphillipe and Mark Cavendish are strong, but they just hone their knives different ways.
If you HAVE to put a hard and fast number on it for people who you just meet on the local group rides.........I would start to refer to a rider as "strong" once your 20 min w/kg surpasses 4.0. I'd say under 3.0 is totally recreational.
For recreation only, like group or hammer rides.......NOT racing...I'd say
C riders: 3.0 w/kg and less
B riders: 3.0 to 3.5
A riders: 3.5 to 4.0 (I find a 4.0 to be more than adequate)
A+/racerboy: over 4.0.....with ability to accelerate and pull gaps, and able to do some pretty rough efforts longer than 3 to 4 minutes
If we're talking people that race, forget it. The numbers are either much higher OR their skill set in the race is so elevated you can't adequately quantify "strong" versus "fast". As "fast" encompasses being smart also.
Even at equal gross w/kg levels though, if a rider can accelerate hard when working hard and recover quicker.......or hold threshold efforts for longer than your normal "fondo group rider" they'll usually break them down pretty quick.
This is why an equal w/kg for a triathlete isn't the same as a short distance road racer. Anything under 2 hours the road racer destroys the same w/kg person, if it's an individual long-distance TT.......the triathlete wins. Every fight a knife.
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,058
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 15,295 Times
in
7,229 Posts
Live strong. And prosper.
#40
Version 7.0
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,100
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1327 Post(s)
Liked 2,438 Times
in
1,425 Posts
Anyone who races track.
Races at the track, even endurance races, are in fact long sprints. We ride fixed gear no brakes which means we have to have a wider range of cadence capability and more strength for mass start races. The larger the gear selected the more strength is required to accelerate to close or open gaps.
And we have standing starts for many of our races including team events and executing a fast start matters. Unlike in a road time trial or team time trial where the standing start is done from a start house with a ramp and the race is much longer rendering the start immaterial to the result. It takes a lot of strength and technique to start a fixed gear bike in a large gear.
Old school philosophy was for road racers to ride fixed gear on the road with the goal of developing strength and leg speed during the strength and adaptation period of the training cycle.
As @burnthesheep said, track is a specialty with its own requirements. However, strength to weight ratio is an asset in all races at the track. And many UCI grand tour riders got their start at the track such as Wiggins and Cavendish who were also Madison partners and won the world championship.
Races at the track, even endurance races, are in fact long sprints. We ride fixed gear no brakes which means we have to have a wider range of cadence capability and more strength for mass start races. The larger the gear selected the more strength is required to accelerate to close or open gaps.
And we have standing starts for many of our races including team events and executing a fast start matters. Unlike in a road time trial or team time trial where the standing start is done from a start house with a ramp and the race is much longer rendering the start immaterial to the result. It takes a lot of strength and technique to start a fixed gear bike in a large gear.
Old school philosophy was for road racers to ride fixed gear on the road with the goal of developing strength and leg speed during the strength and adaptation period of the training cycle.
As @burnthesheep said, track is a specialty with its own requirements. However, strength to weight ratio is an asset in all races at the track. And many UCI grand tour riders got their start at the track such as Wiggins and Cavendish who were also Madison partners and won the world championship.
Last edited by Hermes; 09-19-18 at 09:12 AM.
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 8,550
Bikes: Wilier Izoard XP (Record);Cinelli Xperience (Force);Specialized Allez (Rival);Bianchi Via Nirone 7 (Centaur); Colnago AC-R Disc;Colnago V1r Limited Edition;De Rosa King 3 Limited(Force 22);DeRosa Merak(Red):Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Hydro(Di2)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 551 Post(s)
Liked 276 Times
in
144 Posts
Anyone put in "Army Strong", yet?
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,756
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3191 Post(s)
Liked 2,460 Times
in
1,489 Posts
I know after a long ride in the heat, my BO is really strong!
#43
Senior Member
This Woman Just Biked at 184 MPH to Smash the Bicycle Speed Record
"'So she’s no spring chicken at 45, but she’s a superb bike handler and at the peak of her strength after coming back after taking 23 years off and having three kids,' Howard said."
"'So she’s no spring chicken at 45, but she’s a superb bike handler and at the peak of her strength after coming back after taking 23 years off and having three kids,' Howard said."
#44
Voice of the Industry
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 12,572
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1188 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
8 Posts
This Woman Just Biked at 184 MPH to Smash the Bicycle Speed Record
"'So she’s no spring chicken at 45, but she’s a superb bike handler and at the peak of her strength after coming back after taking 23 years off and having three kids,' Howard said."
"'So she’s no spring chicken at 45, but she’s a superb bike handler and at the peak of her strength after coming back after taking 23 years off and having three kids,' Howard said."
She rides locally with the C group, not exactly a ringing endorsement of strength.
#46
Senior Member
#47
Version 7.0
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,100
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1327 Post(s)
Liked 2,438 Times
in
1,425 Posts
This Woman Just Biked at 184 MPH to Smash the Bicycle Speed Record
"'So she’s no spring chicken at 45, but she’s a superb bike handler and at the peak of her strength after coming back after taking 23 years off and having three kids,' Howard said."
"'So she’s no spring chicken at 45, but she’s a superb bike handler and at the peak of her strength after coming back after taking 23 years off and having three kids,' Howard said."
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,764
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1975 Post(s)
Liked 232 Times
in
173 Posts
I talked with Howard on several occasions about this event. She is over 1000 watts for the one mile qualifying run but not sure if that was average power or peak power but not 75 watts. She did a lot of strength work at the gym. Frictional forces due to rolling resistance at 182 mph on the salt flat are significant and the draft in the fairing changes and the power surges in her legs. I talked with her after her record last year and she was telling me how difficult it is to stay in the sweet spot of the draft. She is on my wife’s racing team. We were very happy for her with the result and nothing bad happened.