Bandera

Yet another Ignore.

-Bandera

Salamandrine 

I'd be really surprised if the caged bearing headsets were supposed to come with a split race. Can't see how that is supposed to work.

Just checked the VO website and they only mention split crown races for the sealed bearing headset.

SamSpade1941 

It appears sir you are correct

French sized frames use a 25.0mm steerer with a 22.0mm ID. The crown race is 26.5mm and the pressed race is 30.2 mm. Thread pitch is 1mm, or 25.4tpi. The final difference is that the steerer has a flat machined onto the back rather than a keyway, so a different washer is used. French headsets are getting very hard to find, but VO has one readily available.

SamSpade1941 

Problem is you were wrong and didn’t provide factual information .. and you were rude

natterberry 

Thats what I thought. Split race with cages would make for some rough steering.

Feldman

I have sold and installed a bunch of VO headsets without problems. Is the fork a new, Asian-made Motobecane fork or an older French one? Even the cheapest Chinese or Taiwanese fork is sized more consistently than a lot of 70's and 80s European-made ones. I'd have to wonder if the French fork had the crown race milled to the right diameter. It really pains me to say this, but many revered marques from the past are not dimensioned as accurately as current Asian product. I call this the "Taiwan appreciation lesson" if it is the case!

SamSpade1941 

NOS french made Vitus 172 Fork that was still in the bag , I delivered it to my LBS after calling them to see if they could do it for me . They confirmed they could and still have the Campagnolo tools from when they did this task routinely.

They have been in business since the early 70s .

I did post the fork in another thread

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...rk-advice.html

kingston 

Well that is embarrassing. My sincerest apologies

gugie 

Maybe I missed it in this thread, but what model of headset are you trying to install? VO sells several.

Some actual facts:

• The proper milling of a fork crown is 0.1mm oversize for an interference fit - The proper facing tool for a 26.4 headset mills to 26.5mm
• VO crown races are split for sealed bearing models only.
• I've never had a crown race split when attempting to install, even when I was trying to accidentally press a 26.4 on a 27.0 milled fork crown. Since the OP states it's milled to 26.5, I'd be concerned if two crown races have split, and so would VO.

SamSpade1941 

VO French headset Gugie

when i get the fork this evening or tomorrow I’ll retrieve the broken races

Salamandrine 

I don't think so. Just a guess though; I haven't done a comparative study. I don't recall a lot of problems BITD, but that being said new forks typically got the crown races chased before headset installation, along with the head tubes of course.

It was common for French bikes to have either 27.0 or 26.4 or 26.5, IIRC. Crown races got milled all the time from 27 to 26.4. It's a tedious task to do. BITD, somehow I always got stuck doing it. At any rate, if the shop in question had the campy tool, knew how to use it, and double checked everything by caliper, probably the problem is in fact what they say - bad race.

79pmooney

Does this VO headset look like this? https://velo-orange.com/products/headset-parts

The "split race" is a split sleeve with shoulder that slides easily over the crown, then the race itself slides over that sleeve. I've never seen such a headset, but then, I haven't seen everything.

I know this sounds like a broken record, but I am a huge fan of Tange headsets. Very consistent, never issues. Go reliably (at least for me) 8k miles before too much indexing, than another 1k with the next ball size up. Readily available in well marked packages. You can mix and match parts from different models and diameters to fit virtually any 1" steerered bike and stack height. Full quality chrome that takes wrenches well, even on their (very low stack) $8 OEM replacement headsets. The Passage fits my custom ti the best with a locknut from the cheapie. $14.

Ben

Eric S.

On one hand, if the shop cracked one race I'd think the mechanic might be prepared for some alteration of a replacement that was also not going on properly. I don't do a whole lot of headset installation but twice I've had to open up the crown race a little bit with a drill attachment.

BFisher

Perhaps the VO crown races are too hard/brittle?

I went through a similar thing with my '78 Grand Jubile - found a NOS replacement fork, but of Vitus 888 and longer blades/different geo.
I didn't want to have to replace the headset, as I like the look and adjustment of the original with the black top nut.

Very pleased with the ride, even with the altered front end, and got lucky that my headset was in such nice shape.
I can understand wanting to change due to aesthetic issues.

SamSpade1941 

@BFisher

Had my headset not had some putting and flaking in the chrome I would have re used it as it is a handsome headset. The Motobecane marked Stronglight headsets are quite handsome

The VO was just the most economical replacement I could find as I can’t really spend $100 plus on a NOS Campy or Shimano headset and honestly I did not want to spend $50 to $100 for a used one either .

BFisher

@SamSpade1941, It was a logical choice. I've had good experiences with VO in the past, and their headset does look good.

SamSpade1941 

I mostly have as well ...

their brake pads not so much.. I’m not going to say I will not try another one of their headsets but I’m going to examine both races first

clubman 

I wasn't trying to suggest that it was an install problem. Traditionally, a crown race is pretty tough to break, even if mismatched.

I've hand filed at least a few steerers in my day. Never had a proper machining tool.

SamSpade1941 

Ive heard of people hand filing them , haven’t tried it yet

Bad Lag

A simple measurement using a caliper would easily have identified the problem before anything was broken. To break TWO is not a hardware problem. It is a mechanic problem.

SamSpade1941 

Or defective parts .. plain and simple , Chinese made goods aren’t immune to that sort of thing . Especially at the price point of this headset .

Bad Lag

If the race is undersized or the crown is oversized, the caliper would tell the tale before installation.

If both are properly sized, it could be the race is too hard (brittle and cannot strain) or has a latent defect (notch or microcrack). Those are both possible but I wouldn't go there until I saw the measurements.

None were posted, so I am suspicious of the work. No argument was made against having to pay for a part replacement, either - more suspicion.

Usually, when tempering is improperly done, the parts are too soft not too hard. At least, that has been my experience with inexpensive Chinese goods.

No mention was made of the nature of the cracked race, either. Was it a brittle failure or tensile failure or...?

Anyway, those are my thoughts +/- some lack of continuity due to cut and paste changes.

Bad Lag

Generic question -

Is there anything wrong with having a somewhat less tight fit (by design) between the crown race and the crown. This might allow the race to move a tiny bit over time and avoid the dimpling (brinnelling) that has eventually killed every one of my headsets.

Does one occasionally rotate the races to avoid brinnelling?

I have also hand-fitted a crown race to a fork, at least once.

specialmonkey

Here's a little video,

https://vimeo.com/33045436

I was having trouble understanding what a split crown race is ... it seems they're just easier to remove and install on the steering tube / fork (no setting tool necessary).

I imagine they could be brittle or since the fork is not original to the bike, there may be size issues.

I second the recommendation for Tange headsets, have used JIS, ISO, and BMX!

I have also read split crown races are for sealed bearing headsets only. I am also interested to know if they hold up against brinelling longer?

FBOATSB

I won't comment on all the issues in this thread interesting as it is, as I don't claim the expertise, but any time I overhaul an old frame, especially one with unknown history, I do rotate the crown race and convert to loose balls. YMMV