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Quality vs Quantity, Your Success Stories

Old 09-28-19, 09:24 AM
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venturi95
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Quality vs Quantity, Your Success Stories

I find most days I have way less than 2 hours to ride, sometimes only 1:20 or so. I know this prevents building any real endurance, but what real-world results have you had? I am old (61) and not getting any lighter, which I find troubling (jk) as I used to enjoy climbing a lot more.
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Old 09-28-19, 10:17 AM
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I commute for 2 hrs a day so don't have your problem but I used to follow Kevin Metcalfe (US Masters champion) on Strava. While working during the winter he had a steady diet of 2x20 SST intervals during the week with longer rides on the weekend. Worked well for him but he was able to get in longer rides on the weekend.
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Old 09-28-19, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by venturi95
I find most days I have way less than 2 hours to ride, sometimes only 1:20 or so. I know this prevents building any real endurance, but what real-world results have you had? I am old (61) and not getting any lighter, which I find troubling (jk) as I used to enjoy climbing a lot more.
So you could ride 1:00 or so, 5 days/week, then a hard as possible 4 hour ride on one weekend day, that's 9-10 hours. That's my program on most weeks. On the five 1-hour rides, I'll do different things, sometime just steady endurance pace, some pedaling drills, some intervals. With that program, I can pretty much ride anything I want. 74, been doing about that for the past 20. It does build real endurance. I rode a 400k in the mountains at about your age with no more than that. A lot of that endurance comes from that 4 or so hour ride to exhaustion. The weekday rides are there to make that weekend ride possible. Consistency is everything.

Weight gain can be reversed by simply eating a little less at every meal, consciously stopping eating as soon as hunger is gone. This is the smaller servings approach, no real dietary change, the same thing, just less of it. Works like a charm over the years.
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Old 10-01-19, 08:50 AM
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I'm only 35, so results may vary............but in 2 1/2 to 3 years I've averaged about 5 hours per week overall (some more, some less) and have done the following:

Starting point: 82kg, 200w for 20min
Today: 70kg, 300w for 20min......currently working towards 310 and 320, can do 350w for 5min, around 700w for up to 30 to 45 seconds.

I highly suspect my outcomes are not typical. Meaning, it may be a case of "born with it" to an extent.
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Old 10-01-19, 09:51 AM
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Since the subject matter is about the lack of time to train, what about limiting time intentionally? A few years ago, I was training mostly for track racing at the velodrome with focus on the 2 kilometer pursuit and 500 meters. I was also doing some endurance riding on the road but mostly short efforts at the track.

My wife gets the idea, that we should race the state championship 40 kilometer time trial on our tandem. Racing 40K in the time trial position without enough saddle time just seemed wrong but I agreed to do it. She raced the 20K ITT in the morning and won and we raced the tandem in the afternoon and won that. However, I felt like I was sitting on sand paper for the last 10k and I suffered immensely.

The point is one can obtain a lot of fitness with not much saddle time but with a lot of intensity. However, without ample strength and adaptation in the saddle, longer rides are not fun. And I find that high intensity exercise is an appetite depressant versus longer, lower intensity rides makes me hungry. I am 2x BTS's age if that makes a difference.
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Old 10-01-19, 06:25 PM
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My success stories have all been about quantity, sorry. Before I did my first one-day STP I went to a lecture given by one of the record holders for that event. She said, "Distance equals strength." I've found that to be true. That said, one day a week for serious distance, i.e. riding to your limit, works well if supported by a certain amount of midweek moderate work.
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Old 10-02-19, 03:49 PM
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Here is another workout for you. Yesterday, I took my time trial bike to an island in San Diego where one can ride 4 mile laps of flat terrain. This time of year is strength and adaptation when preparing for events in the late spring. And I am getting over a cold.

I decide to do 2 laps of low cadence work in the aerobars. This means riding at 55 to 60 rpm and I my setup is a 54/44 11/23 cassette. I plan to do two laps in the 54/11 combination. I have to come up with a warmup routine for this effort.

I do 15 minutes of z2/z3 and then 3 seated 10 second accelerations and 1 standing acceleration with 1 minute RBI. I spin for a couple of minutes and then do a hard 30 second high power higher cadence. I spin again and then shift into 84 gear inches roll to a stop a punch it seated i.e a seated start about 10 seconds. I spin a little and then in 96 gear inches roll up to a stop and do a standing start. That completes the warmup and then I did two laps of tempo power low cadence laps. Total time was 1:05. I worked my ATP PC, glycolytic and aerobic systems.

If I would not have been sick, I would have done another two laps that would increase my time maybe another 25 minutes.

The goal is to get your juices flowing with an idea of a way to work all the systems in a short period of time and gain some fitness. You could skip the sprint front end that I did and just do 2x20 of tempo or just warmup and and do some sprints and starts, cool down and count it as a strength day.

There are a lot of ways to generate aerobic fitness and strength without a lot of time.

Having said that, if one want to spend 6 hours in the saddle then one has to practice sitting in the saddle for hours. YMMV.
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Old 10-02-19, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by gregf83
I commute for 2 hrs a day so don't have your problem but I used to follow Kevin Metcalfe (US Masters champion) on Strava. While working during the winter he had a steady diet of 2x20 SST intervals during the week with longer rides on the weekend. Worked well for him but he was able to get in longer rides on the weekend.
I follow him too. It's depressing. Doubly so when you have to race him and his team.

But yeah, 2x20s work. I also like 5x5' at 105%, with 1' recovery between intervals. First one is easy, second one is harder, third is getting really uncomfortable, fourth is I hate everything about this, fifth is somebody please shoot me. It's the going again after not fully recovering that really boosts fitness.
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Old 10-02-19, 04:46 PM
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I'm also a quantity over quality guy. I like to ride my bike, I have a 1 hour commute each way that is hilly so 8-12 hours/week, but I only "train" 2-3 times a week so ~2.5 hours of active training time. Could I cut out a bunch of hours in there and be as strong or stronger with a more structured program? Sure, but I like riding my bike and enjoying the scenery. Being fast and racing is but a small aspect of my riding.
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Old 10-03-19, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
So you could ride 1:00 or so, 5 days/week, then a hard as possible 4 hour ride on one weekend day, that's 9-10 hours. That's my program on most weeks. On the five 1-hour rides, I'll do different things, sometime just steady endurance pace, some pedaling drills, some intervals. With that program, I can pretty much ride anything I want. 74, been doing about that for the past 20. It does build real endurance. I rode a 400k in the mountains at about your age with no more than that. A lot of that endurance comes from that 4 or so hour ride to exhaustion. The weekday rides are there to make that weekend ride possible. Consistency is everything.

Weight gain can be reversed by simply eating a little less at every meal, consciously stopping eating as soon as hunger is gone. This is the smaller servings approach, no real dietary change, the same thing, just less of it. Works like a charm over the years.
Carbonfiberboy: 400km? You have way more natural ability and ambition than I do.
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Old 10-03-19, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by venturi95
Carbonfiberboy: 400km? You have way more natural ability and ambition than I do.
Ambition maybe. Desire, I call it. You have to want to. Natural ability not. The progression is 100k, then 200k, 300k, 400k, 600k, 1000k, 1200k. I never did more than 400k. There are randondonneuring clubs in most cities, very friendly. It's the Dark Side of cycling.
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Old 10-03-19, 09:19 PM
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Good, I can bring a suitcase full of darkness.
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Old 10-08-19, 08:16 PM
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There are two things I do when I only have an hour. One, during the nice weather, is to do laps of Prospect Park. It is a 3.3 mile loop and I can do 4 laps in an hour including the ride to and from the park. Since it is a closed loop there is no reason to stop or slow down (at the right time of day) and I can ride as hard as I'd like, or not. There is an uphill and downhill section too.

Two, get on the trainer and do a planned workout. Use Zwift, The Sufferfest, Rouvy, TrainerRoad, whatever system you'd like. These can be killer workouts and will give you the most bang for your time. There are workouts designed for all of your different goals. Pick a few, vary them, do what you want. Just keep at it and you'll be kickin' butt in no time.
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Old 10-09-19, 06:55 PM
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My success story from 2 years ago (I’ve since fallen off):

Weekly efforts:
-1 two-hour group ride, average 16-18 mph with a few significant climbs and one straight section where we picked up pace and averaged about 22-24 mph for about 20 minutes.
-2 20-minute sprint sessions of 30-second sprint intervals, (10 total 30-second efforts over 20 minutes).


Result:
a. I was able to keep up on the Monday night ride, and even excel and be one of the faster riders, on par with some riders who rode 2 hours most days and 3-4 hours on Saturdays.

b. I entered 2 cyclocross races, and after doing badly on the first, I learned a few things and was able to finish middle of the pack, and even catch up and pass some people after recoving from a chain malfunction.

I don’t have a power meter, so no hard numbers. I went pretty hard in my sprint sessions, such that they were way harder than the 2 hour Monday ride. But they definitely worked...I gained significant speed and endurance in a short period of time, noticeable gains in a couple weeks...able to keep up with many other high-volume riders in a couple months.

(I was 36 at the time)
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Old 10-12-19, 04:09 AM
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This year I did the Seattle to Portland ride (I'm 62.) I did 2 things in training for it and I generally average less than 5 hours per week on the bike:
  1. For the past 3 years, over the winter I do Zwift on an indoor trainer. I did more workouts than just riding, generally high intensity/short duration type intervals. I tried to follow The Time Crunched Cyclist experience century training plan. I don't really train outdoors - I don't have a power meter and my outdoor riding is for fun. But on the indoor trainer, I created workouts that mirrored the Time Crunch Cyclist progression. I didn't really stick to it, didn't do it 3-4 times per week but I created Zwift workouts from the plan and did as many as I could.
  2. I also did indoor spin classes over the winter, and some of them also included intervals
That really seemed to work - I ended up doing 122 miles on the first day and if I hadn't booked a room back at mile 105 I would have kept going because had plenty of legs and time left.. (Not enough to do the 206 miles in one day, though...) The 84 miles on the second day were easy, too.

The previous year I had done the completely flat Salisbury SeaGull Century here in Maryland, at a higher average speed but with zero climbing, and felt more tired at the end than after the STP (which isn't that hilly, but had about 2500' of climbing per 100 miles compared to 400 for the Seagull!)
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Old 10-12-19, 05:13 PM
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Rest periods




I only did one other ride in between these segments, about 1 mile of lightpole to lightpole interval sprints...
i actually felt like I was going slower on these segments, I felt weaker and wished I could pull another gear.. how you feel is not always right I suppose.
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Old 10-13-19, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
So you could ride 1:00 or so, 5 days/week, then a hard as possible 4 hour ride on one weekend day, that's 9-10 hours. That's my program on most weeks. On the five 1-hour rides, I'll do different things, sometime just steady endurance pace, some pedaling drills, some intervals. With that program, I can pretty much ride anything I want. 74, been doing about that for the past 20. It does build real endurance. I rode a 400k in the mountains at about your age with no more than that. A lot of that endurance comes from that 4 or so hour ride to exhaustion. The weekday rides are there to make that weekend ride possible. Consistency is everything.

Weight gain can be reversed by simply eating a little less at every meal, consciously stopping eating as soon as hunger is gone. This is the smaller servings approach, no real dietary change, the same thing, just less of it. Works like a charm over the years.

this
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Old 10-19-19, 11:18 AM
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I think quantity is less mentally draining than constantly riding at a high intensity several times a week. This season, I spent two days a week doing high intensity work at the velodrome. While it greatly improved many aspects of my riding, it killed my endurance. I found it very hard to ride long distances after a hard track workout. My legs were just dead. Prior, I was doing just one workout a week at the velodrome. Next year, I think I will go back to that program. Find a fast group ride to replace the 2nd track workout maybe.

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Old 10-20-19, 08:35 AM
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In general, track workouts have a higher neuromuscular component than road cycling on a geared bike. For example, when I do a structured workout at the track, I start out in a warmup gear. I then change to race gears. I race in a 94 or 96. So all the efforts I do including getting on the track and accelerating to speed or any effort or change in speed will require an acceleration in 96 gear inches. Over time, these accelerations are very fatiguing due to stress put on the muscles.

If the workout is a sprint workout including a warmup, jumps and 4x100 meter flying max efforts, that will wreck me. And the fatigue hangs around.

The coach I used last year has a derating scale for his track and trainer workouts. He provides a workout and depending on whether one does it on the road, track or trainer, the durations are modified to take into account the effects of the track and trainer versus the road.
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