3alarmer 

.
...in the earliest years of clipless, I had a lot of trouble finding something with enough "float" to accommodate my various foot and knee issues. I realize they fixed that, somewhere along the way. But by then I was heavily invested in clips and straps, so I lacked further incentive to experiment. But I do reiterate that you are probably much, much safer on a bicycle going fast, if you can keep your feet on the pedals when you hit a big bump or a pothole.

And those track guys use reliable foot retention for a reason.

tomato coupe

No. Let's stick with reality here.

PeteHski

While I do use clipless pedals on my road bikes. I don’t have any illusions about generating any power on the upstroke.

https://www.cyclefit.co.uk/journal/c...ling-technique

“Dr Jeff Broker has done extensive pedalling kinesiology tests on 100 elite and professional cyclists over 10 years and his data shows that not one of them produces a meaningful upstroke. So what hope is there for the rest of us?”

big john

When compared to CLIP, CLIPFBACK resulted in a significant increase in pedalling effectiveness during upstroke
Effects of pedal type and pull-up action during cycling - PubMed (nih.gov)

• More efficient power transfer and smoother pedalling technique
• Secure foot placement on the pedal which stops your foot sliding off
• Better for climbing up hills where you can take advantage of an upward pedal stroke

Flat pedals vs. clipless pedals | CANYON US

livedarklions

The issue is that it comes at the cost of reduced net efficiency. Looks like it is best for short fast climb and sprints, but bad for endurance. That about right?

Camilo

The pulling up is mostly a myth.

Always fun to buy stuff for the bike! (serious)

genejockey 

You gotta commit to the bit.

genejockey 

Uncomfortable is the ass that sits on the throne.

genejockey 

Are you new here?

big john

Seems like that's what they are saying. I just wanted to dispute the dogma. The other thing I quoted is just s shpiel from Canyon bikes. I could probably find more but meh.

rsbob 

CliffordK

It is not just "Try".

You have to go all-in if one is doing this. Not just one ride. But, perhaps a few weeks or months. A couple of century rides.

For those that used toe clips, the conversion to clipless is generally quick and easy, but not without a couple of speed bumps.

For those that have never had foot retention, there are a few new things to learn. I.E. The foot doesn't just slip off the side of the pedal and down to the ground. One must consciously unclip, sometimes a few yards before one plans to stop.

Toe clips (without cleats), one can push down and back to release. With cleats, one can add a twist. Pre loosening straps can help, but is only necessary for getting the foot back into the pedal.

Clipless, a good twist and perhaps upward lift to get the foot out.

My biggest issues with clipless came with riding up my driveway. If I lost traction and lost forward momentum, I got caught a couple of times not getting my feet to the ground quickly enough. I learned to watch the no forward momentum moments.

VegasJen

Well, of course, the increase will be significant. If you don't have any kind of foot retention system and are on flat pedals, your upstroke efficiency will be zero. Literally anything is a significant increase.

big john

You are reading it wrong.

ofajen

Ok, so this is the actual text from the paper abstract about their results, distinct from Canyon’s rewrite, just in case there is a lack of clarity:

”There was no significant difference for pedalling effectiveness, net mechanical efficiency (NE) and muscular activity between PED and CLIP. When compared to CLIP, CLIPFBACK resulted in a significant increase in pedalling effectiveness during upstroke (86 % for C and 57 % NC, respectively), as well as higher biceps femoris and tibialis anterior muscle activity (p < 0.001). However, NE was significantly reduced (p < 0.008) with 9 % and 3.3 % reduction for C and NC, respectively. Consequently, shoe-pedal interface (PED vs. CLIP) did not significantly influence cycling technique during submaximal exercise. However, an active pulling-up action on the pedal during upstroke increased the pedalling effectiveness, while reducing net mechanical efficiency.”

Otto

Paul Barnard

There have been a lot of tests done on this and most cyclists aren't doing enough pulling to make a meaningful difference. You won't likely see any difference in your times.

big john

Yeah, sorry bout the two links running together there.

nomadmax 

I like coming back to these threads after a good ride and a couple glasses of wine Much more enjoyable

PeteHski

I only read the Abstract of that study. How did they measure pedal effectiveness and what did they mean by pedal force feedback?

All the data I’ve seen from various studies of power measurement shows varying degrees of negative torque during the upstroke at normal cadence and relatively high power. Pro cyclists are generally better at minimising this negative upstroke torque ie they do a better job of unweighting their leg. If there is data to show someone producing significant positive torque on the upstroke while pedalling at a normal cadence and relatively high power I would love to see it. Maybe the study you linked shows that somewhere?

I ride clipless on my road bike and flats on my mtb. I don’t find my feet lifting up off the pedals during the upstroke when switching from clipless to flats. So I know I’m not producing power on the upstroke. I also rode mtb clipless for many years before switching to flats and I didn’t notice any significant loss in power.

But anyway, there are plenty of other good reasons to use clipless pedals, so definitely worth trying.

big john

I only read the thing, I don't know how they measured, I would assume power meter of some flavor. Those are the first two things that popped up when I searched. I cannot vouch for their validity. I just wanted to introduce the idea to challenge the dogma that it's impossible to pull up and we should all throw away our pedals.

The way I read it, they had the test subjects concentrate on pulling up with some sort of "feedback".

randallr

+1 I went to Speedplay pedals in the late 90's and never looked back. I do have an "around town" errand bike with no retention system, but my serious bike, the one that gets used heavily, still has Speedplays. I love them, especially jetting away from a stop light or climbing out of the saddle.

ofajen

No worries.

Otto

SpeedyBlueBiker

I don't know if it will make you faster or not, but I really like being clipped in. I feel that I have more control of the bike and my feet are also in the best position on the pedal to deliver as much power more efficiently.

VegasJen

Summation of the entire subject.

Koyote

Lots of posters are claiming that "studies" prove their points, but most of them aren't providing any citations. In my world, we don't give such people a first thought, much less a second thought.

And don't get me started on the posters who've never used clipless, or the poster who tried it once and fell down a bunch of times and then came here to tell us all that we're idiots for using clipless pedals. There's a whole lot of confirmation bias going on with some of those folks.