Notices
Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

Track bike on smart trainer?

Old 03-17-18, 05:22 PM
  #51  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 77 Posts
All this talk about Lemond trainers has me curious. I've never used one.

How would you describe the feel? Can you load initial resistance on it for standing starts? Or is it simply best used for rolling stuff at speed?
carleton is offline  
Old 03-19-18, 10:40 AM
  #52  
alfa111
Junior Member
 
alfa111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 22

Bikes: 2015 Fuji Track Elite, 1990-something Steel Fuji Fixie conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Looks like TrackHackSolutions on facebook is selling these for $250 each. That seems a little steep.

I'm going to modify the bearing pressfit dimensions and send the drawing back to my machinist, then I'll see how much he'll charge for 5 or 10 of these.

The typical road skewer works fine, all it needed was two spacers from a leftover fixed gear hub, and I cut down the sleeve from the original shimano freewheel setup (seen in black on the spindle).

https://photos.app.goo.gl/FoxdaLWSLG7OYVLD2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/x2jErEB3q7NtNMik2

chainline looks perfect:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/quD6ssJacoKbbyoq1

As far as standing starts, I'd say it'll work fine. It has a lot of intertia, but not as much as a 220lb guy on the track, so to mimic that I would run a larger gear than on the track for standing starts. I'll try some starts on it tonight and see how it goes.
alfa111 is offline  
Old 03-19-18, 11:04 AM
  #53  
Morelock
Senior Member
 
Morelock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 644
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times in 37 Posts
That looks really good. If a Lemond comes by on the cheap I might give it a closer look now.
Morelock is offline  
Old 03-19-18, 12:24 PM
  #54  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 77 Posts
Originally Posted by alfa111
Looks like TrackHackSolutions on facebook is selling these for $250 each. That seems a little steep.

I'm going to modify the bearing pressfit dimensions and send the drawing back to my machinist, then I'll see how much he'll charge for 5 or 10 of these.

The typical road skewer works fine, all it needed was two spacers from a leftover fixed gear hub, and I cut down the sleeve from the original shimano freewheel setup (seen in black on the spindle).

https://photos.app.goo.gl/FoxdaLWSLG7OYVLD2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/x2jErEB3q7NtNMik2

chainline looks perfect:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/quD6ssJacoKbbyoq1

As far as standing starts, I'd say it'll work fine. It has a lot of intertia, but not as much as a 220lb guy on the track, so to mimic that I would run a larger gear than on the track for standing starts. I'll try some starts on it tonight and see how it goes.
Looks awesome!

One good thing is that since you are using a proper track cog on the rear, you could rig up a way to put the speed sensor next to the flywheel that would have a magnet doube-sided taped to it. And that would get you speed that might be close to real world simulations. It would a nice bonus to find that it's calibrated to provide exponential resistance based on the speed of the flywheel and having it match the real world for a given generic CdA.

Also, maybe engage a chain tensioner on the drive side before doing starts. The skewers may allow for slipping.

One more question: Does the fan have some sort of gate on it to allow you to fine-tune resistance like the Wattbike does? Are you doomed to have to switch chainrings/cogs to get different resistance levels?
carleton is offline  
Old 03-19-18, 01:15 PM
  #55  
alfa111
Junior Member
 
alfa111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 22

Bikes: 2015 Fuji Track Elite, 1990-something Steel Fuji Fixie conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks guys! Yeah, I'm sure that would work, however I have the wattbox power meter for mine which uses a magnet placed on the non-drive side of the 'wheel'. It uses the known mass of the flywheel and takes into account pressure and temperature to estimate force to spin the fan. Not as exact as a strain-gauge power meter but it'll work for me.

https://www.bikerumor.com/2014/01/27...-now-shipping/

If the skewer slips during starts, I'll just throw a track nut on the drive side since the spindle threads are the same as rear hub axle threads.

You're stuck switching gears if you want to change resistance which is unfortunate for warmup to workout-effort transitions. The fan isn't adjustable and if it were, the power meter would be really inaccurate.
alfa111 is offline  
Old 03-19-18, 01:18 PM
  #56  
REDMASTA
Senior Member
 
REDMASTA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Traveling through time, will return last week.
Posts: 730

Bikes: Bare Rum Sword Knuckle Runner

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 278 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 64 Posts
I have my Fuji track on a Kurt Kinetic smart trainer.
REDMASTA is offline  
Old 03-20-18, 08:17 AM
  #57  
pi03k
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by REDMASTA
I have my Fuji track on a Kurt Kinetic smart trainer.
@REDMASTA
Have you used track cone cups or did you have success with original cons cups?
kurtkinetic.com/cone-cup-adapters-products/track-cone-cups
pi03k is offline  
Old 03-20-18, 09:24 AM
  #58  
REDMASTA
Senior Member
 
REDMASTA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Traveling through time, will return last week.
Posts: 730

Bikes: Bare Rum Sword Knuckle Runner

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 278 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 64 Posts
Originally Posted by pi03k
@REDMASTA
Have you used track cone cups or did you have success with original cons cups?
kurtkinetic.com/cone-cup-adapters-products/track-cone-cups
I use the standard cone cups, work fine with the track nuts on my fuji. It comes with one slotted and one non-slotted cup, but I ordered an extra non-slotted so that they match. Haven't tried the "Track Cone Cups" so can't comment if they are any better.
REDMASTA is offline  
Old 03-20-18, 10:46 AM
  #59  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 77 Posts
How are these Track Cone Cups to be used? I've never seen them before.



EDIT: Answered my own question:

https://support.kurtkinetic.com/hc/e...with-axle-nuts


Single speed or track bikes will need either two of the Standard Cone Cups (shown above) or two of the Track Cone Cups which are slightly larger than the Standard Cone Cup. Current model Kinetic trainers come with one Standard cup and one Slotted Cup. Bikes with standard 15mm axle nuts will work with the Standard Cone Cup on both sides. (image above)

Check to see if the axle nuts fit securely inside the Standard Cone Cup (image below). Some track bikes have axle nuts that are larger or do not fit well in the Standard Cone Cup that comes on the trainer. Those bikes will require our Track Cone Cups on both sides.
carleton is offline  
Old 03-20-18, 12:58 PM
  #60  
REDMASTA
Senior Member
 
REDMASTA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Traveling through time, will return last week.
Posts: 730

Bikes: Bare Rum Sword Knuckle Runner

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 278 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 64 Posts
Like @carleton posted the standard cone cups fit over the track nuts. I specifically bought the Kurt Kinetic trainer because you can use them with 120mm spaced hubs. The Wahoo trainers for example won't work, so keep that in mind when shopping around. Calibrating a fixed gear is a little funny since you have to take your feet off the pedals to "coast" but otherwise sets up fine. The smart trainers also have ERG mode which is really useful.

I got the rock n' roll version since i wanted to be able to stand up and sprint more naturally, it's a neat feature but the unit itself is a BEAST. it's definitely something you need to leave set up, unlike some smaller lightweight trainers you could move out of the way. Doing some rearranging as I just got a new monitor and Apple TV 4k to run Zwift on instead of the laptop I was using. I'll post some pictures up if you're interested.
REDMASTA is offline  
Old 03-23-18, 10:00 AM
  #61  
alfa111
Junior Member
 
alfa111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 22

Bikes: 2015 Fuji Track Elite, 1990-something Steel Fuji Fixie conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by carleton
Looks awesome!



Also, maybe engage a chain tensioner on the drive side before doing starts. The skewers may allow for slipping.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9JTdVfrPH07lAArC3

Did quite a few standing starts and hard efforts on it and the skewer wasn't slipping at all.

Finally having a power meter -- even if it is on a trainer -- is a game changer for me.
alfa111 is offline  
Old 03-23-18, 10:35 AM
  #62  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 77 Posts
Originally Posted by alfa111
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9JTdVfrPH07lAArC3

Did quite a few standing starts and hard efforts on it and the skewer wasn't slipping at all.

Finally having a power meter -- even if it is on a trainer -- is a game changer for me.
Nice!
carleton is offline  
Old 05-12-18, 11:20 PM
  #63  
alfa111
Junior Member
 
alfa111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 22

Bikes: 2015 Fuji Track Elite, 1990-something Steel Fuji Fixie conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Finally got 10 parts back from the machine shop! I'll press in bearing and put together kits with fasteners and spacers then put these up for sale.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/whPtADWFhyvKgQrMA
alfa111 is offline  
Old 05-15-18, 10:07 AM
  #64  
rensho3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Santa Ana
Posts: 279

Bikes: Fuji Elite, 3Rensho track, Trek Madone 6.9, Specialized MTB, GT MTB, Cannondale Cad3 fixie

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I just started using a CycleOps Magna with my track bike. I do a lot of interval training on it when I can't get to VSC and it works well. The only problem I have had is that when you rest in between sets, the trainer goes to sleep and it takes a couple of minutes for it to wake up and settle down to the selected resistance. It seems to default to huge resistance, which is a little bit tough when you are doing rev-ups. Works for practicing standing starts though! I like the basic structural configuration because it has a notched selector on the frame that adjusts for three different drop out distances. I guess I am just lazy, and really like being able to easily change the configuration between road and track bike sizes.
rensho3 is offline  
Old 05-22-18, 12:23 AM
  #65  
hotwheels1
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Do you have any of these kits left for sale?
hotwheels1 is offline  
Old 05-27-18, 11:07 PM
  #66  
alfa111
Junior Member
 
alfa111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 22

Bikes: 2015 Fuji Track Elite, 1990-something Steel Fuji Fixie conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by hotwheels1
Do you have any of these kits left for sale?
Yes sir, I just finished putting the kits together but still working on writing installation instructions. I have 10 for sale that are all ready to ship, I just put them up on my otherwise blank website. Let me know if you have any questions

https://sasquatchlegs.com/shop?olsPage=products
alfa111 is offline  
Old 10-22-18, 10:12 PM
  #67  
krispenhartung
Senior Member
 
krispenhartung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 231

Bikes: S-Works Venge Dura-Ace DI2, KTM Strada 4000, Fuji Norcom Straight 1.3 (TT), Fuji Track Elite, BMC Trackmachine TR02

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Not sure where to put this, but I have since given up on figuring out a way to put my track bike on a smart trainer with its own drive train/cassette. I found a solution that works better for me. I connect my power meter my training app (Rouvy), and use Kreitler rollers with the killer headwind fan. I find that with some trial and error and using the various settings on the fan, I can match the resistance of the sprint lane on a velodrome. This allows me to do these new Rouvy virtual workouts I just uploaded with synced video, taken last weekend.

Hopefully this attracts a few others who are stuck indoors most of the winter and looking for some velodrome virtual rides with synced video. Beats doing Z2-3 on rollers and staring at a mote of dust in the air. ;-) I recorded some GoPro footage last weekend at the Alpenrose Velodrome in Portland, OR, and created 4 routes:

500m TT — https://my.rouvy.com/virtual-routes/...7468?useHost=1

18K (11mi) — https://my.rouvy.com/virtual-routes/...7448?useHost=1

26K (16mi) — https://my.rouvy.com/virtual-routes/...7455?useHost=1

40K (24.7mi) - https://my.rouvy.com/virtual-routes/...7458?useHost=1
krispenhartung is offline  
Old 10-24-18, 03:15 PM
  #68  
krispenhartung
Senior Member
 
krispenhartung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 231

Bikes: S-Works Venge Dura-Ace DI2, KTM Strada 4000, Fuji Norcom Straight 1.3 (TT), Fuji Track Elite, BMC Trackmachine TR02

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by alfa111
Yes sir, I just finished putting the kits together but still working on writing installation instructions. I have 10 for sale that are all ready to ship, I just put them up on my otherwise blank website. Let me know if you have any questions

https://sasquatchlegs.com/shop?olsPage=products
I just sent you a private message...I am thinking of pulling the trigger on this.
krispenhartung is offline  
Old 08-07-19, 09:24 AM
  #69  
Kaben
Senior Member
 
Kaben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Just adding this here for anyone who finds this thread via google like i have in the past, but i have recently discovered this adaptor from NZ company Velobike. This fixes the 120mm spacing issue and allows you to fit a fixed gear track bike to the 2014 and 2016 Wahoo Kickrs. Not sure about the most recent versions. https://www.velobike.co.nz/wahoo-adaptor It is quite expensive though, but i guess thats the nture of the beast for small batch parts.

About to buy soon so will update with my experiences once i have had a chance t put some hours on it. Still recovering from herniated disc so may be a while before i can give it a real sprint effort test.
Kaben is offline  
Old 08-07-19, 06:59 PM
  #70  
colnago62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 741 Post(s)
Liked 412 Times in 230 Posts
The CycleOps Magnus wheel on trainer has a setting for 120 mm spacing. I use mine in ergo mode. It seems to work best in a bigger gear. I build workouts on TrainingPeaks and run them on Zwift.
colnago62 is offline  
Old 08-07-19, 11:23 PM
  #71  
Timski5162
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
One other option to consider is the Stac Zero Halcyon. It’s very flexible in adapting to different axel sizes, so you can quickly switch from a road bike to track bike to just about whatever. I’ve been using one all year and have been quite happy with the performance and features. It’s also quite portable and runs off a battery so it’s easy to take to the track or races for a warm-up.
Timski5162 is offline  
Old 08-08-19, 02:12 PM
  #72  
JuiceWillis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by colnago62
The CycleOps Magnus wheel on trainer has a setting for 120 mm spacing. I use mine in ergo mode. It seems to work best in a bigger gear. I build workouts on TrainingPeaks and run them on Zwift.
I do the same, I use my 54t and a 14t cog and use Erg mode for everything but all out sprints.
JuiceWillis is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 03:51 AM
  #73  
Neilvn
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Wahoo Kickr Fixed gear adaptor

Check out Velobike, a New Zealand based shop. They have machined a part that allows you to run a track bike / fixie on the Wahoo kickr 2014 and 2016 models.
Neilvn is offline  
Likes For Neilvn:
Old 12-30-19, 09:35 PM
  #74  
Velo Bike
Junior Member
 
Velo Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Neilvn
Check out Velobike, a New Zealand based shop. They have machined a part that allows you to run a track bike / fixie on the Wahoo kickr 2014 and 2016 models.
We have now made one fro the Generation 4 (2018) Kickr, and about to release one for the Tacx Flux. The Neo will be next =)
Velo Bike is offline  
Likes For Velo Bike:
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
krispenhartung
Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area
86
01-20-21 12:09 AM
Godsight
Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area
38
02-27-15 10:15 PM
popeye
Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area
5
11-18-13 08:57 PM
Bikeforumuser0017
Training & Nutrition
14
12-11-12 11:32 AM
rbpanaligan
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
8
04-16-11 01:50 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.