vinuneuro

I currently ride Shimano CT-41 touring shoes. While they have been supremely comfortable on and off the bike, that off the bike comfort is sacrificing a lot of pedaling efficiency and I'm looking to get something a bit stiffer.

There seems to be a spectrum of cycling shoe sole stiffness. How stiff are your shoes? There is an abundance of carbon soled shoes. Should I avoid shoes with them for 100+ miles rides and go with the reinforced plastic ones which are also very stiff but have a bit more give?

iTrod

I really like the SIDI MTB Dominator 7 which take SPD cleats. They are reasonably comfortable for walking and seem plenty stiff for my 200 lb frame when I am dancing on the pedals. I use the Mega version since I have wide feet. SIDI also makes a stiffer carbon fiber soled MTB Dragon 4. I don't see a reason to go this rigid and I bet they are not as comfortable for walking. The downside: SIDI shoes are expensive!

Spoonrobot 

How do you know this?

vinuneuro

They are very flexible shoes. You can feel it while pedaling.

vinuneuro

Thanks. After doing more research and reading, it sounds like one or two notches down from all-out race shoes might be the way to go since I do get off the bike from time to time. Will check out the Sidi Dominator's as they seem to be along those lines and very popular across different type of cyclists.

Spoonrobot 

I don't believe shoe stiffness makes a difference in how efficient someone can pedal. However, if you feel like it's an issue there's no reason not to resolve. Make sure you do not get shoes that are too stiff or too narrow. I have had several customers return high end race shoes because they were too stiff and causing problems with hot spots and sore feet. This is exacerbated by the fact that a lot of high end shoes are designed for skinny professional cyclists who often have much narrower feet than a more average proportioned human being.

vinuneuro

I am finding that a challenge. My feet are very wide and to make things worse it seems that cycling shoes are generally quite narrow. So there are a limited number of wider options.

unterhausen

I am pretty sure that as long as your shoes aren't flexing enough that you can feel the cleat pressing into your foot, they are not costing any efficiency. I know people that use street shoes and platform pedals on long rides.

McBTC

Progress: shoes to adding clips to putting cleats on bike-specific leather shoes to SPDs to Look and... back to shoes with clips. Speedplay-specific SIDIs would be nice but that'd be half the price of a new alloy bike with 105 components.

CliffordK

A flexible sole is good for walking. Stiff is harder to walk on.

However on the bike, perhaps stiffer the better. But, I don't know how much difference it really makes, as long as you don't feel any sore spots on the feet.

Lake makes some good lightweight carbon fiber soled walkable SPD shoes. They do run slightly long. I think they may also come in different widths.

Machka 

I was using Lake Mtn Bike shoes from many years ago which were reasonably stiff, yet also pretty good for walking. Years passed and my feet started cramping on some rides.

I determined that some of the cramping issues were due to dehydration ... every time I am dehydrated my feet cramp, even while just walking ... but as the months went on, my feet were cramping on the bicycle even when I wasn't dehydrated. I tried electrolytes, stretching, different socks, and all sorts of ideas to no avail.

Finally I dug a pair of newer Lake Mtn Bike shoes out of the closet and set them up. They have stiffer soles than my old Lakes, when they were new, and much stiffer soles than my old Lakes after years of use. They aren't as stiff as my road shoes, but they are stiff enough it is actually a little difficult to walk ... I feel a bit like Frankenstein!

But ... my feet have not cramped since I started using them.

There might be something to be said for shoes that are a bit on the stiffer side.


My old Lakes were an older version of these:
https://lakecycling.com/collections/...nt=28169555657

I would go for another pair of them, if I could get ahold of them.

I think my new ones are also MX-100, but they did something slightly different with the style a year or two there, so my new ones look a bit sleeker and narrower than the older version. They're all right, but I'd prefer something a little bit wider next time.

unterhausen

I use a Giro Privateer R HV. link

The sole is flexible enough to walk on, but it works great on the bike. The HV is just barely wide enough for my feet. I usually go up a size because my feet swell after about 90 miles. I used to get the tightest shoe that felt comfortable, but that's just silly. It really doesn't hurt anything to be a little loose, and one size up means you can still tighten the top of the shoe, which is the most important part.

Carbonfiberboy 

Most randos around here ride Sidi Dominators. They're a pretty stiff shoe. Maybe not the stiffest, but I can't feel the pedal through the sole and that's the key thing. If you can feel the pedal, you need stiffer shoes IMO. Been there. The Dominators are an MTB shoe, so it's SPD pedals with them. For rando, I think walkability is important at least to the extent of comfortably walking across a parking lot and through a grocery store, hence the MTB thing. Basically I'd say the stiffest MTB shoe that feels like you could walk a hundred yards in them at 3 am when you're exhausted and wet. Dominators are expensive, but they last forever. Be sure to get the right size because you will be wearing them pretty much forever. Good amortization. My feet actually shrink during a long ride. Or maybe my socks just squish. I think just the right socks are important, too. I don't like thin racer socks.

Machka 

Mine swell during long rides or runs.

And yes, the socks are important. What works for me is a thin sock with a thin wool sock over it. Or if it is cold, a thin sock with a thick wool sock over. And seamless or as close to that as they can get.

79pmooney

Like the rest of the stuff that interacts with our bodies, the best shoes vary from person to person. So does the best sole stiffness.

Back in a distant millenium when I was a certified racer, my favorite she and the shoe I rode the ride of my life wearing was a shoe that we would say now was quite flexy. The plastic soled Puma. For me, so comfortable that I could lace them up tight enough for a race that I knew would be very hard the last 18 , hang around for two hours while we waited for the official who missed his plane, race for 4 hours at a course setting pace, then sit in a van, wasted for the four hour ride home. Half way I remembered I was still wearing my shoes, still laced up tight. That race, everything was perfect for me (except my race tactics - a story for another day). Nothing, clothing, equipment, shoes ... slowed me down or ever came into my consciousness.

A couple of years later I bought the wooden soled Duegis. Stiff! Nowhere near as good a shoe for me for extracting the best out of my legs. Others loved them.

I don't like really flexy soles, but moderate flex that isn't just at the cleat works well for me and too stiff doesn't.

Ben

Tourist in MSN

Just a side note on some shoes that I had foot pain issues with.

I have a pair of Pearl Izumi shoes with SPD cleats that after about 20 miles I would start having foot pain. Could not figure it out, tried lots of things. Taking the insole out and looking inside, everything looked fine. But, most SPD shoes that I have used had a flap that had been cut out to install the cleat hardware, then the flap was re-closed. These shoes giving me a problem did not have a flap cut out, but instead had a rectangular shaped hole and a piece of foam put in the hole instead. Feeling the foam, it was apparent that the foam was soft and easily compressible. Thus, when I pedaled, I was effectively trying to force my foot into a small rectangular hole.

I once before had trouble with Pearl Izumi costumer service on a warranty claim, so I did not even bother trying that. But I did not want to discard them either. Instead I cut a rectangular piece of tin coated steel sheet (from the lid and bottom of a large coffee can) with a tin snips and placed that in the shoe so that it overlapped the hole in the foot bed. Secured it in place with a small piece of tape. And, no more problems after that. When I pedaled, the steel was strong enough to support my weight and not collapse into the hole, giving me a smooth flat surface under the insole.

Bottom line - if a pair of bike shoes gives you foot pain, look under the insole to see if the food bed has a surface where your cleat hardware is that could be causing the problem. An irregular food bed could be the problem.

***

I bought a pair of Keen Commuter 4 sandals. Fit great. And before even riding on them, I pulled out the insole to see what it looked like. And it looked like it might cause me some problems because I could see the cleat hardware, it had an irregular shape to the footbed. So before even riding with it, I cut a couple pieces of sheet steel (also from large coffee can lid and bottom) to place over that area, secured it in place with tape and put the insole back in. Works great and I love these Commuter 4 sandals, enough that I got a second pair. But I can see where they would have caused me a problem if I had not made the modification that I did.


My Keen Commuter 4 sandles fit a wide foot quite well. Their website says you should order a half size larger than you normally would, I am glad I did order them a have size larger. It looks like their choice is quite limited for sizes, they might be out of production. If you could try them on in a store first, that would be best because their sizing is off a bit. Also, note above my comments on how I modified them.
https://www.keenfootwear.com/p/M-COMMUTER-4.html

But one caution on the Commuter 4 sandals, their insole is thick and reasonably firm foam. If you are concerned about a soft shoe feeling inefficient, these might feel inefficient to you.

Keen has changed their foot last over time, some of their sandals did not fit a wide foot very well, thus I am not commenting on other models.

kingston 

I use Dominators with Specialized Body Geometry SL Footbeds. Regardless of what shoes you use, I recommend the footbeds. I'm planning to get a pair of Dromarti's someday if my Dominators ever wear out.

clasher

I had hotspots the first time I ever rode with a clipless pedal but I can't even remember the brand of the shoe. I rode a few years with the shimano mt34, a bright entry level shoe that held up well for me. I used it on platform pedals at first since it came with a cleat cover installed. I got tired of tying laces though and upgraded to the shimano m163 and have found it to be a great shoe. Holds up well to rain and grime, only got 2 season on 'em but they don't seem worse for wear. I had to go all the way up to a size 49 to get a wide enough fit but the shoes have a lot of fore-aft adjustment for the cleats so I'm pleased with them. They seem a bit stiffer than the mt34 I started with.

Flamme Rouge

Stiff. But consider different footbeds for comfort and (additional) pedaling efficiency.

Machka 

All that said ... it turns out my new Lakes are too narrow.

We rode a very hot 200K on Sunday and I ended up with all kinds of foot pain because the shoes are slightly too narrow and because of the heat on the ride.

When I bought the shoes a few years ago, my feet were still quite narrow, but arthritis has widened them.

pesty

I'll 2nd the Specialized footbeds. I had a pair of Specialized shoes about 10-12 years ago that came with them and have been using them in every pair of shoes since.

Regarding the original topic of how stiff... I've found that I get hot foot, numbness, or general foot fatigue/cramping with flexible soles unless I'm riding at a very leisurely pace with my kids.

I had a nice stiff pair of Giro's with EC70 soles, loved them. Went with a low end pair of Fizik's after that for about a year and had foot pain on every ride over 45-50 miles. Got a pair of Giro's with EC90 soles, did 101 miles my first ride with them and have since picked up another pair so I have stiff carbon for both off road and road shoes.

Tourist in MSN

Would a thinner pair of socks work? I have one pair of shoes that I can only wear if I wear very thin socks. I also have the thinnest insole that I could find in them. My problem is not a wide foot but a bunion.

ptempel

I'm using something similar to your old Puma shoes. The Louis Garneau Milan shoes are lace up with a nylon/plastic sole. They are a little more flexy than the Bont a-three I used to use. But they still work a-ok for me so far.

Careful, you're dating yourself with the wooden sole shoe reference. I tried those once in the 1980's and they killed my feet. So I think that some flex (as small as it is with the current shoes) is not a bad thing. Only good thing about the wood soles was it was easy to nail the plastic cleat on. Do you remember the white Duegi's with the little holes in the leather uppers? Those were one of my favorite shoes and they also had plastic soles.



EDIT: I might be misremembering the wood sole shoes. They might have been Detto Pietro in my case, but the rest applies...

Machka 

Maybe, but although I was wearing 2 pair of socks, they were both quite thin.

The joint where the big toe meets the foot has the arthritis and has bulged out now, and that spot gets very painful when there's pressure on it. Unfortunately the shoes are really narrow ... I think even if I were barefoot there'd be pressure.

antimonysarah

I wear Specialized MTB shoes that had their then-stiffest carbon sole. (They've rearranged the lineup as to which shoes have which sole, and the "stiffness index" of their fanciest sole keeps going up, so I'm not exactly sure how they compare, but they don't bend at all, basically.) I find them fine to walk in; I wouldn't want to do a multi-mile hike-a-bike if I was actually MTBing, but walking the steep part of a hill is A-OK.

I also have Specialized Defrosters for rainy/cold weather, with a less stiff sole, and they're generally OK too. (Specialized's definition of foot-shaped seems to match the shape of my feet best of the major shoemakers. So I stick with theirs. I had a flexier/cheaper pair of their shoes in women's width rather than men's and they did give me hotfoot; whether it was the floppy sole or the narrower shoe IDK; they're now my spin class shoes which is a short enough ride that it doesn't matter.)

I run no-platform SPD pedals; I don't see any reason to have a platform with good stiff shoes.