TMonk

About to head to work on the MTB (~75 min).
Tomorrow will be 2 hrs of some controlled z2 with 1x15' SST up Soledad, 1x 10' z4/5 on Fiesta, and 1x3' at 120%+ up Linda Vista, stoplight permitting. I usually do Fiesta Worlds but don't want to hammer my brains out like I usually do before this weekends race (Ladera GP 2/3), where I'd like to get some points.
Friday off, 3 hrs of civil Z2 on Sat, then race on Sunday.

I have some late season form and I've been performing well at track and the Worlds ride - I wish there was more racing! Most of my buddies (like @wktmeow) have upgraded, and it's been fun supporting them but now I want to join them. It would be great to upgrade before VoS next year but I just don't think there's enough races. Plus if all goes as planned with the gf (marriage and family), next season may be my last at this level of fitness for a while. That's OK, I'll train and race hard and join them as soon as I can.

Hermes

I find my second interval generally stronger than the first. I think it is mental. I feel the first effort and then think, I can do better than that. The problem is that the first interval can generate fatigue so assuming I am warmed up and the ATP PC system primed, I need to generate the results from my "second" interval on my first effort.

ntnyln

Interesting article on warming up. I was thinking about this over the weekend with a 10k TT and settled on a middling time and effort, especially with a 75 mi RR in my legs from the day before. Something so simple shouldn't be so hard.

Training Center: New science on how to warm up | VeloNews.com

aaronmcd

In other news, check out this new article about warming up. Training Center: New science on how to warm up | VeloNews.com

ntnyln

Ha ha! I guess i should read all of the posts while I warm up. Not sure how i missed that.

Radish_legs

B race on zwift killed my legs after a week off.

In other news, I made a video of a group ride a couple of weeks ago.

TexMac

Been on 3rd week of the Zwift 4 week ftp booster and this interval workout sucks it's great 1 hr workout that i plan on repeating. My CTL and fitness on TP is stagnant but i don't feel stuck

furiousferret

Totally botched up my workout, I think from a poor warmup. Are there any good articles out there about warm ups?

Radish_legs

Zwift B race with no warmup was painful. You start off at 600w and continue well above threshold for a good while, as the break is established. Pain!

ntnyln

I heard somewhere that velonews may have done one. Not sure though, you should check their site.

hubcyclist

trying to get back to working on the hard stuff again, today did a workout in trainerroad's sustained power build plan that had 7x5min @ 108% got through 3 of them, could tell on the 4th one that my form was slipping and cut it short and then did an hour at 70%. Figured it's better to just do a few quality intervals than try and struggle through the whole lot. So I'll likely mix in some workouts with only a few quality intervals and make up the rest with endurance and hopefully see a gradual improvement in my pain tolerance.

colombo357

I think it varies significantly from person to person.

I need 10 minutes of easy spin, followed by 5+ minutes @ FTP where my quads stiffen up, followed again by 10 minutes of easy spin. The quad stiffening is key.... without it, I pretty much know I'm going to blow up.

TheKillerPenguin

It depends on how fresh I'm feeling. Generally if I'm super fresh or in a hole I need a longer warm-up. If super fresh, I may plan the week so that I do openers the day before I have a workout involving threshy or vo2. If I'm in a hole and warming up for a workout, i'll spin easy for like 30-40min with a few minute long vo2 type efforts and maybe a 5min snip of tempo. That's like warming up for an ITT in a stage race type of warmup, but it works for me. Really though, it varies, and takes some experimentation.

Legend has it there is a perfect fatigue level, where you can roll out the door and get down to business toot-sweet.

TheKillerPenguin

Also, if I **** up a workout by not warming up correctly, I'll often try to repeat the workout the next day and will smash the **** out of it. The botched workout winds up serving as accidental openers.

Ttoc6

Not anymore. Used to race at marymoor a bit. Now taht I live near SLC, the closest track is in CO springs..

Happy summer everyone! Followed in an old friends footsteps and did a workday century. 16 mi commute in (took a KOM on the way) and the 85 miles after. Super hot which caused some dehydration issues I haven't experienced in a while. Oh, and windy! does wind cause faster dehydration? Cuz my power was way low compared to where it normally feels at a given hr. Maybe I'm tired after the mtb race last night, maybe the ****ty day at work didn't help, or maybe I'm just dehydrated. Or maybe it's all of them.

tetonrider

yes it can. it can trick you into thinking you are a bit cooler than you are, so you don't drink as much until it is too late.

but you also could have been dehydrated from your day.

tetonrider

thanks for posting that.

my general observation is that most people warm up for far too long (esp in the heat), and this seems to increase with the age of the athlete. i see this in myself and others i coach.

i also believe that a non-trivial part of a warm-up is getting into battle mode. having a routine (of which the warm-up is one part) can help change the athlete's mental state and affect there physical performance.

i realize the article focuses on the physical side of things.

i've also seen athletes have an issue (overslept, more traffic than anticipated, mechanical issue that took time, start time switched) that meant they had less time than planned, causing them to freak out and have a bad performance. practicing performing on no/limited warm-up is important, too.

Hermes

I raced masters nats at Marymoor in 2014. The 400 meter track was interesting.

furiousferret

Yeah, I know the feeling. That's probably my biggest achilles heel is getting bumped from the surges. In Zwift Racing you have to put out 5+ w/kg for a minute or so to establish that early break, because if you're not in it you're not going to catch them. Its also the same in Tuesday Night Worlds, the first hill is a 2 minute climb followed by a lull than a 10 minute climb. I just can't push out the watts the lead guys do, so I go into the climb having to try to catch them and blow up. I'm getting better at that though.

The recovery thing was tongue in cheek about the multiple postings of the Velonews article, so I feel like a total ass for getting actual intelligent replies, but I learned some good stuff! Of course since people didn't read those posts they're probably not going to read this one. Sorry guys.

topflightpro

Had this happen to me a few weeks ago. Rain storm came through and threw off the start schedule for the TTs/Pursuits at the track. My warm up and pre-race process got totally thrown off. Did my worst kilo ever.

hubcyclist

it was too nice out and I think it'll probably be rainy this weekend, so went out for a long ride. wanted to go 70-75 miles, but did 61, can't seem to get much past the 3.5hr wall, legs lacked a little life even though my power was comparable to recent similar long rides. 183tss

Ttoc6

It's all I know since it's all i raced. Breaking away is harder on that track because of wind and it being so, so hard to take a lap. Also the bump coming out of corner 4 at about the stayers line can make for some interesting sprints lol. You also learn to dodge goose **** because that's slippery stuff lol.

Zwift racing over the winter was interesting. Nothing like real racing, but yeah, you cannot miss the first surge because that's where the race is. First 5-10 minutes usually suck depending on the course and then you get to settle down into something (usually) below the category limits. I'd say most A races I did ended up riding at about 3.6 w/kg after the inital surge.
I like your comparison of zwift racing to group (race) rides, because that's exactly how they feel. Maybe on your group ride, try sag climbing that first 2 min climb so you're a bit fresher for the 10min climb. That might help?

furiousferret

Ugh, I have knee pain from an Erg Mode session on a trainer. I was doing an interval at 350 watts, and when I couldn't keep my cadence up, I'm suddenly having to hold 350 watts at a 35 cadence. They need to modify the logic, or maybe I need to read the manual. I don't think my knee is severely hurt but bad enough I have to modify my training and probably skip my race tonight (which I've already paid for).

That's the big issue I have with Erg Mode is once you get behind in cadence, it makes the power per pedal stroke harder and eventually its does more harm than good. Its fine for Tempo or less but hard challenging intervals is a no go for me.

I'm not sure if sag climbing = tailgunning but the group is way too big for that.

Ideally, I'd hold the wheel of one of the fast riders, but to stay with the first group over the hill, you have to find those 5 guys amongst 100+ riders and hold their wheel up. Those wheels are contested just before the climb. It's annoy af that weekend warrior Bob who always gets dropped 3 minutes in is bumping my handlebar for a wheel he can't hold for 10 seconds. Don't get me wrong, he's got every right to be there, and I was that guy 2 years ago, I just wish people would 'self seed' in group rides. It would probably prevent half the crashes.

Radish_legs

Rode the local hammerfest yesterday evening.

caloso

1 minute seated repeats.