YMCA

I suppose, but cmon, the way Nibali took the Classics guys out on the cobbled stage. That was genius. Barring Boom.

Ygduf

After that Jack Bauer stage, I was making jokes about sprinters stealing things. Well, this sea lion is totally a sprinter.

botto 

corny moy luvs the doperz.

MDcatV

agree. he hasnt put a wrong foot forward in this TdF, and is clearly the class of the field just as he was when he won the giro last year. great bad weather rider too. honestly, to me, his giro 2013 and TdF this year remind me of performances by "he whose name must not be spoken" circa late 90s early 2000s.

*and to clarify, i'm not suggesting anything untoward.

gsteinb

So are we pretending these guys are clean, or do we just not care anymore?

save10

for me its both i think.

Re: Nibali specifically - i am not presuming him to be dirty. nor am i trolling the internet for evidence to say otherwise.

Creatre

I think Nibali's past is iffy at best. However at least he's not just embarrassing the rest of the field (ala froome). I mean until yesterday he really hadn't left everyone in the dust. Considering he really was probably third favorite for the tour, the big time gap really hasn't been from like overpowering mountain finishes, it's just because his two main rivals on the same level weren't there and he had gained some great time on other non mountain stages. To me, it's a very believable TdF winner, very all around, very impressive overall performance. But who knows really.

thechemist

I agree. Not to mention, the mountain stages have been shorter and I wouldn't say that this tour was as hard as the past tours aside from the climate. Not to mention, Nibali can set a pretty steady pace climbing. He doesn't have to jump on attacks and that can really make a difference.


BTW, those kemo bikes are SICK!! wish they were sold in the USA.

thechemist

The physiology at the front of the Tour - The Science of Sport

MDcatV

just don't care

echappist

he's about 7 minutes ahead, 2 of those from the cobbled stage.

He gained 1 min on everyone yesterday and 50 seconds on the stage that Contador crashed out. Those are significant chunks of time, and this doesn't include the stages where only Peraud stayed with him and everyone else conceded more than a minute. He never lost time to anyone on the mountains. If that's not overpowering, i'm not sure what is

MDcatV

+1.

Creatre, are you sure you're watching the current 2014 tour de france? this is an absolute dominant performance. no one else is remotely close to him.

Creatre

Yeah but it's different. He's been slowing chipping away at it with consistancy. And has really had overall a really good tour where he made no mistakes. He's also had other people generally climbing around the same level as him, other than yesterday. But still yesterday, his time was like 26th best up that climb or something, nothing amazing for recent tour winners. It's different than froome (or contador of old) where there is a pack of 3 or 4 of the best climbers of the world all on the max, and he just rides away from them like they are doing z2. Not to mention if Contador and Froome were still here he'd likely be in second or third, and that 7 minutes would be gone. The 7 minutes to me is not amazing simply because there is no one else that was on his level for this tour because of the two other main favorites crashing out.

Creatre

Great ride today by Garmin. Like seeing those risky impressive performances that pay off!

save10

i think it also speaks to the fact the the french guys we are rooting for and TVG and others are really at this point 2nd tier guys. Had Nairo been in the race, Froomey/Contador not crashed out, the time gaps to Thibot and others would probably be the same if not more and instead of podiums those guys would be fiighting spots 6-7-8.

Creatre

^ Agreed.

rankin116

Plus people stopped racing Nibali a while ago, they're racing each other for the podium spots. No one is going to chase him with the possibility of blowing up and losing their spot on the podium so they're all playing it safe and racing each other. I think that's making Nibali look more dominant but I don't think anyone in the race cares what he's doing now.

ShutUpLegs

Agree with this statement the most and I think it is the reason he has the gap that he does. Pinot was not going to follow Nibali yesterday because of risk of blowing up. I think once he had his 3+ minute lead the others really had given up hope of winning because barring any crash he was on another level. I don't blame them really, for Valverde this was his last shot and going into the tour he knew it would be near impossible for him to hang with Froome, Contador and Nibbles for a top 3. All of a sudden he is second and has a shot. It's been great racing for the podium regardless and I think Nibali is a great all around rider. Would have been interesting to see how he handled the attacks from Froome and Contador.

eja_ bottecchia

Uncle Liggett is finally beginning to grow on me..."lumpy" course indeed!

Now back to arguing about who is the best in this year's Tour.

mattm

garmin was less faily today, good for them.

was as about to suggest they just pack it up and come back to "dominate" the US racing scene.

as for nibali, he had to ride the same courses that crashed out the other favorites - not his fault they had bad luck/couldn't stay upright.

save10

i'm pretty sure they just did that to spite you

grolby

Not sure what's iffy about Nibali's past; he has a history of being strongly opinionated about doping and dopers. Doesn't mean it can't be all a cynical self-defense strategy, but he doesn't have any history of suspicion that I am aware of.

And as already pointed out, I think it's hugely misleading to say that Nibali's "dominant" performance is evidence of doping. He's been the only true elite GC rider in the race since stage 10. No one else has given us reason to think, in the past, they should be at his level now - at least not yet. So between no one else really being in a position to challenge, plus the single biggest chunk of time he gained on the rest being due to skillful riding on the cobbles, plus no one really racing against him in the Pyrenees, since they clearly couldn't do enough to win, you get the result we have.

None of that means that we shouldn't have any skepticism, the post linked to by thechemist is a great summary of where things stand and a good guide to forming opinions about the "believability" of Nibali's performance IMO. But I personally can't go through life just assuming every good performance is due to cheating, and I have no less reason to trust that Nibali is clean than I did Sastre, or Evans, or Wiggins or Froome. Those guys could all have been on the sauce when they won, but I don't have any particular reason to believe that other than that they won. Someone has to win the damn thing, and even a dominant win isn't necessarily evidence of cheating. Nibali SHOULD be dominating this competition.

grolby

Not sure what you have against Garmin, but pulling off wins with smart, strong rides isn't actually out of character for them. They've got at least one stage win at the Tour for four consecutive years, now. At some point, that's not a fluke.

mollusk

I know that YMCA got some **** for comparing Nibali to Hinault. but I agree. He was awesome in every aspect and dominated with winning stages in the pursuit. Now Nibali just has to do it 4 more times to make it officially on the same level.