Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

The latest idiot

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

The latest idiot

Old 10-29-19, 01:53 PM
  #26  
MNebiker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: MN
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
At least he was not on an ebike.
Yeah - those d--m ebikers! That would really have made it bad!
MNebiker is offline  
Old 10-29-19, 06:56 PM
  #27  
mcours2006
Senior Member
 
mcours2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 5,914

Bikes: Giant Rapid, Bianchi Advantage, Specialized Roubaix, 1985 Gardin Quatro, Norco Threshold, Raleigh Serengheti MTB

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1869 Post(s)
Liked 173 Times in 101 Posts
As far as having a carrier on the TT, I've seen this and have even considered it when my kids were little. They are not as versatile as the kid outgrows it after about a year, whereas a rear-mounted set can accommodate the child up to three, and possible four, depending on the size of the child.

Maybe his bike handling skills are immensely more superior to yours and mine. Maybe we should be more appalled that we can't ride with our children on city streets without having to worry about being run over by idiotic and distracted drivers than about the way man chooses to transport his child.
mcours2006 is offline  
Old 10-30-19, 06:34 AM
  #28  
Rajflyboy
Banned.
 
Rajflyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Carolinas
Posts: 1,293

Bikes: Orbea

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 917 Post(s)
Liked 202 Times in 168 Posts
this guy wasn't Peter Sagan

no chair on top rail

just stupidity

Put a damn helmet on the girl.
Rajflyboy is offline  
Old 10-30-19, 06:39 AM
  #29  
pickettt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 411

Bikes: DiamondBack Podium 7, Focus Raven 1.0, Ritchey BreakAway Cross, (2) Trek 8500, Paramount PDG 90, Trek T2000, Redline Flight Pro 24

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked 55 Times in 32 Posts
Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
Of course I would have called the police. In many places police are over-burdened but I don't think that's a reason not to report a crime.
What about obese kids? Do you call? Oh, I digress.
pickettt is offline  
Old 10-30-19, 09:21 AM
  #30  
MNHarv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sartell, MN
Posts: 253

Bikes: Trek Millennia, Trek 400, Raleigh Superbe, Giant OCR3, Bianchi Milano

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 18 Posts
When the guy who was riding with the kid up front tells you to bleep off, the reason for that is, you apparently need to be reminded you don't always get your way.

Let it go. Maybe try a different route. All of us feel the way you have about that guy and the kid, with different things in our lives.
MNHarv is offline  
Old 10-30-19, 10:19 AM
  #31  
GamblerGORD53
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Elevation 666m Edmonton Canada
Posts: 1,475

Bikes: 2013 Custom SA5w / Rohloff Tourster

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 703 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 27 Posts
In Chengdu I saw a 4 year old girl standing on the back carrier.
GamblerGORD53 is offline  
Old 10-30-19, 10:47 AM
  #32  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,122
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1836 Post(s)
Liked 334 Times in 241 Posts
Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
In Chengdu I saw a 4 year old girl standing on the back carrier.
In Amsterdam I saw....



-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 10-30-19, 11:48 AM
  #33  
NomarsGirl
Senior Member
 
NomarsGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Easton, MA
Posts: 523

Bikes: Specialized Ruby Sport

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 258 Post(s)
Liked 178 Times in 108 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post

(Helpful definitions from George Carlin - IDIOTS ride slower than you ride. MANIACS ride faster than you ride.)

-mr. bill
Oooh. That hit a little close to home. I encountered both over the weekend. It was the idiots who were responsible for my injury though.
NomarsGirl is offline  
Old 10-30-19, 01:48 PM
  #34  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 7,173

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3712 Post(s)
Liked 2,493 Times in 1,428 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
In Amsterdam I saw....



-mr. bill
Any idea how fast?

I wonder how hard it is to control a turn. Probably couldn't experiment with this here without attracting attention from child protection.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 10-30-19, 02:26 PM
  #35  
StanSeven
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Delaware shore
Posts: 13,304

Bikes: Cervelo C5, Guru Photon, Waterford, Specialized CX

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 733 Post(s)
Liked 255 Times in 205 Posts
This thread belongs in Advocacy and Safety. Moving it there.
StanSeven is offline  
Old 10-30-19, 03:51 PM
  #36  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,122
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1836 Post(s)
Liked 334 Times in 241 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Any idea how fast?

I wonder how hard it is to control a turn. Probably couldn't experiment with this here without attracting attention from child protection.
Apparently too fast?

Look, I’ve had “serious cyclists” lecture me that a rear child carrier unbalances a bike, and I’ve had “serious cyclists” lecture me that backpacks are unwise because center of gravity.

Not to mention a quarter century ago there were no bike lanes anywhere on Mass Ave, neither so-called “DZBL” or even the more dreaded by the take the lane crowd protected bike lanes.

My child and I did not die.

But nobody called 911 back then either.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 10-30-19 at 04:01 PM.
mr_bill is offline  
Old 10-30-19, 05:08 PM
  #37  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,377
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1560 Post(s)
Liked 168 Times in 132 Posts
Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
Someone hurting themselves I don't have much of a problem with. Hurting an innocent child, that's a different matter.
Did the o.p. report an accident (crash) involving a child? Oh the children! Capsizing life raft, throw us the children, sucks to be you! Burning building, throw us the children, we'll throw you marshmallows. What happens to the orphaned children? I don't know, seems to me that the day before the o.p. saw that cyclist and probably the day before that, and, and ... see where I'm going? What looks like reckless ... I wonder if I would think it's reckless. Some of you need to learn the difference between being a noob and having skillz. Some of the things I do with a tandem in traffic with my DW on the back are worthy of applause. If I tried the exact same thing with a child back there people would want to drag me off the bike and beat me. Doesn't make sense. An adults life is worth exactly what a child's life is worth. No more, no less. Let's get a grip.
TL;DR - All Lives Matter

Last edited by Leisesturm; 10-30-19 at 05:19 PM.
Leisesturm is offline  
Old 10-30-19, 08:27 PM
  #38  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 7,173

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3712 Post(s)
Liked 2,493 Times in 1,428 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Apparently too fast?

Look, I’ve had “serious cyclists” lecture me that a rear child carrier unbalances a bike, and I’ve had “serious cyclists” lecture me that backpacks are unwise because center of gravity.

Not to mention a quarter century ago there were no bike lanes anywhere on Mass Ave, neither so-called “DZBL” or even the more dreaded by the take the lane crowd protected bike lanes.

My child and I did not die.

But nobody called 911 back then either.

-mr. bill
Slow down there, Scooter, I'm not looking for a fight. I was just curious how fast a person can ride with one kid standing and another in the seat. I've never seen anyone ride like that and am curious. I'm not arguing they shouldn't nor did I imply "too fast", just noting that there's no way they could do that in the US, so I can't get a chance to observe it or know how the balance feels.

I did my kid seat riding in the '90s and early 2000s, and found that it did change the balance of the bike, but it took all of about 5 minutes to get used to it. I've ridden with another person on my seat, pony ridden a second bike down the streets of New Orleans, stood on the seat (many years ago), ridden with my baby on the back down the El Camino Real in the Bay Area and in San Francisco, but I have never ridden with someone else standing on my bike. Obviously, they can turn or they wouldn't be doing it, but I imagine it requires a bit of skill. You said you saw them, I was curious if you had seen them turn. Does the standing kid have to do anything?
livedarklions is offline  
Old 10-30-19, 08:39 PM
  #39  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 7,173

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3712 Post(s)
Liked 2,493 Times in 1,428 Posts
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Did the o.p. report an accident (crash) involving a child? Oh the children! Capsizing life raft, throw us the children, sucks to be you! Burning building, throw us the children, we'll throw you marshmallows. What happens to the orphaned children? I don't know, seems to me that the day before the o.p. saw that cyclist and probably the day before that, and, and ... see where I'm going? What looks like reckless ... I wonder if I would think it's reckless. Some of you need to learn the difference between being a noob and having skillz. Some of the things I do with a tandem in traffic with my DW on the back are worthy of applause. If I tried the exact same thing with a child back there people would want to drag me off the bike and beat me. Doesn't make sense. An adults life is worth exactly what a child's life is worth. No more, no less. Let's get a grip.
TL;DR - All Lives Matter
Not sure which is worse, the horrible prose style or missing the obvious point that an adult on the back of the bike can choose whether or not to be there while the small child cannot, so yeah I think you owe the kid some extra modicum of care when you choose for them.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 10-31-19, 07:19 AM
  #40  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,122
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1836 Post(s)
Liked 334 Times in 241 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Slow down there, Scooter, I'm not looking for a fight. I was just curious how fast a person can ride with one kid standing and another in the seat. I've never seen anyone ride like that and am curious. I'm not arguing they shouldn't nor did I imply "too fast", just noting that there's no way they could do that in the US, so I can't get a chance to observe it or know how the balance feels.

I did my kid seat riding in the '90s and early 2000s, and found that it did change the balance of the bike, but it took all of about 5 minutes to get used to it. I've ridden with another person on my seat, pony ridden a second bike down the streets of New Orleans, stood on the seat (many years ago), ridden with my baby on the back down the El Camino Real in the Bay Area and in San Francisco, but I have never ridden with someone else standing on my bike. Obviously, they can turn or they wouldn't be doing it, but I imagine it requires a bit of skill. You said you saw them, I was curious if you had seen them turn. Does the standing kid have to do anything?
When *I* was a kid I did that with a friend on the back of a bike. In the US. It took all of a few minutes to get used to it. Yes, they did not go off into the horizon in a straight line, they turned. The standing kid has to - stand. When she gets a bit older she'll have to DUCK under some of the bridges.

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Not sure which is worse, the horrible prose style or missing the obvious point that an adult on the back of the bike can choose whether or not to be there while the small child cannot, so yeah I think you owe the kid some extra modicum of care when you choose for them.
Is it really that long ago that you've forgotten? The first time I took my child on the bike they were no more puzzled about it that the most recent time I took my child in my car. It's a seat, you belt them in. The first time I put a helmet on my child they were no more hesitant than the most recent time I put a hat on their head.

But once we rolled out they were clearly so terrified that within twenty minutes - they - were - soundly - asleep.

After the first time, they would flash the universal toddler "up" sign while saying "bike!"

The biggest change when we moved to a trailer bike was that they couldn't sleep anymore. Once they started to "pull" their own weight we had to learn how to be a captain and stoker.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 10-31-19 at 09:39 AM. Reason: tupo
mr_bill is offline  
Likes For mr_bill:
Old 10-31-19, 07:30 AM
  #41  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,122
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1836 Post(s)
Liked 334 Times in 241 Posts
BTW, Think Biking with Kids Is Reckless? You're Brainwashed. [NSFW warning, Bikesnob uses bad words, banned words, which rhymes with MA HOLES, one of which is in the URL so I have to link to page 5, look for the article there and click on the link.]


And why we all are "weaving in and out of the car traffic" - all images by Bikeyface, *ALL* blocks away from Berklee.




Children of Boston on Bikes - all images by Bikeyface, most blocks away from Berklee. (Love love love the hand signal lower left!)



-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 10-31-19 at 07:34 AM.
mr_bill is offline  
Old 10-31-19, 07:50 AM
  #42  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 7,173

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3712 Post(s)
Liked 2,493 Times in 1,428 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post

Is it really that long ago that you've forgotten? The first time I took my child on the bike they were no more puzzled about it that the most recent time I took my child in my car. It's a seat, you belt them in. The first time I put a helmet on my child they were no more hesitant than the most recent time I put a hat on their head. But once we rolled out they were clearly so terrified that within twenty minutes - they - were - soundly - asleep.

After the first time, they would flash the universal toddler "up" sign while saying "bike!"

The biggest change when we moved to a trailer bike is that they couldn't sleep anymore. Once they started to "pull" their own weight we had to learn how to be a captain and stoker.

-mr. bill
Do you always have to deliberately miss the point to make yourself seem like the smartest guy in the room? When an adult agrees to get on a bike piloted by you, he/she understands the risk they're taking on your level of ability and are assuming that risk. Are you really claiming that when a toddler gives you a thumbs up or falls asleep, they are knowingly assuming the risk? The other really obvious point is that if you do suddenly start riding like a total jerk, the adult has the ability to "abandon ship". The kid does not and probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway.

It's admittedly been a very long time since my kids were small, but my memory is that I rode a bit more conservatively with them on the bike and in the trailer, in part because the vehicle plus child is slightly less maneuverable, but also because I felt it was necessary to be as risk-avoidant as I could practically be with my child. My usual breakneck pace was not something I was willing to do with them on board. My tandem-riding experience is almost non-existent, but I imagine I'd be comfortable taking a few more chances if the other adult said he/she was ok with it.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 10-31-19, 08:08 AM
  #43  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 7,173

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3712 Post(s)
Liked 2,493 Times in 1,428 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
BTW, Think Biking with Kids Is Reckless? You're Brainwashed. [NSFW warning, Bikesnob uses bad words, banned words, which rhymes with MA HOLES, one of which is in the URL so I have to link to page 5, look for the article there and click on the link.]


And why we all are "weaving in and out of the car traffic" - all images by Bikeyface, *ALL* blocks away from Berklee.




Children of Boston on Bikes - all images by Bikeyface, most blocks away from Berklee. (Love love love the hand signal lower left!)



-mr. bill

Just reread OP--if your point is that he's probably overstating the risks this rider was taking on Mass Ave., I'd have to agree. I've ridden it several times, and my impression is that it's a relatively safe road of that level of traffic to take the lane and ride fast. It's generally straight, good sight lines, and some pretty good bike lanes. I'm not crazy about the bike lane/bus stop arrangements, but I've definitely ridden much worse with kid or otherwise.

Riding with kids is not reckless, but it is possible to ride recklessly with a kid. I've never seen it, and I doubt OP really has, either.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 10-31-19, 08:10 AM
  #44  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,122
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1836 Post(s)
Liked 334 Times in 241 Posts
Originally Posted by dkatz1 View Post
...weaving in and out of the car traffic...
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
...high speed swerving.

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
When an adult agrees to get on a bike piloted by you, he/she understands the risk they're taking on your level of ability and are assuming that risk. Are you really claiming that when a toddler gives you a thumbs up or falls asleep, they are knowingly assuming the risk?
When an adult agrees to get into a car driven by you, they understand the risk they're taking. Are you really claiming that when a toddler gives you a thumbs up or falls asleep, they are knowingly assuming the risk of riding in a car?

Other than the OPs rant, where surprise, everyone else is an idiot (or maniac), *you've* never seen anyone RIDING LIKE TOTAL JERKS with children on their bikes.

I haven't either.

But I have seen adults DRIVING LIKE TOTAL JERKS with children in their car however. I'm sure you have seen that too.

Like Eben says, we are brainwashed and sometimes don't even realize how deep our biases go.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 10-31-19 at 08:18 AM. Reason: Reply collision
mr_bill is offline  
Old 10-31-19, 08:13 AM
  #45  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 7,173

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3712 Post(s)
Liked 2,493 Times in 1,428 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
When an adult agrees to get into a car driven by you, they understand the risk they're taking. Are you really claiming that when a toddler gives you a thumbs up or falls asleep, they are knowingly assuming the risk of riding in a car?

Other than the OPs rant, where surprise, everyone else is an idiot (or maniac), have YOU ever seen these adults riding like total jerks with a child in tow? EVER?

I have seen adults DRIVING LIKE TOTAL JERKS with children in their car however.

Like Eben says, brainwashed.

-mr. bill
Where did I say it was ok to drive aggressively with my toddler in the car? I actually didn't have a drivers license when the kids were that age, so it just wasn't an issue for me, but I don't think my calculations would have been any different.

Seriously, knock off the straw man crap. We're not even arguing.

Ironically, we have posts that crossed that pretty much say the same thing about OP.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 10-31-19, 09:11 AM
  #46  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,377
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1560 Post(s)
Liked 168 Times in 132 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Where did I say it was ok to drive aggressively with my toddler in the car? I actually didn't have a drivers license when the kids were that age ...
The other poster did NOT in anyway impugn your intelligence. Why are you invalidating theirs? This kind of hyper-literal argument style is very infuriating. Sadly, it is all too prevalent these days ...
Leisesturm is offline  
Old 10-31-19, 09:23 AM
  #47  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 7,173

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3712 Post(s)
Liked 2,493 Times in 1,428 Posts
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
The other poster did NOT in anyway impugn your intelligence. Why are you invalidating theirs? This kind of hyper-literal argument style is very infuriating. Sadly, it is all too prevalent these days ...
What the?!?!

He paralleled my language word for word, but substituted the word "car", then used this as an example of being "brainwashed". So, yes, he did impugn my thought processes, if not my intelligence, by attributing to me an argument I most decidedly DID NOT make. Nowhere did I imply that people should feel free to drive like idiots with their kids in the car.

Please show anywhere in the language of mine that you quoted where I impugned his intelligence. You too are putting words in my mouth I never said. I don't have to be "hyper-literal" to find that extremely annoying and requiring of answer.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 10-31-19, 09:43 AM
  #48  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 7,173

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3712 Post(s)
Liked 2,493 Times in 1,428 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post

Other than the OPs rant, where surprise, everyone else is an idiot (or maniac), *you've* never seen anyone RIDING LIKE TOTAL JERKS with children on their bikes.


-mr. bill

When you picked this little argument with me or whatever it's supposed to be, you quoted me for the proposition that because I am making the choice for the child to be on the back of my bike, I do feel a responsibility to take fewer risks than I would with an adult. The fact that I've seen plenty of people ride their bikes like total jerks, I've seen plenty of riders carrying children, but I've never seen anyone riding their bike with a child like a total jerk would indicate to me that I'm not alone in this sentiment. Now I really have never seen anyone ride a tandem bike like a total jerk, but that may or may not be because I really don't see that many tandem bikes in the wild.

Was I wrong to think I should be a little more cautious riding with my sons than I would by myself? They both weigh considerably more than I do at this point and prefer pedaling their own bikes, so it's a bit late to correct the error.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 10-31-19, 09:55 AM
  #49  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,377
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1560 Post(s)
Liked 168 Times in 132 Posts
Among the top reasons for being unable to commit to a car free, or even car light, lifestyle is the presence of young children in the family and thus the need to transport them to school, appointments, sports activities, etc. in safety. Being single and dating (as a male) would be next in frequency. The need to arrive at a Service Sector workplace sweat free and presentable is also in the top five. These attitudes are only prevalent in America. Despite the existence of isolated clusters of bicycle centric inhabitants of niche cities like Portland, OR; Davis; CA; NYC; and (apparently) Boston, MA, the overwhelming majority of Americans are mistrustful of the safety of bicycles as transportation. Many would rather use mass transit if for whatever catastrophic reason they cannot (legally or otherwise) operate a car. I know personally an individual who sank into a depression so deep after losing their license that they lost their marriage and employment in just weeks and had to move in with an adult child in another state. The loss of operator status would have been only temporary.

Lets all admit it, we all 'clench' a little when we see a child on the back of an Xtracycle being piloted by a Millenial in busy Downtown traffic. And trailers? Really? The observation that trailers are only marginally safer than bike seats because of their minimalist construction is spot on. I do observe, however, that by more or less universal adoption, adults transporting children on public roadways, be it by Bakfiets, Xtracyle, Long-bike or standard bicycle with child seat, all are under a symbolic white flag of amnesty from motorist aggression, menace or other emotional or bodily harm. Someone should pull the data on child passenger injury and/or death metrics on American roads vs single adult rider metrics. Maybe the way to get American cyclist metrics more in line with the rest of the developed world is for all of us to have children along on our rides. Fun and fresh air for the young ones and freedom from anger and harrasment from cagers for the old(er) ones. Talk about a win-win.

I think 'reckless' needs to be defined more precisely. Someone speeding through a fresh red signal with a bike trailer in tow (something I've never seen btw) would be universally condemned as egregiously reckless. But were they? Did they make it? That would be my question. Assuming sufficient momentum coming towards the stale yellow signal, an attempt to stop dead with a loaded trailer might put the rig into the intersection anyway. We could (and would) argue about why they were going that fast in the first place but the bottom line is if they know the intersection and its behavior from long experience then they are making a calculated risk analysis, the success of which proved its positive cost/benefit outcome. We all do this. What we don't do is give the same benefit of the doubt to others. Why is that? TBH, this being America and the year being 2019 and all that that entails ... yah, I'd like to know more about the reckless idiot the o.p. observed being ... reckless. On its face, there doesn't seem to be much to see here.
Leisesturm is offline  
Likes For Leisesturm:
Old 10-31-19, 10:15 AM
  #50  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 7,173

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3712 Post(s)
Liked 2,493 Times in 1,428 Posts
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Among the top reasons for being unable to commit to a car free, or even car light, lifestyle is the presence of young children in the family and thus the need to transport them to school, appointments, sports activities, etc. in safety. Being single and dating (as a male) would be next in frequency. The need to arrive at a Service Sector workplace sweat free and presentable is also in the top five. These attitudes are only prevalent in America. Despite the existence of isolated clusters of bicycle centric inhabitants of niche cities like Portland, OR; Davis; CA; NYC; and (apparently) Boston, MA, the overwhelming majority of Americans are mistrustful of the safety of bicycles as transportation. Many would rather use mass transit if for whatever catastrophic reason they cannot (legally or otherwise) operate a car. I know personally an individual who sank into a depression so deep after losing their license that they lost their marriage and employment in just weeks and had to move in with an adult child in another state. The loss of operator status would have been only temporary.

Lets all admit it, we all 'clench' a little when we see a child on the back of an Xtracycle being piloted by a Millenial in busy Downtown traffic. And trailers? Really? The observation that trailers are only marginally safer than bike seats because of their minimalist construction is spot on. I do observe, however, that by more or less universal adoption, adults transporting children on public roadways, be it by Bakfiets, Xtracyle, Long-bike or standard bicycle with child seat, all are under a symbolic white flag of amnesty from motorist aggression, menace or other emotional or bodily harm. Someone should pull the data on child passenger injury and/or death metrics on American roads vs single adult rider metrics. Maybe the way to get American cyclist metrics more in line with the rest of the developed world is for all of us to have children along on our rides. Fun and fresh air for the young ones and freedom from anger and harrasment from cagers for the old(er) ones. Talk about a win-win.

I think 'reckless' needs to be defined more precisely. Someone speeding through a fresh red signal with a bike trailer in tow (something I've never seen btw) would be universally condemned as egregiously reckless. But were they? Did they make it? That would be my question. Assuming sufficient momentum coming towards the stale yellow signal, an attempt to stop dead with a loaded trailer might put the rig into the intersection anyway. We could (and would) argue about why they were going that fast in the first place but the bottom line is if they know the intersection and its behavior from long experience then they are making a calculated risk analysis, the success of which proved its positive cost/benefit outcome. We all do this. What we don't do is give the same benefit of the doubt to others. Why is that? TBH, this being America and the year being 2019 and all that that entails ... yah, I'd like to know more about the reckless idiot the o.p. observed being ... reckless. On its face, there doesn't seem to be much to see here.
I'm pretty sure my liking one of your posts is a sign of the apocalypse, but that was good enough to risk it.

Just as an aside, I'm sure the designs of trailers is now better than they were when my kids were small, but riding with the one I had basically made it impractical to go so fast that the brake-slam scenario was likely. The maneuvers that I think people would most likely argue about would be strategies involving turn lanes, where people don't realize that well-signalled lane shifting is by far the safest way to proceed, especially since trailers are so vulnerable to blind spot issues.
livedarklions is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.