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How Much Damage Does Canyon Do To LBS's?

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How Much Damage Does Canyon Do To LBS's?

Old 04-09-20, 07:49 PM
  #26  
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I just bought two MTBs from Canyon. Both bikes came well packaged and were easy to assemble. The prices were unbeatable when compared to Trek, IBIS, or any other major US brands. I have no complaints and will buy from them again. Their customer service is really great as well.
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Old 04-09-20, 07:50 PM
  #27  
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Hambini certainly loves them.

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Old 04-09-20, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
I see Velofix and its competitors as much bigger risks to the LBS.
The Velofix guy here is a better wrench than most of the LBS guys around here
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Old 04-09-20, 08:34 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Ross520 View Post
Shimano is still Shimano, and SRAM is SRAM, regardless of who manufactures the bicycle. Maintenance doesn’t change, at all. For example, I repair my Cannondale with the same tools and methods that I use on my Fuji.

Now to address the rest of your post, I don’t understand why you are so loyal to your LBS. Since when did it become the job of the consumer to keep businesses profitable? That entire premise is absurd. If you want my business, you must earn it. I’m not going to spend significantly more of my hard earned money to “help out” a business. Now don’t get me wrong, I have bought PLENTY of items from my local bike shops. Some were a little more expensive, but not egregiously so, and it feels good to support the local economy. However, if one chooses to purchase online, they have EVERY right to, and you have absolutely zero business trying to convince them otherwise.
Wow. Thanks very much for telling me what it's all about. Good to know.

You and I have very different views and beliefs about community businesses. I make it a point to support all kinds of businesses that are more expensive than amazon or Walmart. Tons of them. All for different, specific reasons. Some do a better job of "earning" my business than others, but I believe the market is best served by abundant competition, generally speaking. So, I go out of my way to patronize all sorts of companies and their products, some, probably more deserving than others.

I have washed dishes, flipped burgers, transplanted hearts, and steered a public US company from almost the tippy top position. Businesses on this planet generally succeed for one or both of two reasons in my experience: 1) They have an attractive value proposition; and 2) The take care of their customers. Canyon obviously has "1" going for it. It's the "2" part I worry about. Not for them. For their customers. But what do I know...
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Old 04-09-20, 09:16 PM
  #30  
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My canyon ultimate arrived set up and adjusted better than the specialized and Cannondale road bikes I bought previously

That being said, lbs is likely not making that much money selling quality road bikes anyways, the volume is low. The real money makers are the cheap bikes that are much easier to sell to a regular casual person, and canyon doesn't compete in that space
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Old 04-09-20, 09:19 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
Wow. Thanks very much for telling me what it's all about. Good to know.

You and I have very different views and beliefs about community businesses. I make it a point to support all kinds of businesses that are more expensive than amazon or Walmart. Tons of them. All for different, specific reasons. Some do a better job of "earning" my business than others, but I believe the market is best served by abundant competition, generally speaking. So, I go out of my way to patronize all sorts of companies and their products, some, probably more deserving than others.

I have washed dishes, flipped burgers, transplanted hearts, and steered a public US company from almost the tippy top position. Businesses on this planet generally succeed for one or both of two reasons in my experience: 1) They have an attractive value proposition; and 2) The take care of their customers. Canyon obviously has "1" going for it. It's the "2" part I worry about. Not for them. For their customers. But what do I know...
Except when Canyon does it, apparently. The “generally speaking” is a roundabout way of saying “competition is only good when I deem it appropriate”. Sounds like you are letting personal feelings and ego cloud your judgement.

In response to your second paragraph, I’m not really sure what that has to do with this discussion.You start with an unsolicited career resume, and end with concerns regarding Canyon’s customer service, none of which is relevant to this conversation, considering the fact that the original post, no questioned were raised about customer satisfaction.

I would suggest re-reading your first post, the one were you make your bias against the company so clear a blind man could see it with inflammatory statements such as “...completely over-the-top and endless fandom for Canyon”.

So, what did you hope to accomplish by starting this thread anyways? You obviously hold a good deal of contempt for the company, and based-off your response to me, you have no intentions of changing your way of thinking. You even admit to overpaying on products to “support” businesses that by your own admission don’t do the “best” job of earning your business.

If you want to bash online companies for the mere fact that they provide competition ( which is apparently only good when YOU say it is) and treat undeserving businesses like charities, that’s your prerogative, but don’t act surprised that most people aren’t following suit.
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Old 04-09-20, 09:24 PM
  #32  
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Canyon doesn't seem to do much damage around me. I see 4000 trek, giant, and specialized bikes for every 1 Canyon bike.

I considered buying a Canyon Grail aluminum gravel bike for a few months, about a year or so ago. I could get past the toothpaste welds since the price was great, but the bike(every size) was out of stock for months. No predicted in stock date either.


Tough to take market share when there is no product to sell.
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Old 04-09-20, 10:40 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Ross520 View Post
Except when Canyon does it, apparently. The “generally speaking” is a roundabout way of saying “competition is only good when I deem it appropriate”. Sounds like you are letting personal feelings and ego cloud your judgement.

In response to your second paragraph, I’m not really sure what that has to do with this discussion.You start with an unsolicited career resume, and end with concerns regarding Canyon’s customer service, none of which is relevant to this conversation, considering the fact that the original post, no questioned were raised about customer satisfaction.

I would suggest re-reading your first post, the one were you make your bias against the company so clear a blind man could see it with inflammatory statements such as “...completely over-the-top and endless fandom for Canyon”.

So, what did you hope to accomplish by starting this thread anyways? You obviously hold a good deal of contempt for the company, and based-off your response to me, you have no intentions of changing your way of thinking. You even admit to overpaying on products to “support” businesses that by your own admission don’t do the “best” job of earning your business.

If you want to bash online companies for the mere fact that they provide competition ( which is apparently only good when YOU say it is) and treat undeserving businesses like charities, that’s your prerogative, but don’t act surprised that most people aren’t following suit.
I have always found it helpful and compelling when other human beings inform me what my feelings, thoughts, beliefs, and experiences are and have been--and also what the relative value of all those is. Always best to have others provide us with our own views.

As for Canyon and the post, I think your exquisite and thermonuclear hypersensitivity about the topic really says everything. Thank you for making my point for me. That's always the best way. And yet, I totally support your fondness for them or their business model, I do, irrespective of from whence it comes. Canyon employee? Dunno. But if so, that's great, too. Saving people cash is awesome. As I say, I have actually bought a bike online. A spendy one. Saved some money, for sure. I actually have some experience here. But I only did it once. Jut had a few concerns about follow-up and support and so forth. Was a tad uncomfortable about doing that again. So, I didn't. Haven't. But that's my thing and certainly not everyone must agree with me--on anything. Ever.

I have zero contempt for Canyon. I don't have enough information to have contempt for them. But everyone who owns one seems to love it. They are cool-looking. All the cool people seem top have one. My contempt, which is not even remotely the right word (it is your word, but I won't bother to share the correct one with you, as you will simply use it to denigrate me and put me on blast and attempt to publicly humiliate and shame me--yet again, since that is what you do) is my concern that some unsophisticated buyers, sometimes first-time buyers, sometimes others, may end up with a bike that does not really fit or work for them, for their needs, for their specific uses--and not even know that, because, once you unbox an online-purchased bike, you are kind of on your own. I know--I did it!!!. With and from a very respected retailer. They were great. But they weren't in my apartment with me. Were not in my town. Or state.

Anyhow, to me, the situation where someone does end up with the wrong bike after dropping 2500 bucks or whatever and then, has to ship the whole thing back to Germany is just not a very good transaction--for the customer, in my opinion. It's great for Canyon, short-term. Not so great for the gal that needed a 50 endurance ride but ended up with a 52-gravel bike--or whatever. Or fill-in-the-blank. Now, maybe Canyon is such an awesome company that his never happens. Could be. I don't know. Part of why I posted the thread, not to trash them. To pose the question--just what effect is all this exuberant interest in this company having overall, if any? I certainly don't know, quite obviously.

Had I wished to trash the company, you would know. It would have been flagrant and overwhelming and in-everyone's-face.

Lastly, should you in the future choose to go on message boards and venomously lecture experienced international business people about international business issues, expect a response and, more likely than not, some context to be provided in concert with that response. Context allows the reader to better understand where someone is coming from. What their prior experiences, expertise, knowledge base, fund of knowledge, if any, may be being brought to bear on any current or prior discussion. The fact that again you interpreted this in the most negative possible light is in keeping with virtually the entirety off all your prior posts.
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Old 04-09-20, 10:49 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
I don't own a Canyon but all the Canyon owners I know still take their bikes to the LBS for chain cleanings & derailleur adjustments.

People who buy Ferrari's still have someone else change their oil.

My point is: The service department will always have customers.

As the owner of some pretty fancy bikes, I welcome Canyon's downward pressure on the ridiculous sale price carbon commands. Look at the discount section. I'm also not worried about shops potentially losing a one time high ticket sale. The margin on that really isn't what keeps shops open in the first place.

It may sound weird, but selling bikes isn't the business bike shops are in. They happen to sell bikes so they can sell bike service, bike accessories & bike related paraphanelia.

Aaron (Who is sitting outside Universal Cycles in Portland, Oregon as he type this.)
Ah, another Portlandism in our midst?
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Old 04-09-20, 10:54 PM
  #35  
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Yeah, I reckon that riposte landed
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Old 04-09-20, 11:02 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by BCDrums View Post
Never heard of Canyon Bikes until this thread. Must be behind the curve. Or maybe Canyon is really a tiny part of the bike world.
if you ride in a heavy bike area you see quite a few lately will see at least 20 or more on a sat or Sunday ride. But as others have noted they seem really well priced and a great value for what you get. Paid over 5000 for my BMC and for maybe 3000 could of had the same bike with a canyon . But at the bike shop it’s nice to be fitted to the bike and have lifetime adjustments as long as you own the bike worth the extra money probably not. But peace of mine when it does act up
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Old 04-09-20, 11:04 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
I have always found it helpful and compelling when other human beings inform me what my feelings, thoughts, beliefs, and experiences are and have been--and also what the relative value of all those is. Always best to have others provide us with our own views.

As for Canyon and the post, I think your exquisite and thermonuclear hypersensitivity about the topic really says everything. Thank you for making my point for me. That's always the best way. And yet, I totally support your fondness for them or their business model, I do, irrespective of from whence it comes. Canyon employee? Dunno. But if so, that's great, too. Saving people cash is awesome. As I say, I have actually bought a bike online. A spendy one. Saved some money, for sure. I actually have some experience here. But I only did it once. Jut had a few concerns about follow-up and support and so forth. Was a tad uncomfortable about doing that again. So, I didn't. Haven't. But that's my thing and certainly not everyone must agree with me--on anything. Ever.

I have zero contempt for Canyon. I don't have enough information to have contempt for them. But everyone who owns one seems to love it. They are cool-looking. All the cool people seem top have one. My contempt, which is not even remotely the right word (it is your word, but I won't bother to share the correct one with you, as you will simply use it to denigrate me and put me on blast and attempt to publicly humiliate and shame me--yet again, since that is what you do) is my concern that some unsophisticated buyers, sometimes first-time buyers, sometimes others, may end up with a bike that does not really fit or work for them, for their needs, for their specific uses--and not even know that, because, once you unbox an online-purchased bike, you are kind of on your own. I know--I did it!!!. With and from a very respected retailer. They were great. But they weren't in my apartment with me. Were not in my town. Or state.

Anyhow, to me, the situation where someone does end up with the wrong bike after dropping 2500 bucks or whatever and then, has to ship the whole thing back to Germany is just not a very good transaction--for the customer, in my opinion. It's great for Canyon, short-term. Not so great for the gal that needed a 50 endurance ride but ended up with a 52-gravel bike--or whatever. Or fill-in-the-blank. Now, maybe Canyon is such an awesome company that his never happens. Could be. I don't know. Part of why I posted the thread, not to trash them. To pose the question--just what effect is all this exuberant interest in this company having overall, if any? I certainly don't know, quite obviously.

Had I wished to trash the company, you would know. It would have been flagrant and overwhelming and in-everyone's-face.

Lastly, should you in the future choose to go on message boards and venomously lecture experienced international business people about international business issues, expect a response and, more likely than not, some context to be provided in concert with that response. Context allows the reader to better understand where someone is coming from. What their prior experiences, expertise, knowledge base, fund of knowledge, if any, may be being brought to bear on any current or prior discussion. The fact that again you interpreted this in the most negative possible light is in keeping with virtually the entirety off all your prior posts.
That’s all quite rich considering the tone of your first post...

Gaslighting is far less effective over text.
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Old 04-09-20, 11:16 PM
  #38  
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A lot of ignorance in this thread. Canyon US is in California, it's not like you have to deal with the mothership in Deustchland. They have some offerings that are differentiated enough that it's not just lowballing prices causing pressure on the more established competitors. And they do sponsor pros, ever heard of Mathieu van der Poel or Movistar? Not to mention Canyon-SRAM, could've guessed from the name!

That said, I have one bike from Canyon, two from my LBSes, a few more bought online, and I wouldn't say any buying experiences were perfect or be the sole avenue I'd recommend. One of those two LBSes is fantastic -- when I get the owner is involved -- but it's a single brand shop and doesn't carry everything I want. The other LBS gave me zero reason to ever shop there again. My online purchases require more effort on my own, maintenance-wise, but I've learned a lot in a short time and feel comfortable with that. For the shopper who doesn't need an LBS to do everything Canyon is a good option; their appeal in the US market is more to those who know what they want.
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Old 04-09-20, 11:20 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Ah, another Portlandism in our midst?
I live about 3 hours North.
I just popped down for a box of donuts from Voodoo Too, a stop at Ham Radio Outlet in Tigard, and some cantilever post'd brake pad holders that take standard Kool-Stop "Dura" pad inserts.

Such an easy drive on a mostly empty highway, why not pay y'all a visit?

I was not successful in all of my errands but I got in a 25 mile ride on the new cantilever pad holders with Reynolds pads and an old carbon wheelset that's been hanging in my garage.

A good day indeed. Portland is great, and Universal Cycles really knows what business they're in.

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Old 04-10-20, 12:30 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Ross520 View Post
That’s all quite rich considering the tone of your first post...

Gaslighting is far less effective over text.
You quite clearly have no idea what gaslighting actually is, which is very hard to do in today's America...
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Old 04-10-20, 12:32 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by surak View Post
A lot of ignorance in this thread. Canyon US is in California, it's not like you have to deal with the mothership in Deustchland. They have some offerings that are differentiated enough that it's not just lowballing prices causing pressure on the more established competitors. And they do sponsor pros, ever heard of Mathieu van der Poel or Movistar? Not to mention Canyon-SRAM, could've guessed from the name!

That said, I have one bike from Canyon, two from my LBSes, a few more bought online, and I wouldn't say any buying experiences were perfect or be the sole avenue I'd recommend. One of those two LBSes is fantastic -- when I get the owner is involved -- but it's a single brand shop and doesn't carry everything I want. The other LBS gave me zero reason to ever shop there again. My online purchases require more effort on my own, maintenance-wise, but I've learned a lot in a short time and feel comfortable with that. For the shopper who doesn't need an LBS to do everything Canyon is a good option; their appeal in the US market is more to those who know what they want.
So, if I am in Boise, the bike actually comes from CA? And then, if there is an issue, it goes back to CA, not to the EU? See, that is very helpful information. Thank you!
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Old 04-10-20, 01:02 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
I don't have enough information to have contempt for them. But everyone who owns one seems to love it.
There you go. You just answered your own question about "seemingly completely over-the-top and endless fandom for Canyon" that you had in your first post.

Also, there is no reason to be "personally alarmed" either. Other people enjoying and riding their bikes doesnt pose any threat to you.

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Old 04-10-20, 02:13 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
Anyhow, to me, the situation where someone does end up with the wrong bike after dropping 2500 bucks or whatever and then, has to ship the whole thing back to Germany is just not a very good transaction--for the customer, in my opinion. It's great for Canyon, short-term. Not so great for the gal that needed a 50 endurance ride but ended up with a 52-gravel bike--or whatever.
You don't think bike shops push ill fitting bikes on customers because thats what they have on the floor?
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Old 04-10-20, 03:18 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
Why are those particular bikes marked up so much, in your opinion? Wouldn't they sell a bunch more of them if they are 5500 bucks instead of $12K?
Are you serious? Most brands have products in both the $5500 as well as the $12k range. Surely "an international experienced business person" like yourself, who has "steered a public company from nearly the very tippy top" has heard of the concept of product segmentation/price tiering.

I am impressed by your ability to move goalposts as much as you have done on this thread - especially with presumably skinny cyclist arms: from being "personally alarmed" by Canyon (for hitherto mysterious reasons), to claiming they are a threat to the LBS, to now showing concern about poor unwitting buyers who may get a wrong size buying online - all the while admitting to not having any information about them other them other than knowing happy owners. Chapeau!

To address your points:

- "personal alarm" - cant help you there.

- "threat to LBS / online sales" - more people buying bikes is not just a threat - it can be an opportunity as well. They can come in for service, for consumables, for upgrades, for service, etc. I have spent about $2k at my LBS in the past year without buying a single bike from them. And in any case, even if it does squeeze bike shops a little, it will result in a consolidation of the market - it wont wipe out all bike shops (as an internationally experienced businessman, you will of course realize that as the number of bike shops decreases, the customers/shop ratio increases and the financial model also changes).

- "fit issues" - this is not unique to Canyon. Plenty of shops like CC, Excel, RA, etc sell boat tons of bikes online. And if there is a fit issue, why - this is an opportunity for the LBS to sell a fit session and assorted parts to make the customer happy. Incidentally, my first road bike was from a Trek shop which sold me a size 60. All my subsequent bikes but 1 have been online - and a size 56, which is my ideal size.

I am very surprised that someone who has steered a public company from nearly the very tippy top is looking at the market in such an overly simplistic manner.
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Old 04-10-20, 07:31 AM
  #45  
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Why is the question "How much damage to the establishment does a disruptive approach/technology do?" instead of asking the question "What unmet need is the disruptive approach/technology addressing?"

I think Canyon, Amazon, and other internet stores are addressing the customers desire for value at the expense of personalized service and immediate availability.
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Old 04-10-20, 07:50 AM
  #46  
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This discussion seems to be focused on bike sales (and higher-end bikes at that). I'm sure it depends on the shop/location, but I would imagine that many shops rely on repairs to remain profitable (at least back when I worked in a shop, the margins on service were way better than sales).
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Old 04-10-20, 07:56 AM
  #47  
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I will say, Canyon's marketing is pretty effective, at least for me. A lot of the cycling youtubers I follow ride Canyons, and the support they get seems phenomenal, plus the bikes look fantastic so I'd definitely consider one.
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Old 04-10-20, 07:57 AM
  #48  
seypat
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a Canyon out on the road. And I know a guy that works for 'em.
I saw one in my neighborhood yesterday.(RVA area) It looked grand from my view.
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Old 04-10-20, 08:30 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
Wow. Thanks very much for telling me what it's all about. Good to know.

You and I have very different views and beliefs about community businesses. I make it a point to support all kinds of businesses that are more expensive than amazon or Walmart. Tons of them. All for different, specific reasons. Some do a better job of "earning" my business than others, but I believe the market is best served by abundant competition, generally speaking. So, I go out of my way to patronize all sorts of companies and their products, some, probably more deserving than others.

I have washed dishes, flipped burgers, transplanted hearts, and steered a public US company from almost the tippy top position. Businesses on this planet generally succeed for one or both of two reasons in my experience: 1) They have an attractive value proposition; and 2) The take care of their customers. Canyon obviously has "1" going for it. It's the "2" part I worry about. Not for them. For their customers. But what do I know...
So what will you do when robots start to replace more and more low-skilled jobs? Which will happen, inevitably. And inevitably the US government will not prepare for it properly, because they don't care enough about normal people (heck even here in Europe there are people urging governments to do more and we are much more social). There's gonna be a lot of people without employment unless new jobs are created. There's always going to be changes.

Anyway, more to your thread - who do you think profits more from the sale of an overpriced Trek - Trek or the LBS? My money is on Trek. So Canyon is a bigger threat to Trek than LBS. As someone said, Amazon and online retail in general is a much bigger threat to the LBS, because why even buy a tire from them if you can get it cheaper online? I have actually looked at other brands but do you know what? Canyon bikes are ridiculously more inexpensive - for the same price you get essentially the next model up, or even lower price is next model up. If Big companies would lower their prices that would have a much bigger impact. And Canyon directly sponsors one ladies team and has what, two pro teams using their bike? If big name companies need to sell at such high prices, it's because they have to many execs raking in cash. Or if they do actually spend so much on marketing and sponsorships, I would severely question that strategy, especially in this day and age where I can go online read reviews, compare bikes in detail and see for myself that I can either spend the same for next model up, or save 1-2k and get same weight bike, same components and see from reviews and hear from others that the quality is there. Big name, big price does not equal higher quality.
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Old 04-10-20, 08:39 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
I have always found it helpful and compelling when other human beings inform me what my feelings, thoughts, beliefs, and experiences are and have been--and also what the relative value of all those is. Always best to have others provide us with our own views.

As for Canyon and the post, I think your exquisite and thermonuclear hypersensitivity about the topic really says everything. Thank you for making my point for me. That's always the best way. And yet, I totally support your fondness for them or their business model, I do, irrespective of from whence it comes. Canyon employee? Dunno. But if so, that's great, too. Saving people cash is awesome. As I say, I have actually bought a bike online. A spendy one. Saved some money, for sure. I actually have some experience here. But I only did it once. Jut had a few concerns about follow-up and support and so forth. Was a tad uncomfortable about doing that again. So, I didn't. Haven't. But that's my thing and certainly not everyone must agree with me--on anything. Ever.

I have zero contempt for Canyon. I don't have enough information to have contempt for them. But everyone who owns one seems to love it. They are cool-looking. All the cool people seem top have one. My contempt, which is not even remotely the right word (it is your word, but I won't bother to share the correct one with you, as you will simply use it to denigrate me and put me on blast and attempt to publicly humiliate and shame me--yet again, since that is what you do) is my concern that some unsophisticated buyers, sometimes first-time buyers, sometimes others, may end up with a bike that does not really fit or work for them, for their needs, for their specific uses--and not even know that, because, once you unbox an online-purchased bike, you are kind of on your own. I know--I did it!!!. With and from a very respected retailer. They were great. But they weren't in my apartment with me. Were not in my town. Or state.

Anyhow, to me, the situation where someone does end up with the wrong bike after dropping 2500 bucks or whatever and then, has to ship the whole thing back to Germany is just not a very good transaction--for the customer, in my opinion. It's great for Canyon, short-term. Not so great for the gal that needed a 50 endurance ride but ended up with a 52-gravel bike--or whatever. Or fill-in-the-blank. Now, maybe Canyon is such an awesome company that his never happens. Could be. I don't know. Part of why I posted the thread, not to trash them. To pose the question--just what effect is all this exuberant interest in this company having overall, if any? I certainly don't know, quite obviously.

Had I wished to trash the company, you would know. It would have been flagrant and overwhelming and in-everyone's-face.

Lastly, should you in the future choose to go on message boards and venomously lecture experienced international business people about international business issues, expect a response and, more likely than not, some context to be provided in concert with that response. Context allows the reader to better understand where someone is coming from. What their prior experiences, expertise, knowledge base, fund of knowledge, if any, may be being brought to bear on any current or prior discussion. The fact that again you interpreted this in the most negative possible light is in keeping with virtually the entirety off all your prior posts.
Projection is heavy in this post.

Your comment about buying the wrong bike is also just massively ridiculous. It's akin to saying some noob is not buying a new PC ready made but wants to do it in parts and gets an Intel CPU but AMD motherboard - that's your own fault. Not to mention I highly doubt you honestly, truly care about some individual buying the 'wrong' bike who would have bought the 'right' bike if only the LBS could have advised that person. In fact, you just showed us a reason for LBS to exist - help out noobs who don't know anything about cycling and don't want to do their own research.
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