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Listening to Music via Headphones?

Old 05-12-20, 02:01 PM
  #301  
tomato coupe
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
I have persistently linked to this video as a definitive (vicarious) example of an ultimate.collision:
Yes, but it was soooo long ago (10 posts) that we all forgot. Please, please, please stop.
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Old 05-12-20, 02:07 PM
  #302  
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
I just finished 30 mile ride and on the way home I decided to take a 1 mile segment of the local MUP. I stopped at a bench to take a brake and did an unscientific study. The bench is about 8 feet from the path and when a walker approached (slower than a cyclist so no wind noise) I called out "can i ask you a question". I did this at 30', 20' and 10'. At 10' they did hear something but I asked how many times I called and all said once. So at 10' they can hear something.

There's a good chance they are just ignoring that strange guy sitting on a bench.

OTOH - with an earbud playing music, I often ask stopped riders (changing a flat, etc) if they have everything they need, and I can hear them say they are OK or would like help.

I know you know this, some people do listen to music too loud while biking, jogging, walking to hear others around them - EVERYONE in this tread agrees that this is a bad idea.
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Old 05-12-20, 02:23 PM
  #303  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
There's a good chance they are just ignoring that strange guy sitting on a bench.
You mean the "creepy" guy in the Lycra.. sure I can see that

Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
I know you know this, some people do listen to music too loud while biking, jogging, walking to hear others around them - EVERYONE in this tread agrees that this is a bad idea.
I agree also.

The problem is that "some people" seem to be the majority. You and DrIsotope are the exception.

If you read all the other posts in this topic, most see earbuds as a danger.

I'm done... unless someone posts something stupid. You can have the last word.
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Old 05-12-20, 05:12 PM
  #304  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
EVERYONE in this tread agrees that this is a bad idea.
Not true, several have said they think hearing is pointless and they can't hear anything anyway. Pretty sure people hear me regardless because I get nitwits complaining for announcing my presence so that they will move tf over but many of them would not hear me if I didn't use my outside voice of if I had an average voice.
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Old 05-12-20, 06:16 PM
  #305  
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Sorry for my ignorance, but what is MUP or MUPs (I am new here)?
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Old 05-12-20, 06:34 PM
  #306  
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Originally Posted by George1953 View Post
Sorry for my ignorance, but what is MUP or MUPs (I am new here)?
Multi Use Path
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Old 05-12-20, 06:50 PM
  #307  
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Correct me if I am wrong, I assume it is Multiple Use Path (i.e. path used by walkers, hikers, joggers, bikers)?
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Old 05-12-20, 07:18 PM
  #308  
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Originally Posted by George1953 View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, I assume it is Multiple Use Path (i.e. path used by walkers, hikers, joggers, bikers)?
And sometimes idiots on ATVs!?><?!
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Old 05-12-20, 09:26 PM
  #309  
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I guess we shouldn’t listen to anything while driving our cars either. For that matter, we should remove any noise deadening materials from our cars. We should install microphones to amplify the sound of outside traffic.

FWIW same issue is with cars. Someone rear ends you in a car there is virtually nothing you can do to prevent it, and they are rare enough that it would be mentally exhausting to always be looking in your mirror afraid of being rear ended.
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Old 05-12-20, 10:20 PM
  #310  
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
I just finished 30 mile ride and on the way home I decided to take a 1 mile segment of the local MUP. I stopped at a bench to take a brake and did an unscientific study. The bench is about 8 feet from the path and when a walker approached (slower than a cyclist so no wind noise) I called out "can i ask you a question". I did this at 30', 20' and 10'. At 10' they did hear something but I asked how many times I called and all said once. So at 10' they can hear something.
What was the question you wanted to ask them? Surely you didn't ask if you could ask a question, only for that question to then be at what point they could hear you ask them if you could ask them a question.

To actually sit alongside a MUP and do this would be beyond absurd, even for the general cycling forum.
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Old 05-12-20, 10:48 PM
  #311  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Every MUP I've ever ridden on has posted rules requiring announcing so I don't agree with much of what you're saying. I announce, I don't pass unless the oncoming lane is clear, and I literally don't recall ever having an issue with a jogger in many thousands of miles of MUP riding. It is the voluntarily deaf non-announcing bicyclists that cause the problems. They can cross a path randomly and rapidly.

And no, I generally don't slow to a jogging speed when I pass. That's absurd, and is contrary to the practice on any MUP I've ever ridden on.
I've never seen that sign, just showing that we all have different experiences.

Hmm.... "absurd". I couldn't disagree with you more on that.
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Old 05-12-20, 11:02 PM
  #312  
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Originally Posted by buttnerd View Post
There was this lady riding along what at 5:30am not a busy road. She decided to make a left from the bike lane into my street. She didn't live to make it to the other side of the road. For that reason no. Her iTunes was still playing when we got to her. Besides, all the sounds that you might enjoy hearing will be missed.
This supports the point I and others have made that it's riding like a dope that is dangerous, not listening to ear buds.
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Old 05-12-20, 11:50 PM
  #313  
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Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
I've never seen that sign, just showing that we all have different experiences.

Hmm.... "absurd". I couldn't disagree with you more on that.

Well, think about it for a second. If you slow to jogging speed every time you try to pass a jogger, you're not going to pass them, you'll either be behind or alongside them. A decent path is designed with the assumption of traffic of differing speeds. If you're not close passing, then slowing like that is completely unnecessary and just prolongs the amount of time you're in relatively close proximity.

Also, I can't tell where you live, but you might want to check out the bike statutes. A lot of states make announcing or bell ringing mandatory.

Last edited by livedarklions; 05-12-20 at 11:54 PM.
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Old 05-13-20, 01:57 AM
  #314  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
To actually sit alongside a MUP and do this would be beyond absurd, even for the general cycling forum.
I guess you need to update your expectations of what's acceptable.
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Old 05-13-20, 02:01 AM
  #315  
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Originally Posted by adlai View Post
I guess we shouldn’t listen to anything while driving our cars either.
The first thing my neighbor does is turn on the radio after she starts her car.

Last year she backed over a garbage can getting out of the driveway and continued to drag it down the road under her car. The only reason i know this is I could hear it being dragged from my house.

Luckily it wasn't a child.
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Old 05-13-20, 02:08 AM
  #316  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Also, I can't tell where you live, but you might want to check out the bike statutes. A lot of states make announcing or bell ringing mandatory.
New York State
"A bicycle must be equipped with:
  • A bell, horn or other device that can be heard at least 100 feet away. Sirens and whistles are not permitted (Sec. 1236(b))."
I guess i'll have to get an air horn to be heard 100' away by someone with headphone or earbuds
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Old 05-13-20, 02:09 AM
  #317  
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I've never cycled whilst listening to music although I have considered it. Do I think it's more unsafe? Dunno, both sides of this argument I think have valid points but ultimately it's up to the individual.

One thing that occurs, if said cyclist is wearing earbuds or whatever and is slammed into by an idiot car driver who is totally at fault etc, one scenario I can see is the driver will most likely claim the cyclist was listening to music/had earbuds in and was distracted. (I'm making up a hypothetical but likely defence case). Now, the vast majority of the general public are not cyclists but likely are motorists and unfortunately there is plenty of cases where it's an us and them situation, especially in busy urban areas (London for example), motorists do not like cyclists. They see stuff reported in newspapers and online where lycra clad hooligans are weaving in and out of traffic, jumping red lights etc. These things do happen on occasion but then all cyclists get tarred with same brush by general public.
Now, it's absolutely the case you are not more likely to be hit by a car if wearing earbuds etc but I can see a situation where potentially the police, judge jury etc may consciously or unconsciously think "hmmm maybe he WAS distracted and wandered into path of car". You'd hope not but this is a scenario I can see occurring.

Just to be crystal clear, I am not taking sides here or advocating either way. We're all adults here so make your own decision. I'm just wondering if worse thing happened who would the police etc believe given there is a lot of prejudice against cyclists in some areas.

Here is just one random article about this :
Warning on headphones as cyclist ruled to have caused own death - Sticky Bottle - Sticky Bottle

Last edited by SurferCyclist; 05-13-20 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 05-13-20, 02:26 AM
  #318  
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If I see earbuds when I approach someone I add caution. They very rarely hear my bell or even “rider back”. I can sometimes hear the music as I pass , it is so loud. I am not riding ANY multi use paths at this time .
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Old 05-13-20, 05:48 AM
  #319  
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Listening to headphones while riding your bike is a great way to damage your hearing forever. When riding your bike at 15mph + there is a lot of wind noise, even with sound isolating earbuds, so you have to crank the volume up even higher to drown out the wind noise which is bad for your ears.

Same thing applies to using headphones on airplanes or at gyms.
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Old 05-13-20, 06:08 AM
  #320  
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Originally Posted by The Big Wheel View Post
Listening to headphones while riding your bike is a great way to damage your hearing forever. When riding your bike at 15mph + there is a lot of wind noise, even with sound isolating earbuds, so you have to crank the volume up even higher to drown out the wind noise which is bad for your ears.

Same thing applies to using headphones on airplanes or at gyms.
Or, the ear buds help reduce wind noise, you play the music at normal volume, and you just don't hear the music as clearly as if it were louder.

Wild idea, I know.
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Old 05-13-20, 06:46 AM
  #321  
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Originally Posted by adlai View Post
I guess we shouldnít listen to anything while driving our cars either. For that matter, we should remove any noise deadening materials from our cars. We should install microphones to amplify the sound of outside traffic.

FWIW same issue is with cars. Someone rear ends you in a car there is virtually nothing you can do to prevent it, and they are rare enough that it would be mentally exhausting to always be looking in your mirror afraid of being rear ended.

Actually, I believe most states make it illegal to wear headphones or buds in both ears while driving.

I've tried to be clear in this thread that I'm not saying that wearing ear buds should be illegal, only that people who are claiming that they are not sacrificing some margin of safety if they obstruct their hearing are probably fooling themselves, and they certainly shouldn't be telling other people they shouldn't be using their hearing as ONE of the senses to nfiorm their situational awareness.

That being said, these "yeah but drivers..." points are generally pretty dumb. Like most people on these forums, I both drive and ride, and they are very different activities. Riding at speed requires an attention to road conditions far in excess of what I need to drive safely. Yes, I need to be fully aware of all traffic in my path and to some extent behind me when I drive, but what I don't have to do is watch out for the small obstruction that might flip my vehicle over. I have to laugh when people say all you have to do on a bike is maintain a straight path on the road--obviously, they are not familiar with New England potholes that frequently make such a strategy absolutely impossible. So basically, it is a whole lot more important to a bicyclist to know who is behind them than it generally is to a driver.
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Old 05-13-20, 06:53 AM
  #322  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
I know you know this, some people do listen to music too loud while biking, jogging, walking to hear others around them - EVERYONE in this tread agrees that this is a bad idea.
Originally Posted by Oneder View Post
Not true, several have said they think hearing is pointless and they can't hear anything anyway. Pretty sure people hear me regardless because I get nitwits complaining for announcing my presence so that they will move tf over but many of them would not hear me if I didn't use my outside voice of if I had an average voice.
I don't know of a post that says hearing is pointless - please quote post or posts.

My point (bold-underline for emphasis), I don't know of any posts in this thread suggesting listening to music so loud that you can't hear your surrounds is a good idea.

There are many times I can't hear while riding, most often it's wind noise from descending or headwinds. At times like this, I count on my Garmin Varia radar to alert me to approaching traffic; others like to use a mirror. Either way, hearing is not the end-all and be-all to safety while biking and music is not the only thing that limits your hearing - I've seen this point made many times, but that is completely different than saying hearing is 'pointless'.

I will be as clear as possible on my positions:
  • Listen to music, or other audio, while riding is safe on the condition that you can hear your surroundings. There are many posts about options for doing this - I'm a fan of right only earbud with low volume.
  • Listening to music, or other audio, too loud to hear your surrounds is a bad idea for you and others around you. I will get loud and pissed off when I encounter a trail user that can't hear my bell/voice when passing because their music is too loud. It is a frequent issue, and is usually frustrating.
  • This is not a binary topic, there are many options to safely/responsibly listen to audio while riding.
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Old 05-13-20, 07:00 AM
  #323  
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Mirrors work when aimed well and if you look at them. Radar works if it works when you look at a tiny little display and interpret it correctly. To do either of these you must take your eyes off the road.

Hearing works full time all the time. No boot up, no delays. No taking attention away from road ahead.

Number one cause of bike accidents is not paying attention, not watching where you are going. If you are in a deep emotional relationship with your electronica nothing can be said to you. I have seen too many accidents directly and obviously caused by attention given to electronics.

What do you do when it rains? You can’t see anything in the mirror, you can’t see any pixels.

Again hearing works full time all the time. If you want to ride with half a deck you are in a large club if that’s what makes you feel good.
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Old 05-13-20, 07:03 AM
  #324  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
and they certainly shouldn't be telling other people they shouldn't be using their hearing as ONE of the senses to nfiorm their situational awareness.
I must have missed those posts.

Your point about New England potholes is well taken. On rural roads here you do see a few potholes, but very few in town. Few enough that you can look a ways up the road and plan accordingly without any problems. To be honest, I do occasionally opt to swerve to the left. What I do in those cases is check over my shoulder first.

If the road is peppered with potholes Iíd pick another road. But if all the roads are peppered with potholes, yeah, a rider is going to be swerving.

Riding on the road where I had to continually swerve into traffic that may or may not be behind me would be far, far more dangerous than riding the roads here with ear buds, in my opinion. I KNOW...we need a post telling people to never ride on roads with potholes!
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Old 05-13-20, 07:11 AM
  #325  
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Here's the bottom line on this oft discussed and always contentious subject. People can and do ride safely with buds. There are ways to compensate for not having your ears as sensors. Based on my interactions with budded cyclists, they probably aren't compensating as well as they think they are.
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