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27 1/4" Rims?

Old 05-17-20, 06:55 PM
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gthomson
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27 1/4" Rims?

I am new to the forum and hope this is not a common thread but couldn't find it with search. I am searching for 27 1 1/4" rims to replace my Rigida rims for my 80's Peugot bike. Where would I get these?
BTW I live in Toronto, Canada
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Old 05-17-20, 07:14 PM
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Why not switch to 700c if building new wheels? You'll have better tire choices.

Sun CR 18 27 inch rim will look on an old Peugeot. You likely need 36 hole?

https://www.amazon.com/SUNringle-Sun.../dp/B002DMRBY6
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Old 05-17-20, 07:22 PM
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gthomson your brake shoes will need to drop about 1/4" or so if you want to use 700C rims (a good idea btw). Is there room in your calipers to do that?
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Old 05-17-20, 08:07 PM
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I think the brake calipers have room for movement but I was hoping to keep it as a vintage restoration with original parts. Other than the seat, bottle cage holder and grip tape, everything else is original. Is that what most people do, convert to 700C rims? I would like to keep original if possible.
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Old 05-17-20, 08:19 PM
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What are the original rims then, in your estimation?
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Old 05-17-20, 08:39 PM
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And is there anything wrong with the original rims? If original equipment is desired, you may be better off just getting those trued by your local bikeshop/co-op mechanic.
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Old 05-17-20, 09:04 PM
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The original rims are Rigida rims but they appear to be warped despite my muliplte attempts to tru them. The bike is rideable but when examxaminging the bike on my repair rack they wobble
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Old 05-17-20, 09:04 PM
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As a rule, when seeking something for my vintage bicycles, I choose Ebay (Sporting Goods - Cycling - Vintage Cycling) and also the For Sale forum, right here at Bike Forums. To that add that I agree with others, when they suggest going to a 700c wheel, which is a wee bit smaller in diameter than the 27s.

Anywy, Ebay or here is the best answer that I can give to your question.
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Old 05-17-20, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
The original rims are Rigida rims but they appear to be warped despite my muliplte attempts to tru them. The bike is rideable but when examxaminging the bike on my repair rack they wobble
Do you know how to true them? Have to ask since this is the obvious one. Although 700c is easier to get if you want to keep it fairly original then a pair of 27" rims won't set you back too much and you'll probably find the same model fairly affordably on ebay. If you go that route replace the spokes, even if they're not breaking now using 30+ year old spokes and nipples on a new build is just a waste of time, but if you get the exact same rims it will make it easy to measure your current spokes and get a new one, if so get an actual spoke ruler to measure with, it will make the measurement more accurate.
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Old 05-17-20, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
The original rims are Rigida rims but they appear to be warped despite my muliplte attempts to tru them. The bike is rideable but when examxaminging the bike on my repair rack they wobble
Trueing old wheels can be a rabbit hole. Ideally, all spokes on the same side of the rim should have uniform tension. After multiple attempts to true a wheel, spoke tension can be all over the map making the wheel more susceptible to becoming out-of-true again.

I recently restored a 1970's 10 speed and like you, I wanted to keep it original. I trued the original wheels but after checking the spoke tensions, they were all different so I knew the trueness would not last. After unlacing the wheels, I checked the rims on a flat surface, and then bent them so that they were flat. I also checked their roundness with a tape measure and corrected the deviations. I then re-laced, trued, and checked the spoke tensions, they were all within narrow tollerance so I chalked it up as a win.

These old rims are also straight walled (no hooks), the Continental tires I bought state right on the sidewall USE ONLY ON HOOKED RIMS, well, that didn't stop me. With safety goggles and aviator ear muffs on, I inflated them to 100psi, let them sit that way for a few days and then took it for a spin. So far so good.

I will not be loading this bike for touring and will not be riding it competitively. It's simply a nice vintage 10 speed that I will tool around in.

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Old 05-18-20, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
...These old rims are also straight walled (no hooks), the Continental tires I bought state right on the sidewall USE ONLY ON HOOKED RIMS, well, that didn't stop me. With safety goggles and aviator ear muffs on, I inflated them to 100psi, let them sit that way for a few days and then took it for a spin. So far so good.
...
I've gotten away with that, too. (Though not up to 100psi) If you get a tight-enough fitting tire (smallish for its nominal sizing) on a tight-enough fitting rim (largish for its nominal sizing), you can get away with it. You can also stop and check the sidewalls as you inflate; sometimes if the fit is not fortuitous, one part of the bead will start creeping up and get ready to unseat itself and -- KABLOOEY!

If you're paying attention you can catch this before it blows, and deflate in time. I pretty much avoid playing this game anymore.
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Old 05-18-20, 05:30 AM
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I agree with branko_76 about dismantling and rebuilding the wheels. Most likely the rims are ok and will come out true if you start from scratch.
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Old 05-18-20, 06:16 AM
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Hey everyone, thanks for the responses, I'm glad I found this forum. You ever go to bike stores and start talking vintage steel and they all look at you like you're an alien?

I bought the bike in 1987 and almost all is original, including the rims (new tires obviously) and they have some dents in them. Regarding the "rabbit hole" that seems to be where I'm at because I tighten and loosen thinking I got them straight, go out for a cruise ( I only ride it casually around town) come back, put it on the rack and it seems to be out of alignment again. I have had to repair 2 spokes which didn't break but somehow came un screwed from the nipple? took off the tire, and screwed it back in.

Sounds like I need to look at the 700c option rim and see if that will work. I assume I need to find one with the same 6 gear cassette?
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Old 05-18-20, 07:20 AM
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+1 for CR-18s if you go new! I ride them and love them on my all-around bike. They are very sturdy and look appropriate as well. True that 700c has way way better tire options, but there are plenty of perfectly good tires in 27" still. As far as used, I just picked up some Ukai 27 x 1 1/4 (hookless) that were taken off a Miyata 610 for $60! They have the Sansin Gyromaster sealed hubs which are fantastic. I see similar sets pop up all the time (hubs might also be labelled Sunshine). I think a lot of folks pick up bikes with 27" wheels and consider them take-offs and then switch to 700c without even riding them. This means that great 27" wheelsets are out there for great prices! Additionally, like branko_76 I've had no issue installing and riding tires despite the "only for use on hooked rims" warning.
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Old 05-18-20, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
Hey everyone, thanks for the responses, I'm glad I found this forum. You ever go to bike stores and start talking vintage steel and they all look at you like you're an alien?

I bought the bike in 1987 and almost all is original, including the rims (new tires obviously) and they have some dents in them. Regarding the "rabbit hole" that seems to be where I'm at because I tighten and loosen thinking I got them straight, go out for a cruise ( I only ride it casually around town) come back, put it on the rack and it seems to be out of alignment again. I have had to repair 2 spokes which didn't break but somehow came un screwed from the nipple? took off the tire, and screwed it back in.

Sounds like I need to look at the 700c option rim and see if that will work. I assume I need to find one with the same 6 gear cassette?
These are good wheels and reasonably priced:

https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...qpm9f4kmspae41

Velo mine also sells them in 27 inch if you prefer that:

https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...qpm9f4kmspae41
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Old 05-18-20, 11:13 AM
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I can vouch for the Velomine wheel set. I've had to true them a couple time, but I'm "not a small person".
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Old 05-18-20, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman View Post
I've gotten away with that, too. (Though not up to 100psi) If you get a tight-enough fitting tire (smallish for its nominal sizing) on a tight-enough fitting rim (largish for its nominal sizing), you can get away with it. You can also stop and check the sidewalls as you inflate; sometimes if the fit is not fortuitous, one part of the bead will start creeping up and get ready to unseat itself and -- KABLOOEY!

If you're paying attention you can catch this before it blows, and deflate in time. I pretty much avoid playing this game anymore.
Whenever I pump a tire, mounted in a hooked rim or not, I check to make sure the tire is seated properly at 20, 40, 60 and 80 psi
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Old 05-18-20, 12:49 PM
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.
...in case you have not yet considered this, the bicycle rims you buy today from companies like Sun (the CR18's) and many others are far superior in construction design and manufacturing than a set from the 80's . They are lighter, more resistant to deformation, and are very often easier to build than many 70's-80's rims. In general, given your description of the history and current status of your wheels, rebuilding appears to be the way to go. The rim diameter you pick is kind of up to you, but 700c gives you a lot more tyre choices.
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Old 05-18-20, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
Sounds like I need to look at the 700c option and see if that will work.
If it works, there's very little reason not to go 700c. This move should also increase the bike's value.

I assume I need to find one with the same 6 gear cassette?
Measure the distance between the rear dropouts of the frame. If you have a 6- or 7-speed freewheel, the over-locknut distance (o.l.d.) of the hub and the frame spacing are likely around 126mm. Generally, you match those two (the frame and the o.l.d. of the hub) to the same (or very close) spacing.

If you're good with a wrench, you can build them yourself. It's really pretty easy if you start with new rims and new spokes. That way, you can use your vintage hubs after you polish 'em up like new.

Sheldon Brown lays it all out like a recipe from Betty Crocker.
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Old 05-18-20, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...in case you have not yet considered this, the bicycle rims you buy today from companies like Sun (the CR18's) and many others are far superior in construction design and manufacturing than a set from the 80's . They are lighter, more resistant to deformation, and are very often easier to build than many 70's-80's rims. In general, given your description of the history and current status of your wheels, rebuilding appears to be the way to go. The rim diameter you pick is kind of up to you, but 700c gives you a lot more tyre choices.
Rigida 13/20 (700C).... 425 grams
SUN M13 ll (700C)...... 452 grams
SUN CR 18 (27").........552 grams

all are:
double-wall construction
eyelets only on inner (exposed) wall
outer walls are not reinforced
pinned joints

I've been running 2 pair of (1980's) Rigida 13/20 for some time without any issues. Same goes for my SUN M13 ll rims, so I can't say which are better.

Is it the metallurgy of the SUN rims that make them far superior to the Rigida's ?
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Old 05-18-20, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
Rigida 13/20 (700C).... 425 grams
SUN M13 ll (700C)...... 452 grams
SUN CR 18 (27").........552 grams

all are:
double-wall construction
eyelets only on inner (exposed) wall
outer walls are not reinforced
pinned joints

I've been running 2 pair of (1980's) Rigida 13/20 for some time without any issues. Same goes for my SUN M13 ll rims, so I can't say which are better.

Is it the metallurgy of the SUN rims that make them far superior to the Rigida's ?
....I can see you are all spring loaded for a fight here, so I'd simply suggest you find a drawing of the rim cross sections that shows a cutaway view of the molded design reinforcements.

Calling these all "pinned rims" might be technically correct, since the Sun rims are not welded, but the technology for joining is hardly equivalent.

. The rim ends are joined using an aluminum insert that is wedged and bonded into the cavity between the cross-tie and the spoke bed walls, using a blue bonding agent and the rim ends as "sleeves" to grip the aluminum core holding the ends together. The joint quality on the specimen we picked at absolute random from our inventory, showed as perfect a joint as this style of fabrication is capable of, the sides were flush and smooth and the height of the joined ends matched to one another.

Sun Bike Rims - the Buyer's Guide, 2015
I don't believe I said there were no good rims from the 80's (I run a number of wheelsets with Mavic MA-4's and GP-4's that are more than satisfactory. ) Just that, in general, you can get more bang for your buck in today's bargain priced rims because of advances in manufacturing technology. If you really want to argue about it. I'm afraid you'll need to find someone else. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong.
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Old 05-18-20, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...in case you have not yet considered this, the bicycle rims you buy today from companies like Sun (the CR18's) and many others are far superior in construction design and manufacturing than a set from the 80's . They are lighter, more resistant to deformation, and are very often easier to build than many 70's-80's rims. In general, given your description of the history and current status of your wheels, rebuilding appears to be the way to go. The rim diameter you pick is kind of up to you, but 700c gives you a lot more tyre choices.
My response to the above post was in no way an invitation to an argument. I simply want to know why a modern mid-range rim like the Sun CR18 is "far superior" to a 1980's rim like the Rigida 13/20. I provided some basic data for the rims which seemed to conflict with your statement of weight, design etc. I wanted to know if there was something about the aluminum alloy used in the Sun CR 18 that was more suited to cycling than older aluminum. That's all.
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Old 05-19-20, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
Rigida 13/20 (700C).... 425 grams
SUN M13 ll (700C)...... 452 grams
SUN CR 18 (27").........552 grams
That's why I'd go with the m13ii unless you're running wider than 28mm.

Speaking of lightweight, I have these Arayas (photo is from the web; don't know the model) on my '82 Miyata 912, and they feel super light.



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Old 05-19-20, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
That's why I'd go with the m13ii unless you're running wider than 28mm.

Speaking of lightweight, I have these Arayas (don't know the model) on my '82 Miyata 912, and they feel super light.



My '81 Miyata 912 had the same rims, the previous owner drilled them out to accept Schrader valves, ouch. I'm restoring it but will use M13 ll... and, wait for it....butted spokes...
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Old 05-19-20, 02:12 AM
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I just got done rebuilding a set of Peugeot U0-8 wheels for a guy here. They're dated 1972, 100% original down to the spokes, he insisted on reusing every last spoke. They were removed and laid out in order and put back exactly as they came out, after being individually polished. The hubs were stripped, cleaned, polished back to new condition, the bearings were soaked and cleaned and re-greased, and the skewers were taken apart and polished. The tires aren't original to 1972, but he has them, he removed them when the bike was new and vacuum sealed them. (He's done this with dozens of old bikes he bought new). The tires on the rims are 80's era gumwalls that he displays the bike with. It likely will never get ridden beyond the day he puts the wheels back on it, it'll hang in his game room along with so many others. Some were bikes he rode back in the day, some are just new old stock bikes he bought to keep. He doesn't display any bike with its original tires because he doesn't want them to dry rot just hanging there. Hs's got dozens more in storage that'll likely never see the light of day.
None are particularly valuable bikes, most are entry level or mid grade models.
While these came out really nice, they needed to be finessed a bit before relacing. Both rims were slightly out of true on a flat surface but a careful push here and there with the palm of the hand and they laced up to be dead on true. The time invested to do this is far beyond what they're worth though, it takes literally hours just cleaning and polishing each spoke, the hubs, the skewers, and the rims to make each and ever piece as close to perfect as it can be again. It would have been far cheaper to just build new wheels with all new components but they wouldn't look original, and certainly wouldn't have the original Rigida serrated rims.


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