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27 1/4" Rims?

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27 1/4" Rims?

Old 05-19-20, 06:33 AM
  #26  
gthomson
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Vintagebycycle, wow is all I can say. That is amazing and true craftsmanship. I am impressed. My Rigida rims are not that nice, must be a basic model maybe? There is something wrong with the rear rim though as I manage to get it mostly true but then watch it spin from a side view and there is a serious warp to it. At this point I want to still be able to ride it so I'm buying new rims and will keep the old ones in the event I can fix them one day.

Thanks again guys, the knowledge here is awesome. After browsing through a ton of posts yesterdayI see that almost all your bikes have new rims so I think that's the way to go. They are a very important part of the bike so why try and work with old technology that I don't really have the experience to rebuild.I like the Sunrings or Velomine option as they look a bit retro and I don't want them to stand out too much. Current rims are 36 spoke, and it's a 12 speed bike so if anyone can confirm I can mount my cassette on those or similar rims I would appreciate it.I have extra Continental tires from my newer road bikes I can use.
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Old 05-19-20, 07:38 AM
  #27  
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Next question, I get this new set of wheels or just back wheel and how do I determine if I can use my original hub and cassette or do I need to get new ones to fit the new wheel? I have never had to change a cassette so if there are good resources for this please let me know. I am looking at Sheldon Brown's site and it looks complicated!
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Old 05-19-20, 08:59 AM
  #28  
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Very nice work vintagebicycle !
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Old 05-19-20, 09:25 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
Next question, I get this new set of wheels or just back wheel and how do I determine if I can use my original hub and cassette or do I need to get new ones to fit the new wheel? I have never had to change a cassette so if there are good resources for this please let me know. I am looking at Sheldon Brown's site and it looks complicated!
Get a pair of wheels. Alloy rims are better than steel and the CR 18s are good rims. Plus it looks flaky to have mismatching wheels. You have a freewheel, not a cassette. You will need the right puller for this and it may be the dickens to get it off. Also there is a possibility that the freewheel (and rear hub) are French threaded in which case the freewheel will not work with your new wheels.

You may want to invest in a new freewheel and chain. I would if this were my bike.

It will shift a bit better (because of the tooth profile) than the atom freewheel you likely have on your Pug. Shimano makes a very good 6 speed freewheel, 14-28. Although you have 6 speed freewheel, you might as well get a 7 speed freewheel. It will fit and an extra gear is a good thing to have. Again Shimano makes a fine 7 speed 14-28 freewheel.


You'll want a puller for it. You won't go wrong with a Park tool:

https://www.parktool.com/product/fre...remover-fr-1-3

Don't forget to grease the threads on the rear hub before threading on the freewheel.

You will want a new chain. A cheap 6-7 speed KMC is perfect.

https://www.amazon.com/KMC-Bicycle-C...fsclp_pl_dp_10

You'll need a tool to cut the chain the right length. A mini tool will have a chain tool and you can take it with you on a ride.

You will need rim tape. Velox makes the best; Velomine will sell you the right width rim tape.

For tires, the world is your oyster with 700c. If you want a very practical tire, it's tough to beat Schwalbe 700 x 32c and the prices tend to be better for Schwalbe tires from the British mail order places.

Panaracer also makes fine tires that will look right on an old bike. A Panaracer Pasela Protite wire bead 700 x 32c is reasonably light, reasonably flat proof, and will look right on your bike.

https://panaracerusa.com/product/pas...ouring-tire-2/

The prices on Panaracers are more or less the same here in the States or from one of the UK mail order places.

Last edited by bikemig; 05-19-20 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 05-19-20, 10:40 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
My response to the above post was in no way an invitation to an argument. I simply want to know why a modern mid-range rim like the Sun CR18 is "far superior" to a 1980's rim like the Rigida 13/20. I provided some basic data for the rims which seemed to conflict with your statement of weight, design etc. I wanted to know if there was something about the aluminum alloy used in the Sun CR 18 that was more suited to cycling than older aluminum. That's all.
...I have no idea about the alloy used in each. I think it's proprietary information anyway. But the extrusion and manufacturing process improvements have led (as I stated), to some subtle redistribution of exactly where the alloy material in a rim is located, which has been done in order to improve resistance to deformation and overall durability in real world use. To think otherwise, and simply compare rim weight, is to ignore 40 years of progress in aluminum forming and extrusion. (Mostly in China...but it carries over to other locations if they want to stay competitive).

It is true that not all of the "improvements" have panned out. Anyone who has had to throw away a set of rims that started cracking at the nipple holes can tell you that.

But in general the stuff you can buy today is better for the money than the stuff I was building with in the 80's. Which is what I said originally. Which was a while ago.
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Old 05-19-20, 10:59 AM
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thank you bikemig that's great information. I've been reading Sheldon Brown and looking at YouTube videos so have a better idea of what to expect. The bike is a UO14 which I read a while back was made in Canada mid-80's so hoping the components are pretty standard. I don't have any of the tools to remove the freewheel or chain cutters so will have get those or.

Will I need spacers to fit the wheel and new freewheel to fit the frame? I just checked and on the current wheel roughly 127 mm's? The hub on the rear wheel is about 50 mm?
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Old 05-19-20, 11:04 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
thank you bikemig that's great information. I've been reading Sheldon Brown and looking at YouTube videos so have a better idea of what to expect. The bike is a UO14 which I read a while back was made in Canada mid-80's so hoping the components are pretty standard. I don't have any of the tools to remove the freewheel or chain cutters so will have get those or.
Looks like a nice bike...

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Old 05-19-20, 11:08 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
Next question, I get this new set of wheels or just back wheel and how do I determine if I can use my original hub and cassette or do I need to get new ones to fit the new wheel? I have never had to change a cassette so if there are good resources for this please let me know. I am looking at Sheldon Brown's site and it looks complicated!
Don't rush into changing the freewheel or chain. If the bike hasn't been ridden hard, they probably have alot of life left in them.

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Old 05-19-20, 11:12 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
There is something wrong with the rear rim though as I manage to get it mostly true but then watch it spin from a side view and there is a serious warp to it.

This doesn't quite make sense. Do you mean that you true the rim laterally (between the brake blocks), and then you look at it from the side, and it has a vertical hop or dip?


Both the side to side motion and the up and down or vertical motion of the rim must be trued. The vertical is more difficult. Without going into a tutorial on truing, If you true the rim from side to side by tightening or loosening only, or do it unevenly, you will introduce a vertical hop to the rim. It sounds like this is what is happening. If you tighten a spoke for example 1/4 turn on one side, its opposing spoke on the other side must be loosened by an equal amount, in this case 1/4 turn. If you don't do this it will make the rim wobble up and down.


Also, BITD people often seemed to ride these Rigida rims with not enough air and hit curbs etc. Dents in the rim also appear as vertical wobbles. It's different than being out of true. They can be repaired also in many cases, but it's not easy and I'm not going to explain the procedure.
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Old 05-19-20, 11:20 AM
  #35  
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The UO14 is very nice bike. If it's in good shape and you are new to restoring/repairing bicycles, I would suggest instead of spending money on new rims, etc. that won't necessarily improve the performance of the bike, keep what you have and invest that money in tools. You will then be able to restore and maintain the bike properly. The tools will pay for themselves in the long run.
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Old 05-19-20, 11:24 AM
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Old 05-19-20, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
Hey everyone, thanks for the responses, I'm glad I found this forum. You ever go to bike stores and start talking vintage steel and they all look at you like you're an alien?

I bought the bike in 1987 and almost all is original, including the rims (new tires obviously) and they have some dents in them. Regarding the "rabbit hole" that seems to be where I'm at because I tighten and loosen thinking I got them straight, go out for a cruise ( I only ride it casually around town) come back, put it on the rack and it seems to be out of alignment again. I have had to repair 2 spokes which didn't break but somehow came un screwed from the nipple? took off the tire, and screwed it back in.

Sounds like I need to look at the 700c option rim and see if that will work. I assume I need to find one with the same 6 gear cassette?
If you have 10 posts, you can upload photos of the bike, rims, hubs, etc. This way we can see what you have and hopefully give better guidance.
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Old 05-19-20, 11:33 AM
  #38  
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Salamandrine That is what's happening actually so maybe I am doing just what you said? there is a dent in the rim that might happened at any time between 1987 and now but I don't remember it being so noticeable. I have no interest in repairing the rim as discussed in this thread, not really worth it. Someone also told me that older steel rims and spokes should be

thanks @branko_76 similar but a different colour scheme. I would post a picture but the site won't let me yet cause I'm too much the newb.
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Old 05-19-20, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
Salamandrine That is what's happening actually so maybe I am doing just what you said? there is a dent in the rim that might happened at any time between 1987 and now but I don't remember it being so noticeable. I have no interest in repairing the rim as discussed in this thread, not really worth it. Someone also told me that older steel rims and spokes should be

thanks @branko_76 similar but a different colour scheme. I would post a picture but the site won't let me yet cause I'm too much the newb.
One more post and you'll be there!
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Old 05-19-20, 11:53 AM
  #40  
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Let's see if I get the too many posts in 25 hour period If not then I am posting a picture. The site admin is pretty strict. Some very nice person from Halifax PM'd me to offer sending me his rim but I can't respond to a PM yet!!!
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Old 05-19-20, 01:38 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
Salamandrine That is what's happening actually so maybe I am doing just what you said? there is a dent in the rim that might happened at any time between 1987 and now but I don't remember it being so noticeable. I have no interest in repairing the rim as discussed in this thread, not really worth it. Someone also told me that older steel rims and spokes should be
Probably that's what's happening, yeah. It's something to be aware of when you rebuild with new rims. Sounds like it's time.

So are these Rigida Aluminum rims, or steel? I'm guessing aluminum because of the specs of the bike. FYI Sun M13II look pretty much the same as Rigida 1320 if you peel off the stickers.
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Old 05-19-20, 03:28 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
. Current rims are 36 spoke, and it's a 12 speed bike so if anyone can confirm I can mount my cassette on those or similar rims I would appreciate it.I have extra Continental tires from my newer road bikes I can use.
Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
Next question, I get this new set of wheels or just back wheel and how do I determine if I can use my original hub and cassette or do I need to get new ones to fit the new wheel? I have never had to change a cassette so if there are good resources for this please let me know. I am looking at Sheldon Brown's site and it looks complicated!
...here's the deal with your current wheels. If you have a six cog setup in the back, and 127mm (or 126mm, which was standard), youi might either have a hub that uses a threaded freewheel, or you might by some very odd chance have one of the newfangled (at the time) Shimano Uniglide, six cog freehubs, which requires cogs that are no longer made. It's most likely a freewheel, but if it's a Shimano Uniglide hub, just go with something in a prebuilt wheel set in the appropriate width for your dropouts. If your front fork measurement width is also 100mm (also standard now and for a while), you shouild be good with whatever comes in the set.

If you really want to experience the adventure of wheel building, make sure you avoid the mistake most people make at least once. Don't cut the spokes to take off your old rim and spokes until you have removed the freewheel.
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Old 05-19-20, 06:27 PM
  #43  
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@gthomson, please note if your UO-14 is the same as that in post #32 catalog page it uses the much maligned (by some, not me) Malliar Helicomatic hubs. These are NOT a screw on freewheel, but rather a proprietary helically splined freewheel mount that requires a proprietary tool to remove the outer lock ring that holds the freewheel on to the hub. That being said, this lock ring can be easily removed with channel lock pliers gingerly applied to the ring and rotated CCW. Caution, not much force is required and don't crush the alloy lock ring. I removed one from my 1985 PH10LS and little more that finger pressure was required to unscrew from a hub so dried and caked with grease residue I'm sure was never maintained! Good luck.
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Old 05-19-20, 06:55 PM
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.
...anyone going to the trouble of lacing new rims onto a Helicomatic rear hub is more masochistic than I am. And I enjoy a certain level of pain.
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Old 05-19-20, 07:25 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...anyone going to the trouble of lacing new rims onto a Helicomatic rear hub is more masochistic than I am.

True 'nuff. If they're Helicomatics, it would be pretty silly, unless you have a crazed dedication to mid 80s french madness, which on this forum is not highly unusual.

Even if they're not Helicomatics, I'd be inclined to buy some prelaced wheels with M13 rims from Velomine or wherever, switch over the quick release skewers, and be done with it.
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Old 05-20-20, 06:45 AM
  #46  
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Is if finally time I'm allowed to post an image?
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Old 05-20-20, 08:31 AM
  #47  
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You may want to borrow a 700c to make sure your calipers will still work. If they were old Mafac's, I'd say no problem but those look shorter in the pic.
If the calipers won't reach, they too will need to be replaced. I tried to go from 27" to 700c on an old Raleigh Super Course and the calipers had to be swapped out and the rear still needed a step bolt. In the end I found it a new old stock set of Weinman 27" rims and relaced them to the original hubs. It looked better and I was able to use all the original parts.

Odd the brochure above for the UO-18 mentions it uses Weinmann concave rims, the guy who picked up the Rigida wheels a little while ago just dropped off a new old stock set of 700c Weinmann concave rims, two new old stock Normandy hubs, and a full set of vintage Robergel spokes. He wants me to build an alternate,identical set of wheels for a bike he's got so he can have one set to display, another to ride on. He says he bought the bike new old stock 20 years ago and never assembled it till just last month. I think his bike is a 78 Raleigh Super Grand Prix. He even somehow found hubs with proper matching date codes to match those on the bike from the factory.
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Old 05-20-20, 09:41 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
thank you bikemig that's great information. I've been reading Sheldon Brown and looking at YouTube videos so have a better idea of what to expect. The bike is a UO14 which I read a while back was made in Canada mid-80's so hoping the components are pretty standard. I don't have any of the tools to remove the freewheel or chain cutters so will have get those or.

Will I need spacers to fit the wheel and new freewheel to fit the frame? I just checked and on the current wheel roughly 127 mm's? The hub on the rear wheel is about 50 mm?

The bike below is a completely different bike than the UO14 in the brochure I posted earlier....



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Old 05-20-20, 09:48 AM
  #49  
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Looks like there is at least 4mm of room to adjust the brake pads down in the slots. 700c is an option.

This should be double checked with actual measurement obviously.
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Old 05-20-20, 09:58 AM
  #50  
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gthomson , are you sure the bike in the photo you posted has 27" wheels? If yes, they may not be original. That bike looks like it had 700C wheels because it's a later model than the one in the brochure.

You also have more than enough room in the caplipers to drop the pads for 700C

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