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My N.C. club is resuming group rides

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My N.C. club is resuming group rides

Old 05-22-20, 04:01 PM
  #51  
WhyFi
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Originally Posted by marathontiger1 View Post
This is not correct, so weíll just disagree. Look, if youíre concerned and fearful, donít go.
You're not even going to make an attempt to back up your vague and ridiculously foundationless assertions? What fun is that?
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Old 05-22-20, 04:14 PM
  #52  
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Caution and/or common sense doesn't equal fear. It amazes me how many experts there are everywhere. The thing is killing 10,000 Americans per week, not to mention sickness and possible long term lung damage. It doesn't make you fearful if you decide to take precautions against it.
Even the real experts don't know as much as we wish they did.
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Old 05-22-20, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by marathontiger1 View Post
This is not correct, so weíll just disagree. Look, if youíre concerned and intelligent, donít go.
Fify
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Old 05-22-20, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
Caution and/or common sense doesn't equal fear.
If you don't have a leg to stand on, you make simply claims and then cast aspersions upon the manliness, intelligence, gumption, etc, etc, etc of those that oppose you. It's long been a common schoolyard bully tactic, but it seems to have gained popularity among some adults recently, though I can't fathom why.
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Old 05-22-20, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
If you don't have a leg to stand on, you make simply claims and then cast aspersions upon the manliness, intelligence, gumption, etc, etc, etc of those that oppose you. It's long been a common schoolyard bully tactic, but it seems to have gained popularity among some adults recently, though I can't fathom why.
Sad!
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Old 05-22-20, 06:39 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
If you don't have a leg to stand on, you make simply claims and then cast aspersions upon the manliness, intelligence, gumption, etc, etc, etc of those that oppose you. It's long been a common schoolyard bully tactic, but it seems to have gained popularity among some adults recently, though I can't fathom why.
They don't want to be inconvenienced.
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Old 05-22-20, 06:57 PM
  #57  
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Not going on group rides this season.
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Old 05-22-20, 08:55 PM
  #58  
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After almost 50 years of cycling , I can honestly say my group rides have been very few and far between. I ride alone and at this time the multi use paths are not on my riding plan. I use a ten meter rule for distancing which is easy as long as I stay on surface streets . I have friends that have had this virus. Two that come to mind , one young man in his thirties and healthy was rushed to the hospital twice and coughed up blood( no preexisting condition) for several days , is on the mend but I’m afraid the lung damage is permanent. The other is a young woman who travels to ski resorts as an instructor , sever neurological damage loss of feeling in all appendages and not sure if it will ever resolve. This is not the flue or anything close , you don’t have to be unhealthy to be severely impacted or killed from this. Be careful and use the guidelines that are recommended it ain’t that hard. You can still ride your bike just be smart. 90,000 deaths and still climbing in this country alone, nothing to ignore.
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Old 05-23-20, 05:54 AM
  #59  
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As with most things these days, the extreme positions have taken control of the debate. Both extremes are making stuff up -- and when made up stuff is repeated often enough, it becomes "true." And these days, people become passionate and destroy relationships over stuff they don't even really know about.

Be reasonable. Be safe. Treat this like any contagious disease. And don't destroy others just because they disagree with you.
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Old 05-23-20, 08:23 PM
  #60  
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Personally...I'm avoiding group rides until this thing is done. Just up the road in Durham, it seems like there's still a fair bit of Rona going around. I'm sticking to solo road rides - no trails, either. I don't see anything changing when I move to Wisconsin in a few months. The kind of people I generally ride with do a lot of spitting and snot-rocketing; other groups are perhaps more polite
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Old 05-23-20, 08:32 PM
  #61  
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If you think aerolized droplets in the air is nonsense watch how long the fumes from a passing oil burning car linger.
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Old 05-25-20, 12:45 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by marathontiger1 View Post
Sorry, but Iím with this guy. Maybe not the tone, but . . . Simple question: exactly how many confirmed cases of cyclist-to-cyclist, group-riding transmission of COVID-19 are there? Answer: zero. And the answer will always be zero. Thereís a reason for that, and it has nothing to do with social distancing. If you want to go on a group ride, go. If you donít, donít. But those who do arenít increasing their risk, and those who donít arenít mitigating theirs.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN20Q312
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Old 05-25-20, 10:53 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
Not that it would influence anyone you're debating, but since someone asking for numbers said ''You're far more likely to be killed or injured ... driving a car,'' you also could point out that there are typically 3,000 monthly traffic fatalities in the U.S. Meanwhile, the death toll from COVID-19 in this country over the past 30 days is 50,000.
In the interest of accuracy, I would assume a lower number, maybe significantly, of the car driving death rate as traffic has plummeted and is still way lower than normal.
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Old 05-25-20, 11:36 AM
  #64  
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I've spent years studying and observing fluid flow (air is a fluid, just not in liquid form) as a competitive sailor, studying naval architecture and fluid dynamics, bike racer and the past 40 years, avoiding cigarette smoke as it made me physically sick. (A result of changing my body's acceptance of toxins because of exposure to bad stuff building fiberglass boats for years.) Objects create vortexes that trail behind for distances relating to Reynolds number, I won't go into a long discussion of Reynolds number, but in short, if it is large (higher speeds, larger objects) the flow is turbulent and the vortexes can extend far behind. I can smell marijuana from a car window when that car is 25 yards up the road. I also developed the awareness of turbulence on my face as a a racing sailor. On cold, wet days as skipper, I could not feel the wind on my body - many layers of clothes! - , nor wet a finger and hold it up to the wind since both hands were occupied, To win, I had to know that air to my sails was "clean" - no turbulence from sails upwind and the wind direction, When I crossed over to bike racing, that awareness helped big time in headwinds and crosswinds. That aerosol from our breath as cyclists could extend far behind and at the elevation of our face; oh yeah. I cannot measure the aerosols but I feel the turbulence.. Inhaling that air deeply, infections are going to spread, Good thing - cyclists are typically young and healthy, Unlikely to get very sick. And the people they then infect? Well its not their issue so all is good.

I don't feel that way. First I am 67 years old. I suspect I would pull through, but that is a h*** I don't need. Keeping my housemate safe if I get sick? No, that is something I would not put money on and it is a given is that if he gets infected, he will not live. I don't need that on my conscience,

So, like a racing sailor, I will do my best to seek out "clean" air. (Even though we all know "dirty" air is faster for a cyclist.)

Ben
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Old 05-25-20, 01:20 PM
  #65  
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After two months of hard core compliance, I'm back to group rides.
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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Old 05-25-20, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
After two months of hard core compliance, I'm back to group rides.
I noticed a lot more group riders this weekend. I am still riding solo, but itís understandable that patience is wearing thin.
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Old 05-25-20, 03:06 PM
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This is a tough subject because of the scarcity of clearly reliable information, the difficulty of fairly weighing all kinds of risks, and the destructive hostile politicization of Covid issues.

I've been pushed by the Covid problem to work on alternatives for group riding. One big one that has been seriously helpful so far: intercom helmets. I'd only vaguely followed occasional things I saw in the past 2-3 years about some developments in bluetooth handsfree intercom helmets, but I did a fair bit of research and ended up coughing up with the jack to buy a pair of Sena R1 helmets at $129 each. Sena claimed a range of 1/2 mile, and the reviews on Amazon looked good, but I still had grave doubt about how well they'd work in the wind. Out here on the prairie we have plenty of wind. Well, dang, they worked pretty darn well in the wind. My friend and I did a 65-mile ride with a fair bit of wind, and we talked all the way just like we were sitting beside each other in a car, only we spent most of the time way apart, like 100-600 yards. It still felt like we were together on the ride, as we were seeing all the same things. I've now got five friends who also have these helmets, and we've had a bunch of rides with three of us along, all spread out. We haven't ridden with four of us yet, but these helmets will work with up to four riders. We've also done a couple of rides where two of us wore these helmets, and two other riders were along who didn't have them. That works well too.

I'm aiming to put together some small group rides with maybe 8-10 riders, with the group riding in well-separated pieces of 2-3 riders here and there, and using these helmets to help with communicating. If people get out of intercom range, they can still call each other through the helmets using their paired smartphones. Anyway, this is one way of trying to wangle some social riding without the Covid risk.

I have to say, actually, it's been a blast to, for the first time ever, be able to just carry on long conversations easily while riding, no need to be right beside each other, no need to yell, no dodging cars to talk. Shoot, we catch up on the movies we've been watching, everything.

I do want to mention that I saw a lot of posts up above that I thought were good, and I particularly liked posts by Merlinextraligh and 79pMooney. I can't find how to "like" a post - if someone wants to send me a private email to tell me how, I'd appreciate it.
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Old 05-25-20, 04:38 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post

Curious what folks think about resuming group rides.
Group rides have been going on here for the last month.
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Old 05-25-20, 07:09 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by prairieguy View Post
....
I do want to mention that I saw a lot of posts up above that I thought were good, and I particularly liked posts by Merlinextraligh and 79pMooney. I can't find how to "like" a post - if someone wants to send me a private email to tell me how, I'd appreciate it.
Hopefully even though you're a "newer," twice-posting forum member, you still have these buttons on the bottom right of each post:
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Old 05-25-20, 08:02 PM
  #70  
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For most people, no need to hide

Some of our government leaders would like us to hide under our covers and
wait for them to hold forth on when it is OK to come out.

If you are healthy and under 40 years old, you will be fine.
If you are healthy enough to ride a bike you are not sick and are not going to infect anyone.
Virus transmission outdoors is preposterously unlikely, unless you are kissing somebody.
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Old 05-25-20, 08:55 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by 2seven0 View Post
News flash: "Until it's safe" means NEVER!! I guess FDR was just a blithering fool to have opined that the only thing we had to fear was fear itself. Shake the fairy dust from your skirts and go out and live your life for crying out loud!
Land of the free and home of the brave????
I weep for the future of my country.
West
Originally Posted by 2seven0 View Post
Pithy insults notwithstanding, I'd like for anyone to refute my position with facts and common sense:
Is the Wuhan Virus (COVID-19) a hoax? No!!
Is it extremely dangerous if not deadly to a very small, very select segment of the population? Absolutely!
Should those people most vulnerable take whatever precautions they deem necessary for their safety? You betcha!
As for 99.99+% of the population to which the virus presents little to no risk whatsoever is the reaction far worse than the virus itself? Absolutely! Bankrupting thousands of businesses, leaving millions unemployed and plunging tens of millions of people worldwide into poverty will prove to be the greatest mistake modern man has made.
There is no reason healthy people with stout immune systems (as I suspect most on this forum are) should drastically alter their lifestyles. You're far more likely to be killed or injured riding your bike, driving a car, drowning etc. than dying from this virus. We all do things that aren't "safe" on a daily basis because we take steps to mitigate the risk.
Is this the first virus to infect mankind? No. Have there been deadlier viruses that a greater percentage of the population were at risk of getting? Yes. Did we react as we are now? No. Why not?
Have any of you contracted a communicable disease in your lifetime? I have! Guess what- I got sick then recovered! but I certainly didn't tiptoe around in fear wearing a mask everywhere! Or demand it of everyone else!
And society wasn't subjected to unconstitutional "lockdowns" by petty narcissistic fools either.

Please tell me where I'm wrong.
West
You're wrong: The "lockdowns" aren't unconstitutional.
You're wrong: it's not just a certain segment of the population that is likely to be harmed by the virus. Some are more at risk, but it's killed and made deathly ill people of all ages and physical statuses.
You're wrong, it's not the "wuhan virus" despite what political factions call it to gain some sort of political points. You're wrong to politicize this virus.
You're wrong: healthy people should indeed alter their lifestyles, not so much to protect themselves, but to participate in a meaningful public strategy (well within the constitutional authority of federal, state and local government) to protect others and avoid overloading the health care system. "Healthy people" with robust immune systems can indeed be infected unknowingly and therefore infect others.

You have no "right" or freedom to infect someone else, just as you have no right to pollute your neighbor's or public property with your septic runoff or noxious smoke from your fireplace, or to pollute anybody's body with the smoke from your burning tobacco. Just as you have o "right" to endanger other people by ignoring traffic safety laws, even if you feel you can do that safely - speeding, drinking, ignoring signals, etc. You have no right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater. You have a right to endanger yourself - for the most part - but not others.

The government can and will limit your "rights", constitutionally, in many ways.

Does that help?
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Old 05-25-20, 09:27 PM
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Old 05-25-20, 11:43 PM
  #73  
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healthcare system overloaded?

Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
You're wrong: The "lockdowns" aren't unconstitutional.
You're wrong: it's not just a certain segment of the population that is likely to be harmed by the virus. Some are more at risk, but it's killed and made deathly ill people of all ages and physical statuses.
You're wrong, it's not the "wuhan virus" despite what political factions call it to gain some sort of political points. You're wrong to politicize this virus.
You're wrong: healthy people should indeed alter their lifestyles, not so much to protect themselves, but to participate in a meaningful public strategy (well within the constitutional authority of federal, state and local government) to protect others and avoid overloading the health care system. "Healthy people" with robust immune systems can indeed be infected unknowingly and therefore infect others.

You have no "right" or freedom to infect someone else, just as you have no right to pollute your neighbor's or public property with your septic runoff or noxious smoke from your fireplace, or to pollute anybody's body with the smoke from your burning tobacco. Just as you have o "right" to endanger other people by ignoring traffic safety laws, even if you feel you can do that safely - speeding, drinking, ignoring signals, etc. You have no right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater. You have a right to endanger yourself - for the most part - but not others.

The government can and will limit your "rights", constitutionally, in many ways.

Does that help?
The hospitals here in South Florida are sending emails to customers trying to talk
them into coming in. They are begging for customers.

The situation in Missouri where I have family is similar. I have a family member who is a financial
advisor in MO. He told me his Doctor clients are taking early retirement because they
don't have anything to do.
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Old 05-26-20, 04:00 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Iím not going to be doing group rides anytime soon. In the draft you are literally in the aerosolized slipstream of the heavy breathing rider in front of you. Doing this for a two hour ride has the potential to expose you to a heavy viral load.

Conversely, riding by yourself, even with other cyclists and pedestrians around you, you may be exposed very briefly to micro droplets. But youíre moving past them quickly, and the odds of getting a viral load sufficient to cause infection are remote.

This fluid analysis indicates that if youíre following a bicycle at speed you may need to be 20 meters behind.

https://science4performance.com/tag/covid-19

I think thatís likely too extreme, but the point is the needed distance to be safe, eliminates any drafting effect, and would make a group ride of any size unmanageably long.
Your above referenced study is a joke.
A non peer reviewed theory based only on computer calculations performed by people in the aerodynamics field.
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Old 05-26-20, 04:11 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
You're wrong: The "lockdowns" aren't unconstitutional.
You're wrong: it's not just a certain segment of the population that is likely to be harmed by the virus. Some are more at risk, but it's killed and made deathly ill people of all ages and physical statuses.
You're wrong, it's not the "wuhan virus" despite what political factions call it to gain some sort of political points. You're wrong to politicize this virus.
You're wrong: healthy people should indeed alter their lifestyles, not so much to protect themselves, but to participate in a meaningful public strategy (well within the constitutional authority of federal, state and local government) to protect others and avoid overloading the health care system. "Healthy people" with robust immune systems can indeed be infected unknowingly and therefore infect others.

You have no "right" or freedom to infect someone else, just as you have no right to pollute your neighbor's or public property with your septic runoff or noxious smoke from your fireplace, or to pollute anybody's body with the smoke from your burning tobacco. Just as you have o "right" to endanger other people by ignoring traffic safety laws, even if you feel you can do that safely - speeding, drinking, ignoring signals, etc. You have no right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater. You have a right to endanger yourself - for the most part - but not others.

The government can and will limit your "rights", constitutionally, in many ways.

Does that help?
It is in fact the Wuhan Virus.
Or more commonly, the Chinese Virus.
It is not politicized.
Back in the day did you also rant against West Nile Virus, Zika, and Ebola?
So woke
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