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10 or 11 Speed? That is the Question

Old 10-14-19, 12:39 PM
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10 or 11 Speed? That is the Question

I知 looking to build my first Shimano equipped road bike. I知 using 135mm rim brake wheel. Shimano has lot痴 of really nice 130mm hubs in 11 speed. But not so many 135mm non-disc hubs in 11. Any suggestions or maybe a Shimano compatible hub. I知 not looking to break the bank so CK hubs are out for the near future.
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Old 10-15-19, 03:33 AM
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Bump.
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Old 10-15-19, 04:18 AM
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Since you say 135mm I assume you are talking about a cyclocross or touring or hybrid road bike.

Chris King pricing is steep, but you could look at White Industries to save a little or Hope to save even more.

If if you are considering 10 speed for your maximum # of cassette cogs, I think that there are lots of really affordable mountain bike hubs that are very high quality that will meet your requirements.

I built up a wheelset using an inexpensive NOS WTB Momentum Greaseguard hub set that I think I only paid no more than $45 for the hub set. I paired them with HED Belgium + rims and the result is really nice.

Also, Shimano XTR hubs can’t be beat. XTR M900 hubs can be found used affordably and have a build quality such that they will last a lifetime if well cared for. I can’t remember the exact XTR or Deore XT hub model numbers that come in 135mm (non-disc) but they are out there but becoming scarce in NOS.

If going with 11 speed and new, I think I would seriously look at the Hope Hubs. The decent pricing and the drilling and anodized color options would make it a lot of fun spec-ing a custom 135mm rim brake wheel build.

Last edited by masi61; 10-23-19 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 10-15-19, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
I知 looking to build my first Shimano equipped road bike. I知 using 135mm rim brake wheel. Shimano has lot痴 of really nice 130mm hubs in 11 speed. But not so many 135mm non-disc hubs in 11. Any suggestions or maybe a Shimano compatible hub. I知 not looking to break the bank so CK hubs are out for the near future.
Just get a disc hub and dont use the disc. It works perfectly fine. Centerlock hubs hide the disc option pretty well due to the design look.

There are tons of hubs- Hope and Bitex being a couple readily available brands, that are 142mm TA by default and can be easily converted to 135mm QR.
Or find some discontinued Shimano CX75 that are QR standard(though still centerlock).
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Old 10-15-19, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Just get a disc hub and dont use the disc.
I thought the same thing.
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Old 10-15-19, 04:51 PM
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"Just get a disc hub and dont use the disc."

This is exactly what I did earlier this year and it has worked out perfectly. Running a DT Swiss 350 hub with Shimano 11 speed cassette as a 10 speed by removing the 13 tooth sprocket, and Campy 11 speed brifters and derailleurs. The DT Swiss 350 hub can be converted to 11 speed if you must have all 11 sprockets back there, but I find it is not necessary, and quite honestly not needed.

I also believe the extra 5mm axle spacing allows a better wheel to be built as the spoke tension of the two sides of the wheel are more equal than with 130 spacing. That is what I experienced when I built the wheel.

Last edited by TiHabanero; 10-15-19 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 10-16-19, 01:33 AM
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Personally I don't think I'd be buying 10-speed stuff now. Not because there's anything wrong with it but a year or two down the line, when stuff, starts to wear out, it gets hard to find the right replacement parts.
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Old 10-16-19, 02:45 AM
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A few months ago I was looking at hubs tor a new wheelset for my touring bike. The LBS has a set of XT centerlock hubs that came with a rubber plug to go over the centerlock splines to streamline the look when used on a non disc bike.

i ended up reusing the stock Deore hubs.
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Old 10-17-19, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jgwilliams View Post
Personally I don't think I'd be buying 10-speed stuff now. Not because there's anything wrong with it but a year or two down the line, when stuff, starts to wear out, it gets hard to find the right replacement parts.
Currently at 10speed or lower for road components is Tiagra, Sora, Claris, and Tourney. Those arent all going to suddenly go to 11sp or disappear in the next year or two.
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Old 10-17-19, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Currently at 10speed or lower for road components is Tiagra, Sora, Claris, and Tourney. Those arent all going to suddenly go to 11sp or disappear in the next year or two.
I guess it depends how far ahead you're looking. I'm speaking from personal experience as someone who tends to keep his stuff going quite a long time. I recently had a 2000 Campag brifter fail. Although Campag did still make 9-speed brifters they had changed the pull ratio so I ended up having to change the brifter and the rear derailleur.
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Old 10-17-19, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jgwilliams View Post
Personally I don't think I'd be buying 10-speed stuff now. Not because there's anything wrong with it but a year or two down the line, when stuff, starts to wear out, it gets hard to find the right replacement parts.
? You can still get 7, 8, 9 speed gear.
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Old 10-17-19, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jgwilliams View Post
Personally I don't think I'd be buying 10-speed stuff now. Not because there's anything wrong with it but a year or two down the line, when stuff, starts to wear out, it gets hard to find the right replacement parts.
You can still buy Ultegra 9 speed cassettes.
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Old 10-17-19, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
I知 looking to build my first Shimano equipped road bike. I知 using 135mm rim brake wheel. Shimano has lot痴 of really nice 130mm hubs in 11 speed. But not so many 135mm non-disc hubs in 11. Any suggestions or maybe a Shimano compatible hub. I知 not looking to break the bank so CK hubs are out for the near future.
What range cassette are you planning on running? If it has a large enough large cog, then an 11 speed Shimano style "mountain" cassette will work on an 8/9/10 speed hub.
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Old 10-17-19, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jgwilliams View Post
Personally I don't think I'd be buying 10-speed stuff now. Not because there's anything wrong with it but a year or two down the line, when stuff, starts to wear out, it gets hard to find the right replacement parts.
I went through that with 8 speed.
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Old 10-17-19, 05:57 PM
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Some 11 speed cassettes can be run on 10 speed freehubs
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Old 10-17-19, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Just get a disc hub and dont use the disc. It works perfectly fine. Centerlock hubs hide the disc option pretty well due to the design look.

There are tons of hubs- Hope and Bitex being a couple readily available brands, that are 142mm TA by default and can be easily converted to 135mm QR.
Or find some discontinued Shimano CX75 that are QR standard(though still centerlock).
I did this on the last set of wheels that I built, I used some rims that had a machined rim brake surface on it. This set of rims is for my touring bike and future rim brake touring bike.
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Old 10-17-19, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
"Just get a disc hub and dont use the disc."


I also believe the extra 5mm axle spacing allows a better wheel to be built as the spoke tension of the two sides of the wheel are more equal than with 130 spacing. That is what I experienced when I built the wheel.
I had the same experience, there was less dish and I was able to use the same spoke lengths on both sides, this is for the rear wheel, the front wheel had a little dish to it.
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Old 10-18-19, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
You can still buy Ultegra 9 speed cassettes.
Yes, and you can still get Campag 9-speed cassettes. What I couldn't get was spare parts to repair my 9-speed brifter and the newer ones were no longer compatible. So for want of a little spring (apparently) I ended up having to replace the brifters and rear derailleur.

As it happens, I was eventually directed to Merlin Cycles who apparently have a bin full of old Campag spares and were able to fix it for me. But it was a long trail to get there.
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Old 10-18-19, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jgwilliams View Post
Yes, and you can still get Campag 9-speed cassettes. What I couldn't get was spare parts to repair my 9-speed brifter and the newer ones were no longer compatible. So for want of a little spring (apparently) I ended up having to replace the brifters and rear derailleur.

As it happens, I was eventually directed to Merlin Cycles who apparently have a bin full of old Campag spares and were able to fix it for me. But it was a long trail to get there.
Was that an issue of it being 9 speed, or simply it being an older model? I would think it is the latter.

Even if you buy 11 speed, if the particular model you buy goes out of production (such as when that particular group moves to 12 speed or simply gets an update and remains 11) you are still in the same boat if you need a replacement part like a spring.
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Old 10-18-19, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Was that an issue of it being 9 speed, or simply it being an older model?
Combination of both. The fact that it was old meant I had trouble sourcing a spare part but the real issue was that Campag had changed the pull ratio of their nine-speed shifters so I couldn't simply buy new brifters and expect it to work with the old stuff. You could say that this, too, was because it's old but my argument is that this sort of thing is more likely to happen sooner with 10-speed - which is surely based on previous top-of-the-range models, than with the current generation. Of course, you could get lucky and it will always remain compatible, but you might not.

I suppose, too, that if you aren't buying top-of-the-range then you probably don't care so much if you just have to chuck it away and replace it. Simply relaying my own experience.
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Old 10-18-19, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jgwilliams View Post
Combination of both. The fact that it was old meant I had trouble sourcing a spare part but the real issue was that Campag had changed the pull ratio of their nine-speed shifters so I couldn't simply buy new brifters and expect it to work with the old stuff. You could say that this, too, was because it's old but my argument is that this sort of thing is more likely to happen sooner with 10-speed - which is surely based on previous top-of-the-range models, than with the current generation. Of course, you could get lucky and it will always remain compatible, but you might not.

I suppose, too, that if you aren't buying top-of-the-range then you probably don't care so much if you just have to chuck it away and replace it. Simply relaying my own experience.
Sorry, not to drag out the point too long, but why would a company be any less likely to make changes in the future to 11 speed than to 9 or 10 speed?
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Old 10-18-19, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jgwilliams View Post
I guess it depends how far ahead you're looking. I'm speaking from personal experience as someone who tends to keep his stuff going quite a long time. I recently had a 2000 Campag brifter fail. Although Campag did still make 9-speed brifters they had changed the pull ratio so I ended up having to change the brifter and the rear derailleur.
We know how far ahead we are looking here because you said 'a year or two down the line', so you set the parameters for how far ahead to look. I simply responded with actual information that should clearly change your mind.

As for your 19 year old shifters breaking- they are 19 year old shifters...stuff breaks man. For how long do you expect companies to provide replacement parts? I would say 19 years is past the reasonable period for a company to hold onto dozens of tiny bits in the off chance that someone needs one.
And this is coming from a guy who loves riding older frames and older tech. The bike I rode to work on this morning is a 3x9 drivetrain with a crank and cantilever brakes from the late 80s.
When a plastic dust cover on my cantilever brakes finally breaks, I am not going to complain that SunTour/DiaCompe doesnt still carry that piece.
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Old 10-18-19, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
We know how far ahead we are looking here because you said 'a year or two down the line', so you set the parameters for how far ahead to look. I simply responded with actual information that should clearly change your mind.

As for your 19 year old shifters breaking- they are 19 year old shifters...stuff breaks man. For how long do you expect companies to provide replacement parts? I would say 19 years is past the reasonable period for a company to hold onto dozens of tiny bits in the off chance that someone needs one.
And this is coming from a guy who loves riding older frames and older tech. The bike I rode to work on this morning is a 3x9 drivetrain with a crank and cantilever brakes from the late 80s.
When a plastic dust cover on my cantilever brakes finally breaks, I am not going to complain that SunTour/DiaCompe doesnt still carry that piece.
Yes, except that I didn't say it broke this year. I can't remember when it was but it was a while back. And I was also more complaining about the fact that newer parts were no longer compatible although I can see that I didn't make that clear.
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Old 10-19-19, 07:00 PM
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11spd is pretty established. Go 1X11 get a Dura-Ace chain
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Old 10-20-19, 07:39 AM
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Shimano will be offering 12 speed soon. The have to, since campy and sram both have it. 11 speed hubs will most likely not be 12 speed compatible. Campy hubs are 9-12 speed compatible and can even be converted to an XDR driver to work with sram 12.

The new Chorus 12 groupset is very reasonably priced.
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