Swift Joe

Hello all, first post. I just got an old Nishiki Modulus with a rough BB and I'm working to bring it back to life. In my research about servicing the BB, I have seen several internet folks suggesting to toss the bearing cages. I'm interested in the idea, and I can see from an engineering standpoint how cageless might be beneficial. But it's left me wondering.. If caged bearings are so undesirable, why did the manufactures install them in the first place?

I'm usually one to trust the manufacturer, so I wanted to get a little insight on this before I make a final decision.

eschlwc

using the retainers allows for a quicker installation.

removing the retainers allows you to use two additional balls on each side, spreading the load even more.

many people remove the retainers, either to spread the load or to continue to use a slightly damaged bb cup that has become indexed with use.

if it's a keeper, i remove the retainers and add four balls.

if it's a flip, i use the retainers, because it's so much easier to rebuild. and i save four bearings.

RobbieTunes

'cause the free range bearings kept rolling under the car.

lasauge 

The advantage to caged bearings is that they are easier, simpler, and faster to work with than loose ones. The difference in efficiency and bearing wear lost by using caged bearings is very slight, so for most riders and applications there's nothing noticeably lost by using them in place of loose bearings.

Also, welcome to the forum!

OldsCOOL

Which is lighter?

Wileyone 

Your Funny.

Swift Joe

You're all great, thank you. My inclination was what some of you said- I'm sure it was faster manufacturing to toss in caged bearings vs having them loose. I'll order some new bearings and give the free-range arrangement a try.

Swift Joe

OldsCool, whichever it is, it must be negligible. Or is that the point of your retort?

Swift Joe

eschlwc, definitely a keeper. Thanks for the advice.

Swift Joe

RobbieTunes, I'll order some extra to compensate for the ones that get away; same as the free range chicken farmers do I believe.

top506

I overhauled a customers old Fuji Absolute today. The BB came out in a slurry of rust, water, and dead grease. Loose balls. When I got to the headset I prayed that they had used caged bearings. Thankfully, they had.

Top

bikemig 

The better quality BB caged bearings has 11 to a side.

jefnvk

As one that currently works in the auto industry, I'll side with those that said because of ease of manufacturing.

If people really understood what gets done to save something as simple as a couple seconds on the assembly line, they'd be shocked.

T-Mar

+1. Caged bearings are a massive time (and profit) saver. The slight increase in cost of a caged bearing is more than offset by the savings in reduced labour cost. Another, often overlooked factor is the savings in consumables, specifically grease. Loose bearings require a uniform, relatively thick coating in order to adequately hold the bearings in place for assembly. Caged bearings can be assembled without any grease and most manufacturers use barely adequate amounts, as I'm sure many of you have found out. With typical mass volume manufacturers exceeding hundreds of thousands of units per year, the cost savings are substantial.

jimmuller 

"All-natural, organic, Martian-raised bearings. You don't hear that everyday." - Mark Watney

rootboy 

I remember once, when I was new here, asking about caged bearings. Everyone said to get rid of them and replace with loose balls. Then I mentioned they were original Campagnolo Record caged bearings. And more than one person said...oh, in that case, use them. What I garnered from that is that not all caged bearings are created equal. I tend to still use caged bearings on my Record-equipped bikes.

verktyg 

Bearing retainers were used to reduce bike assembly time. It's a lot easier and faster to install headsets and BBs using caged bearings.

Many bike makers used bearing cages with low bearing counts which had to have saved massive amounts of money!!!

Some Campy BB cages have 11 1/4" ball bearings instead of the standard 9 balls used in most cages! I've used them occasionally myself.

There's a very small surface contact area between the balls and the bearing tracks in BB cups and spindles. 11 balls distribute the forces much better than 9 so you can expect longer bearing life.




Bottom bracket bearings rotate and so the balls are always changing contact points. There's not much downside to using cages with 11 balls except for the unknown quality of the ball bearings used in many cages.


Headset are a different story. They're thrust bearings and distribute only a very small amount of rotational force. When riding at normal speeds the front wheel only rotates a few degrees side to side.

The two primary forces that headsets encounter are 1. vertical impact and vibration from the front wheel and... 2. front to back rocking or flexing action of the lower part of the steerer which causes elongated or oval shaped wear and indentations in the bottom cup and fork crown race.

The misused, misunderstood terms - brinnelling, false brinnelling, fretting, indexing, spalling and so on are just guesses without lab testing of the failed bearing surfaces. I use the term "indentations" to describe regularly spaced damage to the ball tracks in headsets.

Headsets need a slight amount of pre-load. Bearings that are too tight will cause micro chipping resulting in indentations. Headsets that are too loose cause indentations from repeated impacts, especially in low priced headsets that are not through hardened steel.

BTW, I've rarely seen indentations in upper headset races.

Since there is very little rotation in headsets, cages tend to keep the balls in the same area all of the time, increasing the chance of wear and indentations, especially ones with low ball bearing count.

Quality Grade 25 Chrome Steel balls are cheap - if you shop around. I always use a full compliment balls when I assemble a headset. They distribute the forces better.

I use lots of heavy, viscous grease to keep the balls in place during assembly. It helps keep dust, dirt and water out too.

Needle or tapered roller bearings are a better solution for headsets. The old Stronglight A9 and B10 headsets with needle bearings are bullet proof!

verktyg

Chas.

bikemig 

Stronglight A9 headsets were great.

Suntour also had cages with 11 on a side. I use cages with 11 on a side on the fixed cup and loose ball bearings on the adjustable cup. Speeds things up a bit.

JohnDThompson 

True enough.

Not necessarily:

The Golden Boy 

To be fair, there are people who actually believe that cutting tags off clothing and removing "extra" stitching makes a difference.

rando_couche

...along with cartridge bearings, 2-piece hollow-bb cranks, single-chainring drivetrains and other "performance improvements".

SP
OC, OR

MKahrl

Caged bearings are still pretty handy in bottom brackets for the owner. We usually repack wheel bearings while the wheel is off the bike and lying horizontal where we can drop the bearings into our doughnut of grease where they'll stay put until we get the cone in place. Headset bearings are also horizontal and easier to access.

Bottom brackets are often oriented on their side while the bike is in an upright position. You also have to access the fixed cup through the bottom bracket shell to apply grease and place ball bearings. It's easier to fill the caged balls up with a lot of grease before passing it over to the fixed side versus placing all the balls individually.

In my experience bottom brackets don't wear out if they're kept adjusted and maintained. Water intrusion and loose alignment are the greatest enemy.

eschlwc

yeah, i've never come across an 11-bearing retainer in 1/4" size.

Spaghetti Legs 

Fat fingers ----> Caged bearings

JohnDThompson 

Campagnolo has used them for decades, and you can get generic ones as well, e.g.:

Bike Tools Etc. - 1000's of bicycle tools and parts for the home mechanic!