ZMC888

I'm a high mileage cyclist and ride well over 10,000 miles a year on a fleet on different bikes. I do probably 8000 miles on my main bike including on average 4-5 Gran Fondos a month and back packing etc. My current bikes all have threaded BBs.

I'm in love with the idea of adding a shiny new bike to my collection in the spring. A Trek Emonda, not sure which model depending on finances but many bikes have PF BBs. I'm particularly wary of PF30, but also a bit leery of even Shimano press fit offerings.

So my questions for very high mileage riders that use PF BBs....

If you do a high mileage how many miles before you get through a BB?
Do you/can do the work yourself with your own tools?
Do you regret buying a bike with a PF BB?
How much does a workshop charge you for changing the BB?
If you were living or travelling/touring in a developing country would you even consider have a bike with a PF BB?

I don't race so I don't really need the minimal weight and arguable stiffness marginal gains from a PF BB, I just like the rest of the bikes they are attached to. I'm also not saying a threaded BB is immune to failure, it's just they are so cheap and easy to order and fit and last for a long time.

smarkinson

You can get the tools and replace them yourself. Although the tools are very bulky so you wouldn't want to be carrying them around toruing. It's not really that difficult to do. I replaced mine a while ago, maybe had 20,000 miles on them, due mainly to concern about water that might have got into them rather than wear and tear.

You need one tool to remove the cups and a different one to press the new cups back in. In a pinch (ie in the middle of nowhere in a developing country, I wouldn't recommend this for normal use) I'm sure a hammer and a screwdriver could get them out and the ever useful hammer and a block of wood could reinstall them which would compare favourably with threaded where you would always need the correct tool.

With the tools it's dead easy but when reinstalling you need to be careful to get the cover in the middle lined up correctly to avoid crushing it (it's just plastic). There are a number of youtube videos that demonstrate installing a PF BB. Or this article from park tools: Bottom Bracket Service: PF30 | Park Tool

I'd prefer threaded BB but the fact is they are a rare beast nowadays and most bikes seem to come with pressfit. I think, mainly because they provide a wider BB shell to attach chain stays, seat and down tubes.

ZMC888

Thanks for your input. 20,000 miles on a PF30? That's impressive. Reassuring.

Merida have some threaded BB carbon offerings and there are some fairly nice ti frames with threaded BBs.

Also the multi Tour de France winning Pinarello Dogma has an Italian threaded BB. So the industry argument that PF is better is clearly untrue.

SCRcat6

:

motorthings

you could get a Chris King PF30 and the greasing tool, so you would be able to inject fresh grease easily. I only have about 5k on mine, but that is 2x what I had on the stock SRAM PF30 BB before it started making noise.

ZMC888

It would seem that it is most likely I'll end up with BB86 or BB90. I'm thinking about conversion options too.

dr_lha

I don't ride as high mileage as you, but I put over 6000 miles on a BB30 BB bike before I sold it.
In 6000 miles the BB30 was replaced due to creaking and clicking 3 times.
Yes.
Yes, and I won't own one again. Threaded BBs for me have been hassle free for years, I'd never actually replaced a BB before in my life before getting a BB30 bike. I have a 18 year old Specialized in my Garage that has it's original non-name cartridge BB in it that spins smoothly still.
About $80.
Nope.

Hiro11

This is among the top factors for me in considering a frame. I've seen too many issues, heard to much creaking and talked to too many mechanics to consider a frame with a PF BB.

ZMC888

Very interesting.
Was suspecting this report would be quite common. I've already basically decided not to ever by a PF30 bike, but I'm still on the fence with Shimano's press-fit offerings, I know they make solid stuff.

dr_lha

Shimano's system seems like the worst of all worlds to me, because it's only compatible with Shimano cranksets, and press fit. It seems to be the most poorly supported of all the standards. EDIT: Also unlike other pressfit BBs, if you decide it sucks, you can't just fix it with a PraxisWorks BB.

Compare that to BB30 which turns out to be have the benefit of being able to take pretty much any modern crankset standard. Hell, you can even put in an insert that turns a BB30 into a regular BSA threaded bottom bracket!

Honestly, I struggle to see the benefits that press fit BBs give to riders who don't care about weight. I had a chance to play with a new very high-end Roubaix the other day and noticed that Specialized went back to a threaded BB on it, so apparently the industry is moving back to threaded BBs also.

cyclozone

Hi I've got an Emonda with PF86 (or PF86.5 in Trek speak). So far I haven't had any creaking issues even when climbing out of the saddle. Nevertheless, if the issue does occur, one can always get a BB from Wheels Manufacturing which come with Aluminium cups which should help solve the creaking issue. Replacement of the bearings is also easier with one of those.
https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-brackets/bb86-92/bb86-92-bottom-brackets.html

smarkinson

Sorry I didn't specify. It was a shimano pressfit, not a PF30. I think it's PF86 for shimano?

deacon mark

The first requirement of any bike I buy is a threaded BB. I am not a mechanic for a living but I am a good wrench and wheel builder no press fit for me. Could be my next bike will have to be steel or TI which I am considering.

rpenmanparker 

Do I understand you correctly? Are you, in fact, saying that because a PF BB doesn't ALWAYS beat a threaded BB in the TDF, it is necessarily inferior in all respects to the threaded assembly? Is that what you are actually saying?

ZMC888

No, I'm saying that neither a PFBB or a threaded BB is superior in terms of a race situation.

However I keep hearing creaking horror stories and such other things. My first instinct was to totally reject ANY bike with a PF BB. But then I keep hearing of people extremely happy with their PF BB bikes and some with over 20,000 miles on on PF30 as above.

rpenmanparker 

Mine is fine. Not high mileage but so far no issues. I installed the PF30 bearings with Loctite 609 and Loctite primer. I don't expect any creaking.

joejack951

Hence why my new frame is BB30 even though I hear rumblings that press-fit systems are going out of vogue. I have no fear that a properly press-fitted pair of bearings will be problem-free, or failing a proper press fit, that a properly Loctited pair of bearings will be problem-free. While 'threaded bottom brackets' may thread into the frame, the bearings are still press-fit into the threaded cartridge or cups. BB30 eliminates those extra parts so, to me, having no experience with it all, sounds like the best evolution of a bottom bracket. We'll see.

dr_lha

I agree on paper it sounds good. My experience was not so positive. Good luck and used the advice given here and elsewhere to make it work.

rpenmanparker 

It is well established that Loctite installation works. It is inexplicable why many bike assemblers and LBSs refuse to use this proven technique. Would you not grease threads? So why not use Loctite as recommended? Same thing. Follow the directions.

ZMC888

I have a suspicion and it's that PF bearings are going to go out of fashion. First all the gravel, CX, and endurance bikes will all go back to threaded, but I think some of the racier carbon offerings and TT bikes, PF will hang about longer.

For every person I hear about with no problem and long mileage I hear another tale of woe. But with peoples' tendency to complain more than praise I suspect that there's 30% chance of creak city before 2000 miles, and with no tools and very precise installation tolerances make me very wary, especially when you consider I live in mainland China. I think I might just buy a Ti frame and change over parts, and spend the extra money on a power meter and ceramic bearings.

I have maybe 10 bikes in two countries with threaded BBs (mostly Shimano, but a couple of SRAM) and I end up changing one a year or so, so they are far from perfect BUT they are so damn easy to change, to find spares, I already have the tool, cheap to buy and to upgrade to a better machined or ceramic BB.

I'm not saying a definite no to press fit especially if I can get some kind of solid reliable conversion with a bike at point of sale, but I'm now looking at Spec more than Trek.

HazeT

Is it easy to remove later, without destroying either the BB or the frame?

scott967

I pulled a SRAM PF30 at 10,000 miles but it was toast. Had to break down and have the shop dremel out the DS cup. A couple times I had noise but always fixed by removing cranks and regreasing them. I did remove the bearing seals and greased them (while installed) around 4,000 miles. Now I have the WM screw-together alloy PF30 installed (used grease with alloy shell as per WM instructions). No problem so far. Very easy install (uses shimano BB wrench). In sum I guess I have no particular problem with PF30 but won't let it go 10k miles again without removing the cups. I wouldn't go out of my way looking for PF30 in a new bike, though I now have a Red 22 BB30 crankset so I guess I'm kind of locked in unless I want to ditch the cranks.

scott s.
.

ZMC888

So it's almost exactly like a conventional threaded BB with external bearings but instead of threading to the frame it threads to itself, on the bike it looks just like a threaded BB? Doesn't sound too bad.

kc0bbq

Why would removing bearings mounted with a compound designed specifically for the purpose destroy the frame? Loctite is a brand, not a single product.

rpenmanparker 

I honestly don't know how removal of a PF30 BB works. Do you just push out the bearings and leave the cups installed to receive the new bearings? Or do you have to get the Loctited cups out too to make way for a whole new PF30 BB? Can't say. The frame is safe, and there is really nothing about the BB to destroy except the bearing cartridges or the whole PF30 loaded cups, which is most likely what you are replacing anyway.