Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Tyre Choice - - Would It Have Made A Difference?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Tyre Choice - - Would It Have Made A Difference?

Old 08-05-19, 06:18 PM
  #51  
GeogreHudetz
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by literal trope View Post
I absolutely disagree with "In gravel you need to do the opposite - make sure you know is exactly what is going on right in front of you while keeping in mind the overall trail with the occasional glance up."
Fair enough - I'll agree that I overstated things a bit in my original post. But I do find that my road instincts - in terms of trusting the quality of the surface - don't serve me well on gravel. But then perhaps I've always been overly trusting of pavement quality.
GeogreHudetz is offline  
Old 08-05-19, 07:04 PM
  #52  
FiftySix
I'm the anecdote.
 
FiftySix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: S.E. Texas
Posts: 992

Bikes: Norco CityGlide, Schwinn "Speedster" Willy

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 520 Post(s)
Liked 318 Times in 239 Posts
Originally Posted by Witterings View Post

I was riding with Vittoria Voyager Hyers which are pretty slick down a paved farm track and as we turned into what becomes more of a "gravelly" road .... as it's been a dry summer here there was a fine layer of dirt and my front wheel just went and I was down before I could blink.

Originally Posted by literal trope View Post

Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
I got some pics of where I went down .... you'll see how loose a surface it is but knowing this is exactly what I don't brake or turn hard into and only approach at a slow speed. The only thing I did notice was some slight drops and I wonder if the tyre was half way up one of those which started the movement to drop to the bottom and it just kept going ... that's just me trying to 2nd guess it though.







Those tires* sure mean you can't lean hard or touch the brakes wrong in loose dirt and ball bearing sized rocks. I mentioned wet steel plate in another thread, well that there piece of road is the rural equivalent with those near slick tires.

Suspension would have helped your tires follow the pot-hole like situation, but that's a different machine. Tires with a deep tread pattern would have helped bite through the loose dirt. Even so, if you stop pedaling and your weight shifts to your seat, now the bike feels your weight high instead of low. Keeping weight on the pedals, or even standing on them, would help your bike feel your weight low and allow your legs to act as suspension.

IMO, off-road riding time would help in understanding some of this. Back in my motorcycle days I started on road bikes, but I really learned how to ride when I rode off-road.

*Whats the tread depth on those things, 0.5mm?

Last edited by FiftySix; 08-06-19 at 09:22 AM. Reason: typo after typo, etc. etc.
FiftySix is offline  
Old 08-05-19, 07:10 PM
  #53  
Dirt Farmer
Senior Member
 
Dirt Farmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Madison, Wi.
Posts: 1,086

Bikes: Jamis Quest Elite; Fuji Sagres; Trek Fuel EX 8

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 298 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 16 Posts
Gravel, wet leaves, and wet wooden planks/boardwalks. It'll happen to most everyone once, regardless of tire.
Dirt Farmer is offline  
Likes For Dirt Farmer:
Old 08-05-19, 07:31 PM
  #54  
smashndash
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 567

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Allez Sprint Comp

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 357 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Tire compound and tread can help reduce the risk of common road hazards -- thin layers of sand and pebbles on turns, etc.


Tire pressure matters too. Whenever a road bike ride turns onto gravel I'll stop and bleed out some tire pressure. I weigh 150 lbs so I can ride pretty low pressure without pinch flatting. Reducing 700x23 or 700x25 tires from 100-120 psi to 80-90 (lower on the front tire) helps on gravel and slick roads.
I second specialized tires - I felt a massive difference going from new Pirelli P Zeros to 3 year old, cracked up, Specialized Turbo Pros. I shaved a 40 seconds off my best time on a 13 minute descent (5 attempts).

I think most people run their pressures too high, though. At 145lbs, I run 40-55psi front, 50-65psi rear in 25mm tires. Any more and I start feeling slower. In a wet crit, I would go as low as 35 front. This obviously increases your chance of pinching or breaking a rim if you seriously screw up, but if that's not a valid reason to pump your tires up rock hard if you want to go fast imo - otherwise we'd all be running solid rubber tires. Feel free to call me a kook for running these pressures, but the amount of cornering confidence at 40psi is huge compared to even 60. I can't even imagine running 80 anymore - forget 100.

Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Getting slammed to the ground in a millisecond sounds exactly like too much front brake on a road with poor surface condition.
Poor surface conditions, sure. Front brake, not necessarily. My front tire suddenly slid out while cornering in a glass-smooth parking lot. I was barely pushing it. I'm surprised that most people say the rear slides first or they get a progressive one or two wheel slide when overcooking a corner - I've experienced neither. I think I was running a fatter rear tire at the time so maybe that had something to do with it.
smashndash is offline  
Old 08-06-19, 12:31 AM
  #55  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,892

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 176 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3066 Post(s)
Liked 420 Times in 299 Posts
That's some of the most treacherous stuff many of us will encounter on bicycle or motorcycle rides, precisely because it doesn't look particularly dangerous. It's not quite pavement, not quite gravel. I've fallen and nearly fallen on stuff like that many times on motorcycles and bicycles when I was younger and more reckless. Fortunately I bounced back then with only scrapes and embedded grit to show for my utter lack of skill.

Taking the inside of the camber can help. Get on the wrong side and you're almost sure to loose traction at any speed above 10 mph.

And that's one reason why my favorite all around tire is the Continental Speed Ride, a bargain priced tire with soft, grippy yet durable diamond/file main tread, and vestigial side knobbies that only come into play on grass. It's basically Conti's fatter, consumer grade version of their dry conditions cyclocross tire. Handle that typical kind of rural road very calmly.

Alas, it's not available in anything but 700x42 (nominal, actual size is closer to 700x38). Pretty much for hybrids and drop bar bikes with plenty of clearance in the forks, stays and brake bridges. There are a few other brand tires with similar tread design in 700x32 on up -- Donnelly (formerly Clement), the Challenge Gravel Grinder, even a couple from Kenda. Check 'em out, see if one fits your bike. Run 'em as soft as you dare for rides on those roads. It'll help restore your confidence.

On my road bikes, I slow way down when approaching turns, corners and curves like that. I don't bounce anymore.

Take care, do your physical therapy and stretches. It'll help. If you have residual pain after the opiate prescription meds run out, check out CBD if it's legal in your area. The full spectrum high potency works really well. No side effects, so I'll take it before or during bike rides, no problems. I'm fine for 20-30 miles but beyond that my old injuries flare up -- neck, shoulder, back -- and NSAIDs don't help much.

Most topical analgesic balms don't help much either, but I'm giving Ted's Pain Cream a second chance. The theory is the topical resveratrol (from grapes and Japanese knotweed) and MSM transdermal carrier penetrates the skin just enough to "reset" the stuck pain receptors on otherwise healed injuries. I still have some ultra-tender places on my neck, shoulder and scapula so I'm giving it another two-week trial to see if it helps. And PT. And a chiropractor.

Getting old sucks with injuries. But I can't quit riding.

Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
I got some pics of where I went down .... you'll see how loose a surface it is but knowing this is exactly what I don't brake or turn hard into and only approach at a slow speed. The only thing I did notice was some slight drops and I wonder if the tyre was half way up one of those which started the movement to drop to the bottom and it just kept going ... that's just me trying to 2nd guess it though.









Looking back the other way towards the direction I'd come from.
canklecat is offline  
Old 08-06-19, 12:46 AM
  #56  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,892

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 176 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3066 Post(s)
Liked 420 Times in 299 Posts
BTW, @Witterings, if your helmet hit the deck, get a new one. It did its job.

After witnessing a horrific crash during a large group ride in July I went shopping for a second helmet. The guy's right side of his head smacked the pavement, then he slid headfirst at 20+ mph into a curb. Crushed the helmet in the occipital region -- rear to one side. Caught it all on video, but I haven't shown it to him. Too stressful while he's recuperating.

I have a Bell Formula MIPS that's very good -- excellent attention to detail, reasonably lightweight and well ventilated, and comfortable. Really a bargain at around $70 US -- it looks like a much more expensive helmet. But I've always worried it doesn't cover quite low enough along the occipital region.

After shopping around and trying everything I could find, I got a POC Omne Air Spin. It's basically a well ventilated, lighter weight version of those hipster skater/commuter helmets that are so poorly ventilated and look like bowling balls. But POC got it right. It's much better ventilated and cooler than my Bell, with vents that scoop air across my scalp -- I have long, thick hair and I can feel air rushing across my head even in hot, humid Texas summer. The EPS foam is thicker than most, especially in the back, and it covers lower around the ears and occipital region. POC's "SPIN" is just a simplified variation of MIPS, to allow the helmet to deflect while the harness grips the skull and keeps the helmet in place. Dunno if POC's SPIN works but MIPS definitely does (I was konked on the noggin by a railroad crossing arm a few months ago and the Bell did the job).

A couple of drawbacks to the POC. The thicker EPS somewhat obscures my forward view when I'm in the drops -- it doesn't block my view of the road, but there's an overhang above my brow that's noticeable. A minor nit, but worth mentioning. It's a little heavier than my Bell helmets. The "Y" harness strap is not adjustable for length around the ears -- I had to scoot the Y harness doodad forward a bit to relieve pressure under my ear lobe. It's fine now. The chin strap length is conventionally adjustable. But folks who prefer to pull the Y harness way down toward their jaws, away from their ears, will find the POC to be unusual.

Anyway, POC makes good if pricey skull shaped styrofoam beer coolers. Probably a little better protection than some. The Omne Air Spin doesn't look quite as odd and bulky as the Octal. It'll be my casual riding helmet now. I might consider another POC for my road bikes if I can find one without the brow overhang.
canklecat is offline  
Old 08-06-19, 01:19 AM
  #57  
Witterings
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Witterings, West Sussex
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by literal trope View Post
Seriously? That's it?

I didn't need any more confirmation but this is truly the icing on the fail cake.
I queried earlier about you having such strong opinions for a newbie or whether you were a banned user that had created a different username and you didn't respond .... I'm guessing that's probably because you were previously banned ????
Witterings is offline  
Old 08-06-19, 07:57 AM
  #58  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,892

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 176 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3066 Post(s)
Liked 420 Times in 299 Posts
Check your Edit Ignore List options. It's a good thing.
canklecat is offline  
Old 08-06-19, 07:58 AM
  #59  
Lemond1985
Sophomore Member
 
Lemond1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,938
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1142 Post(s)
Liked 449 Times in 302 Posts
Probably already been said, but that gravel over the pavement is the problem, it tends to cause a "ball bearing effect" while cornering over it. And I would imagine those little rocks get run over multiple times a day, to the point where many are close to perfectly round. I've slid out on similar corners countless times, by leaning too much when the traction isn't there.
Lemond1985 is offline  
Old 08-06-19, 08:11 AM
  #60  
Witterings
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Witterings, West Sussex
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by canklecat View Post

And that's one reason why my favorite all around tire is the Continental Speed Ride, a bargain priced tire with soft, grippy yet durable diamond/file main tread, and vestigial side knobbies that only come into play on grass.
Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
BTW, @Witterings, if your helmet hit the deck, get a new one. It did its job.
My 29er that I lent the guy behind me and was the other person that fell has Conti Speed Rides On It .... He went because he braked to avoid hitting me .... maybe if those were on my gravel bike instead I may not gone over but we'll never know .... I have switched tyres on it back to my GK - SK's though for now and yes I will definitely get a new helmet.

@literal trope You're green light was on so I guess you've seen my 2nd comment about being banned but still no reply .... I've had a few PM's from other members saying you've been banned under different usernames a few times (they even kindly listed some of them) so it seems you may be a serial offender ... ever thought about the reason why you're getting banned???
Witterings is offline  
Old 08-06-19, 08:52 AM
  #61  
63rickert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,275
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 595 Post(s)
Liked 72 Times in 57 Posts
Of course tires make a difference. Choosing the perfect tire for each inch of your ride is not possible. What is possible is trying lots of tires and paying attention and learning something as you go. Also spend some time and effort experimenting with inflation pressure. In my mind every mentioned pressure is way too high. But what do I know? Test for yourself.
63rickert is offline  
Old 08-06-19, 09:00 AM
  #62  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,892

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 176 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3066 Post(s)
Liked 420 Times in 299 Posts
Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
My 29er that I lent the guy behind me and was the other person that fell has Conti Speed Rides On It .... He went because he braked to avoid hitting me .... maybe if those were on my gravel bike instead I may not gone over but we'll never know .... I have switched tyres on it back to my GK - SK's though for now and yes I will definitely get a new helmet.
Oh, I've managed to hit the deck while riding Conti Speed Rides. First time I wasn't paying attention and nicked a seam in the pavement that went from flush to an inch or so higher on one side. Boom. Sore ribs. Second time I was hit by a car, so I won't blame the tires. But generally the Speed Rides have been grippy, stable and comfy when the engine does his part.

Ditto, tire pressure. I like the Speed Rides at around 40 psi front, 50 rear, on most terrain. Very forgiving and don't feel sluggish.
canklecat is offline  
Old 08-06-19, 05:41 PM
  #63  
GeogreHudetz
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by literal trope View Post

It’s amusing that you have to blame your equipment rather than your demonstrated lack of. “sporting ability” and failure to adequately read the flat, mundane corner that you couldn’t ride around.
Witterings never once blamed his equipment. He merely asked for opinions if different equipment would have avoided the crash. A perfectly reasonable question & discussion, and FAR from assigning blame or discrediting his tires. You, on the other hand, are perfectly happy to attempt to discredit him, even though you were never there.

It's too bad because the discussion about technique is equally valid, but you tainted it for no apparent reason.
GeogreHudetz is offline  
Old 08-06-19, 06:31 PM
  #64  
Metieval
Senior Member
 
Metieval's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,347

Bikes: Road bike, Hybrid, Gravel, Drop bar SS, hard tail MTB

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 955 Post(s)
Liked 89 Times in 76 Posts
Originally Posted by literal trope View Post
Seriously? That's it?

I didn't need any more confirmation but this is truly the icing on the fail cake.
uncalled for man. enough is enough.
Metieval is offline  
Old 08-06-19, 08:20 PM
  #65  
ksryder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,276

Bikes: yes

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1041 Post(s)
Liked 284 Times in 169 Posts
Originally Posted by GeogreHudetz View Post
Witterings never once blamed his equipment. He merely asked for opinions if different equipment would have avoided the crash. A perfectly reasonable question & discussion, and FAR from assigning blame or discrediting his tires. You, on the other hand, are perfectly happy to attempt to discredit him, even though you were never there.

It's too bad because the discussion about technique is equally valid, but you tainted it for no apparent reason.
Well he's now banned so we've got that going for us.
ksryder is offline  
Likes For ksryder:
Old 08-09-19, 02:05 AM
  #66  
Witterings
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Witterings, West Sussex
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times in 18 Posts
I've been away for a couple of days so not been on here so have only just seen the posts of support (and he's gone in the meantime as well) .... just to say a big thank you for them!!!!!

I had actually written the most scathing of replies which I kept in drafts but in the end decided not to stoop to his level and post it ... maybe I should have

Thanks again
Witterings is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Equinox
Advocacy & Safety
23
10-24-19 06:00 AM
McMitchell
General Cycling Discussion
27
06-04-19 08:40 PM
chuckq4yoo
General Cycling Discussion
39
07-11-16 07:34 AM
InOmaha
Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg)
5
09-09-13 10:06 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.