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Making It Easier To Prosecute

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Making It Easier To Prosecute

Old 08-28-19, 05:25 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by JW Fas View Post
It's interesting how you underlined and emboldened that particular phrase, because states different infractions from crimes. Most moving violations are the former and only cross into being crimes at certain thresholds. For example, in my state (MO) failing to leave adequate distance when passing a cyclist is an infraction by itself but rises to a Class C misdemeanor if physical contact is made. There is a good reason traffic courts don't have juries and don't afford you the same entitlements as full criminal courts. The officer's testimony is worth its weight in gold in traffic court and only comes into question if you, the defendant, can produce evidence casting doubt on it. A cop can cite you for speeding and doesn't have to produce hard evidence of it. They could say they clocked you by riding alongside, and it's up to you to show that their testimony isn't sound, whereas in a full criminal court you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Because of this, there is no reason video evidence should not be admissible in traffic court, especially since it can't lie and is therefore a more reliable form of evidence than an officer's testimony.




This education mantra is not the ultimate panacea. It works to a degree, but the crux of the matter is most motorists simply do not adequately fear the consequences of bad driving habits. The fact that 25% of all crashes nowadays are caused by distracted driving (namely cell phone use) is indicative of that.
You seem to have missed the point. Your video has a problem with chain of custody. Who is issuing the summons to the operator? Does the video contain incontrovertible proof of the operator? The burden of proof rests on the complainant.
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Old 08-29-19, 08:45 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by sarhog View Post
What person? I was answering the question about a cop mailing you a ticket. There was no person mentioned in that scenario.
Last time I checked, the cop was a person. Someone watched that video and determined it shows a violation. That person would testify as to the origin of the video and its authenticity, and to what is observed on the video. The video would then be entered as an exhibit. The judge would then view the video.

Are you under the impression that you can't prosecute a burglar if they're identified only by security cam evidence? It's exactly the same thing.

I've taught con law. You're not even in the neighborhood of a confrontation clause violation.
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Old 08-29-19, 08:51 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam View Post
You seem to have missed the point. Your video has a problem with chain of custody. Who is issuing the summons to the operator? Does the video contain incontrovertible proof of the operator? The burden of proof rests on the complainant.
Chain of custody isn't a real issue here--it's just like any other security camera. You show it's a closed system and that the data on it are reliable. No question you want to get the driver's face in the video. That part can be tricky, but there are plenty of electronic speed traps that manage it.
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Old 08-29-19, 09:53 AM
  #29  
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It's not a surprise that a stationary high speed camera is capable of capturing a still of a driver. Here in Ohio, however, a speed camera violation is not the same as a speeding ticket, and if you want to argue one you don't get to see a judge either (it's an expensive parking ticket). It was also challenged on 6th amendment grounds, which is probably why its not even an infraction.

It doesn't address the issue of law enforcement continuing to use the limited resources provided to tackle the more serious violations. Make the argument that in three average years, more Americans will die on the roads and highways than have ever been injured or died in combat, and you might be able to convince policymakers that traffic law enforcement is a priority.
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Old 08-29-19, 07:52 PM
  #30  
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In the US: The police do not prosecute. The courts do. Law enforcement cite violations based on evidence which must be proven in a trial.
Furthermore, you are asking a question that has differing answers in different countries.


Remember that the OP is not in the United States and that this site has members worldwide.

This might help prevent some threads from getting out of hand.

If you have questions about the legal system this place likely isn't your source for an answer.
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Old 08-29-19, 08:27 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
Remember that the OP is not in the United States and that this site has members worldwide.
Check again, please.

Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
If you have questions about the legal system this place likely isn't your source for an answer.
SO IT IS FOUND AND ORDERED.

<gavel bangs>
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Old 08-29-19, 08:54 PM
  #32  
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I'm glad I've been able to spend most of my life in a world where we weren't on camera at all times to capture any violations and where citizens weren't running around trying to prosecute each other.
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Old 08-29-19, 10:02 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
I'm glad I've been able to spend most of my life in a world where we weren't on camera at all times to capture any violations and where citizens weren't running around trying to prosecute each other.
If someone close to you got killed by a texting driver who could've been cited beforehand based on a citizen's independent video (and thus deterred from doing that again), I'm pretty sure you'd be singing a different tune. It's well established that the vast majority of crashes are caused by human error, and a huge chunk of these result from moving violations that are considered infractions and not misdemeanors or felonies. We have every opportunity to deter the most easily preventable causes of injury and death, but for some reason you think we shouldn't.
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Old 08-29-19, 10:37 PM
  #34  
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Not in US? Thought there was a post saying was in MO.

Interesting the tack this thread has taken. All an academic time filler.
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Old 08-30-19, 10:06 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
In the US: The police do not prosecute. The courts do. Law enforcement cite violations based on evidence which must be proven in a trial.
Furthermore, you are asking a question that has differing answers in different countries.
Remember that the OP is not in the United States and that this site has members worldwide.
This might help prevent some threads from getting out of hand.
If you have questions about the legal system this place likely isn't your source for an answer.
The court's don't prosecute, they try the case. The prosecutor prosecutes--he/she brings the case to the court.

Actually, in the state I practice in, it's a bit of an oddity, but the police actually do the prosecution of misdemeanors and traffic offenses. It's a very weird experience arguing in a courtroom with a guy wearing a sidearm. When I describe this to lawyers from other states, they're absolutely amazed.
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Old 09-01-19, 08:29 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam View Post
Check again, please.
You've already paid.

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Old 09-01-19, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawkowl2 View Post
Not in US? Thought there was a post saying was in MO.

Interesting the tack this thread has taken. All an academic time filler.
I'm so confused!



But why all this talk about the UK? We stopped paying their rent in 1776 and completed settling the deal in 1812.

There should be a Schwinn in this thread.
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Old 09-01-19, 09:47 PM
  #38  
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Someone sideswiped a cyclist a few years back in Berkeley, CA, and the video got the driver convicted.
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