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Bike crash at Bancroft and Canal trail crossing

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Bike crash at Bancroft and Canal trail crossing

Old 08-23-19, 06:07 PM
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Joe Bikerider
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Bike crash at Bancroft and Canal trail crossing

In Walnut Creek, ca there is a report today about a "likely" fatal crash at the intersection between the Contra Costa Canal trail and Bancroft Road. This is a major route for both type of vehicles. Cyclists are going east/west along that pretty busy MUP and cars are going north/south along Bancroft. I went through that intersection earlier in the day. It is two lanes on each side of the road and a pretty wide intermediate planted areaa.. I was annoyed to see a cyclist not wait for the lights and just jumped through the first two lanes and then wait in the middle and the jump the rest of the way when it was clear. But who an I to say? This collision came along later and was reported here.


ALERT: Bancroft Rd. Closed Near Black Bear Diner In Walnut Creek Due To Collision ?claycord CLAYCORD.com


Very sad. I have no idea who was doing what at that intersection and in fact I have seen bad behavior from all sides. I've always considered this a pretty safe crossing. But this will make me think twice, that's for sure. We will see what further reports are. That's me in my rational side. This is my other side: I'm sick of being put in danger by these cars. And I think it's getting worse. Like this example of a normally safe intersection is now something I am afraid of.
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Old 08-23-19, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by render ranger View Post
Why were you annoyed by what another cyclist did? How did their action affect you in any way?
do you know how often people see the actions of 1 cyclist and say "all cyclist suck"

how often do you think that when a motorist does something stupid ? well I do.. but in general it does not work that way
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Old 08-24-19, 06:23 AM
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Real August 23, 2019 at 1:41 PM

I was one of the first on scene, guy in his 20’s was hit while crossing the cross walk on his bike, no helmet. Head smashed the windshield, major bleeding. Got on the ground to give cpr but he was breathing thankfully, a man was trying to stop the bleeding while we gave the poor guy shade from the 90 degree weather on the pavement. Fire truck was repsponding to another call so they stopped at the accident first because of priority. Driver was distraught and stayed on scene. Hope he makes it, hard to watch.
S Gail Adam August 23, 2019 at 1:41 PM
The accident on Bancroft in front of Black Bear In Walnut Creek at the Iron Horse Trail crosswalk. The bicyclist was traveling at high speed and the sedan was going pretty fast. The bicycle flew about 50-60 feet. Not sure if the cyclist is alive or who had the right of way.
It's curious that they have a red/green signal light for trail users. I reckon that the planners thought that the standard pedestrian type signals were not enough? With that middle island, I don't see an issue with partial crossing against the light, but I would not do it unless there were no oncoming vehicles within 100 yards. Speed limit along that stretch appears to be 40 mph so that means that traffic could be 50+. This is another reason to cross against the light if no motor traffic is in sight. Too many motorists run through red lights for me to be comfortable with any traffic signal.
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Old 08-24-19, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by render ranger View Post
Why were you annoyed by what another cyclist did? How did their action affect you in any way?
Another cyclist or driver making unexpected manouvers adds complcation to my decision making process. Thatís how it effects me. I think that if all the acters involved, cyclists and drivers are predicable then we are all safer.
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Old 08-25-19, 04:55 PM
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You as a cyclist who have crossed safely was one thing, just an idiot trying to get away with something and claiming itís helping all of us. Iíve seen a rider crash hard doing a very similar trick crossing Oak Grove road. It did matter to me since I stopped to help him out. But I guess you are better than that? Are you really so selfish that anything that gets you ahead is good for everyone? Time to grow up dude.
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Old 08-25-19, 07:23 PM
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This is what you said.

For the record, I have rarely used the signal there and have crossed it dozens of times over the years. When traffic opens up I move to the protected middle and then cross when traffic opens up on the other side. Win-win. I get through quicker and the folks that are driving aren't held up.

win win to who? You getting away with your trick. And messing things up for all of us.

Bye
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Old 08-25-19, 07:46 PM
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Because your ďsafeĒ crosing will eventually cause an accident like the one last friday that started this discusion. Sure you may get away with it for years, but itís still not safe to jump the lights and you should stop.
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Old 08-25-19, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by render ranger View Post
Win-win. I get through quicker and the folks that are driving aren't held up.
Sounds like the courteous thing to do. I find drivers appreciate it when you do what you can to keep things moving.
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Old 08-26-19, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by render ranger View Post
It's really simple. - win for me because I get to continue my ride without interruption and win for the motorists because I didn't trigger the signal to induce a red light and slow them down/interrupt their drive. I never ever claimed that I was "helping all of us" as you have falsely claimed.

I answered your question, do you have the courage to answer the simple question which you have avoided multiple times? I hope so!

Here is is again: Why were you annoyed by what the cyclist(who safely crossed the intersection) did?
Perhaps you missed it, but the OP answered your question in post #6 .
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Old 08-26-19, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
Perhaps you missed it, but the OP answered your question in post #6 .
If you consider an extremely vague answer to be an answer to a very specific question. What specific decision-making was affected by a routine jump to a safety island in the face of zero traffic?
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Old 08-26-19, 09:16 AM
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Obtl
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Old 08-26-19, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
If you consider an extremely vague answer to be an answer to a very specific question. What specific decision-making was affected by a routine jump to a safety island in the face of zero traffic?
The response didn't seem vague at all to me. The answer was because it complicates the OP's decision making process.

Edited to add that the intersection doesn't look terrible to me. I can't personally see how a rider stopped in the middle would add much complication.

I don't understand the goading of the OP with questions like "Why are you afraid to answer?" Especially since the question had already been answered.
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Old 08-26-19, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
The response didn't seem vague at all to me. The answer was because it complicates the OP's decision making process.

Edited to add that the intersection doesn't look terrible to me. I can't personally see how a rider stopped in the middle would add much complication.
Your edited to add effectively negates the assertion that the response wasn't vague. I can't personally see it either.
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Old 08-26-19, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by render ranger View Post
Someone safely crossing the intersection in front of me while I wait for the signal to change to green doesn't affect me nor my decision making process.

So the question remains, why did a rider safely crossing in front of the OP annoy him?

If something as commonplace as that annoys someone then they must spend their entire ride being annoyed by pedestrians, roller bladers, dog walkers, electric wheel chairs, etc. because all of those things "complicates the OP's decision making process."
The answer is because you ≠ the OP. The OP's estimation of what's safe is obviously different than yours. The fact that this annoys you is pretty much the same as the fact that someone stopping in the middle annoys the OP.
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Old 08-26-19, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Your edited to add effectively negates the assertion that the response wasn't vague. I can't personally see it either.
No, it doesn't. The OP clearly answered the question. Just because we don't necessarily agree with the OP's opinion, doesn't mean he didn't offer one.
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Old 08-26-19, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
No, it doesn't. The OP clearly answered the question. Just because we don't necessarily agree with the OP's opinion, doesn't mean he didn't offer one.
It's not a matter of agree or disagree, it's that neither you nor I can see how this supposedly clear answer relates to the actual situation he described.

In that sense, "I hate potatoes" would also be a clear answer.
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Old 08-26-19, 11:43 AM
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Here is the map.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9269...7i13312!8i6656

Pretty good visibility once one is in the intersection, but potentially obscured as one approaches.

I'd probably wait for the light assuming it could be triggered. But, I'm less concerned about the cyclists that stop, look, and go, rather than the ones that would just shoot across without looking.

Yesterday evening I was driving a bit. On the cross-street where I was... left turn turned green. Then straight through turned green about a second later. I was just about ready to move when a BMX rider shot across. No lights. No warning. Riding on sidewalk against traffic. And, crossing against red lights and Do Not Walk. He just shot out of nowhere, and almost got hit by the car making a left on green. A second or two later, and I would have been moving.
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Old 08-26-19, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by render ranger View Post
You're mistaken once again.

The OP's estimation of what is safe does not annoy me. Rather, it amuses me (although his irrational fear also induces a twinge of pity).
From my point of view you seemed annoyed, not amused.
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Old 08-26-19, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
It's not a matter of agree or disagree, it's that neither you nor I can see how this supposedly clear answer relates to the actual situation he described.

In that sense, "I hate potatoes" would also be a clear answer.
Except the OP didn't mention potatoes.

I see exactly how the answer relates. The OP feels his decision making process is complicated when he sees someone stopped in the middle. You or I or @render ranger apparently would not find complication in the situation, but that doesn't mean the OP doesn't.

My point is, if you disagree, responding "I disagree" or "you're wrong" or "get more riding skills" makes perfect sense. Responding "Why are you afraid to answer the question?" is just...weird.
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Old 08-26-19, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
Except the OP didn't mention potatoes.

I see exactly how the answer relates. The OP feels his decision making process is complicated when he sees someone stopped in the middle. You or I or @render ranger apparently would not find complication in the situation, but that doesn't mean the OP doesn't.

My point is, if you disagree, responding "I disagree" or "you're wrong" or "get more riding skills" makes perfect sense. Responding "Why are you afraid to answer the question?" is just...weird.
Frankly, I thought the whole exchange was a bit off on both sides, but I'll just say my piece on why I thought it's actually an interesting and really unanswered question. The bigger argument is whether we should, as cyclists, obey lights and signs even when doing so offers us no safety benefit and endangers no one else. This is a pretty clear case of a harmless rule break, so I don't think there's any harm in asking how this "complicates" OP's decision making, and I do find it strange that OP won't explain how it does.

We could probably do a whole semester's worth of an undergraduate logic seminar on our different interpretations of the words "vague" and "clear", but I'm going to pass on another round of that and just say I don't get what OP's complaint is really about because "it complicates my thought process" clarifies absolutely nothing.
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Old 08-26-19, 02:18 PM
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Did anybody figure out the cause of the accident mentioned by the OP.

  1. Either the car or the bicycle ran a red light.
  2. Either car or bicycle was late crossing or had a light change (stale yellow)
  3. Either car or bicycle jumped the light (light timing?)
  4. Intoxicants?
  5. Electronic devices (bike or car)
Mid-Block traffic signals are exceptionally problematic. I'm not sure how vehicles would interpret that light. However, lights don't impart a magical protective shield around the cyclist.

So, crossing without traffic likely is as safe as crossing with a light before all cross traffic has stopped.

Ohhh... Look at what Google Captured!!!



One thing, if one manages to get stuck in the island, there may not be any way to trigger the light to change again.
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Old 08-26-19, 02:20 PM
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Can we get a row of retractable steel bollards that raise every time the light turns red?
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Old 08-26-19, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
The bigger argument is whether we should, as cyclists, obey lights and signs even when doing so offers us no safety benefit and endangers no one else.
To everything else you wrote, I'll say...fair enough.

To the above quoted question, for me, the answer is no. The one that illustrates this most for me is sitting alone in a residential 4-lane road at a red light that's traffic controlled. One that won't change until something larger than a motorcycle pulls up. A cyclist is a sitting duck. I just won't do it unless I have no choice because of crossing traffic.

For the posted intersection...yeah, I'd almost certainly stop in the middle if I could safely only cross half way. I have several intersection like that one (but less spacious) on one of the routes I ride a few times a week. Sometimes I click the button, sometimes I don't, but if it's clear, I'm going. If there's a place to stop in the middle and I can get there safely, that's what I generally do. I will say if there's a pedestrian or cyclist stranded in the middle, that would...wait for it...complicate my decision.
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Old 08-26-19, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by render ranger View Post
Now explain why that stranded person would annoy someone because they are "complicating their decision," when they have no intention of crossing against the light - because they always hit the button and wait before crossing.
It would be hard to said, not being the OP. And to be honest, I no longer care. As I stated, I simply didn't understand why you were telling the OP he was "afraid to answer your question" when he had actually already answered it twice. That seemed as illogical to me as his answer seemed to you.
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Old 08-26-19, 07:34 PM
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The WC police have assigned an incident number and will have the report posted on their site soon. Itís 19-27285. That will hopefully answer some questions.
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