mkeller234

I am slowly rebuilding my new to me Melton. The frame is marked with a Reynolds 531 sticker, just like my old Melton.

The seat post was unmarked, so I decided to check the size. 26.64mm.... hmm, that can’t be right. Should be 27.2 for 531...

I decide to check the frame. 26.96mm. What the heck?!? That was even with applying slight force to the jaws of the calipers. I figure the tube has been deformed, but a close inspection of the slot shows that it’s nice a parallel.

Is this normal? Should I expect these items to measure at exactly 27.2?

For what it’s worth, I used decent calipers, not the harbor freight variety.

mkeller234

Photos:

PilotFishBob 

Hmm. My Motobecane Grand Record has 531 tubing and a 26.6 seatpost - but that's French for you. No idea on this one. The decal certainly looks legit.

Last ride 76 

Certainly possible, without overturning established cannon.

TenGrainBread 

Maybe he got his hands on a metric 531 tubeset. Or perhaps it's a thicker touring tubeset. My 531ST bike has a 26.6 seat tube. Measure the OD of the seat tube.

rhm

27.0 wouldn't be unusual at all. Heat distorts steel. Most builders will ream a tube to make sure a standard size post fits. A 27.0 may fit just fine as is (sizing is not as precise as the numbers suggest).

dddd

I would try installing a 27.0mm seatpost, which may fit if this is a case of a 26.8mm post having been tightened in good an hard.

noobinsf 

My ‘72 Grand Record takes a 26.4 seat post.

My Mercian King of Mercia Touring takes a 27.0. I wrote to Mercian to confirm, and they said that in 1983, the touring frames were being reamed to 27.0, while the racing frames were reamed to 27.2.

These obviously don’t give you anything definitive about your frame, but hopefully they’re useful data points.

Spaghetti Legs 

FWIW I’ve always struggled to get accurate seat tube measurements using calipers. One day, oh yes, one day conical seat tube gauge, you will be mine.
Also, it seems fairly clear that the seat post is too small and if cinched down into that seat tube, all bets are off to what will work in there as is. I’m with the others in that I’d try to get a 27.0 in there.

rustystrings61 

Weird outlier data point - The c.1969 Mercian Olympic that Mike Melton repaired c.1972-ish while associated with Joe Azar's shop in Columbia SC was done with Vitus 971 metric tubing for the top and down tubes he replaced. Do we have any other examples of his using metric tubing?

TenGrainBread 

Like I said earlier, if we want to confirm or rule out the use of metric tubing in this case, simply measuring the outer diameter of the seat tube should suffice. A metric (French) seat tube will have an OD of 28.0mm. An English will have an OD of 28.6.

juvela

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Some builders will employ a plain gauge seat tube for reasons of strength/rigidity depending upon the intended application and size of envisioned rider.

This might be what you have here...


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unterhausen

first thing I would do is measure the OD of the seat tube somewhere in the middle. It would be 28.6 plus something for the paint. I would also measuring the inside from front to back.

The best tool for this job is a Starrett 229b or similar telescoping hole gauge. It takes a bit of care to get a good reading, but a good reading is extremely difficult with a caliper.

Doug Fattic 

Melton used all kinds of tubing making all kinds of frames. When he was located in Delaware, Ohio (above Columbus, Ohio) his operation went belly up in the early 80's and I drove over a couple of times to pick over equipment and frame materials. I've still got some of it around. He was into tandems and aero time trail bikes. It was a several man operation. It was in the era when fixtures weren't commercially available and he cobbled together various jigs to speed up the process. I think I sold his main triangle fixtures to Keith Andersson. Later he went to work making the Huffy racing bikes near Dayton, Ohio used by our national team.

Somewhere in my shed is an aluminum jig plate fixture with stand off aero tube holders to make time trial frames. And against the wall by my spray booth is some big sheets of Aluminum plate that I got from him that he never got a chance to make fixtures out of. Making fixtures out of a big aluminum plate went out of fashion but I've got the plates I'll sell at scrap prices if someone is interested.

mkeller234

Thank you everyone for the thoughtful responses... I haven’t checked in much since my post, so it’s surprising to see all the feedback.

I’m going to try what @hazetguy said and measure the OD of the tube.

mkeller234

Doug, thank you for sharing this story. There isn’t much information online about his Delaware OH shop. So first hand accounts are fascinating. Did you know Mike personally? I was excited to buy this one since it’s American made, and even Ohio made since I live in Canton Ohio.

Any idea how many bikes he was producing?

mkeller234

I looked at the Starrett gauge. I can see why it’s a more effective tool for the job.

mkeller234

OD is 28.72. Of course, that is measured with my harbor freight calipers.

P!N20

My Columbus SLX Pinarello came with a seatpost marked 27.2 and I never really thought to question it. Recently when I went to swap out the seatpost, my new to me 27.2 post didn’t fit. Measured the old post and it was actually 27.1.

Which made me wonder: how is my SLX seat tube 27.1 ID? How is a 27.2 stamped seatpost actually 27.1? For the latter, it may have been sanded down some time in its life, but it didn’t appear to be. And there was NO WAY a 27.2 post was going to fit.

rootboy 

And here's one for a very fair price

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Starrett-Te...53.m1438.l2649

mkeller234

Awesome! Thanks for the heads up, it’s on it’s way now 😎

rootboy 

I almost bought it myself. Even though I have one already. Look up a brief tutorial on how to use that gizmo, MK.
As was said, there's a bit of a trick to it to get an accurate reading, but not too difficult. Surely these things are the most
accurate of the methods one can use for a seat tube ID, and allow you to measure down an inch or so, where the reading will
be most true, as opposed to up near the pinch zone.

mkeller234

I bought a Mt Fuji that I could have used this on too. It had a junky steel post that was way too small. Thanks again for the tip.

rootboy 

This vid is as good as any:

Doug Fattic 

I did not know Mike personally. He was one of the very 1st modern American builders that started right after the bike boom. According to Classic Rendezvous he learned in Japan in 1970 while in the service. I don't know how many frames were made in Delaware Ohio. He had attempted to get big like Serotta. There were 3 partners as I recall and they hired hourly workers to actually make the frames. Their bankruptcy is a good example of the problems of starting a business. They had bought a number of expensive specialized machine tools but that didn't increase their efficiency enough so that hourly wage earners could make frames fast enough for the partners to make a profit. At that time to be successful in the high end market you either had to emphasize quality or price. Hourly wage earners are unlikely to file as nicely or take as much time as a one person pro so they couldn't compete on quality. And they can make costly mistakes without realizing it. For example Melton made tandems and I saw that someone had mitered a couple dozen top tubes way too short creating a loss in both time and materials. So it was difficult to sell cheap enough to pay for all the overhead and debt from machines and then sell wholesale through bike shops.

When I went to Delaware to see what I could buy after the bank called in their loan, I dealt with the 3rd partner who had arraigned with his banker father-in-law to get the money to start the business. He was a bike enthusiast but didn't have a background in frame making or any kind of manufacturing. It was very sad for him. Mike had long left town and this young guy had to deal with the mess left behind. I imagine Thanksgiving dinner with her family might have been awkward. I think I still have some Melton decals I took in case someone needed a repaint but I have never used them. I also took home 50 pounds of C-04 bronze brazing rod that I used for years until I finally ran out.

I'm sure you know that Mike Melton died way too young a few years ago. The person that would know a lot more is Jack at Franklin frames. He lives in that area somewhere. I remember he was also there picking over the remains while I was there that day in 1983.