Trek Brings Back the Belt Drive
#26
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You completely missed the point of what I was trying to say. Obviously they make internal hubs. I already mentioned that. Belts do not shift in a traditional sense, and certainly don't shift better than chains. Chains are more versatile. I've ridden one of those CV belt bikes. They're fun, but the tension in the shifter makes it so that you generally only stop on a few different points anyway. It's very hard to make very tiny adjustments.
Oh and "small" and "light" are relative. That thing probably weighs a ton, as most internal hubs do.
Oh and "small" and "light" are relative. That thing probably weighs a ton, as most internal hubs do.
I got your point, doesn't seem you got mine. The technology is already here, it is just a matter of refinement. Back 70 the world insisted the precise Swiss movement watch would never be replaced. While they have not disappeared, they virtually have.
A small light centrifugal CVT system analogous to what is used on snowmobiles, where the infinitely variable shifting is at the belt, not internal to the hub, is quite possible. And the chain may never go totally away, the technology to replace it with a belt is there. It depends more on whether some big company decides to pursue it or not.
#27
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I saw these on the Trek dealer website but no add'l info on the TAB belt drive system. Never heard of them before. Anyone?
NDS cranks are lined up with the chainstays (beltstays?) and seat tube respectively, on the Trek and BMC. If they didn't do that, people would be criticizing them for not lining the cranks up in promo photos...
NDS cranks are lined up with the chainstays (beltstays?) and seat tube respectively, on the Trek and BMC. If they didn't do that, people would be criticizing them for not lining the cranks up in promo photos...
#28
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Originally Posted by mconlon
NDS cranks are lined up with the chainstays (beltstays?) and seat tube respectively, on the Trek and BMC.
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What is so wrong with a conventional chain on a single speed? As long as the chain line is good, they last forever. And if you don't like the mess of lubing, you can wax.
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Is it just me or does anyone else see those fenders and question how dry your feet will not be when it is wet? Seriously the mudflap doesn't even reach the pedals at the 3/9'o'clock positions. They also don't look adequately braced for stiffness either...unless they're something other than cheap plastic.
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I got your point, doesn't seem you got mine. The technology is already here, it is just a matter of refinement. Back 70 the world insisted the precise Swiss movement watch would never be replaced. While they have not disappeared, they virtually have.
A small light centrifugal CVT system analogous to what is used on snowmobiles, where the infinitely variable shifting is at the belt, not internal to the hub, is quite possible. And the chain may never go totally away, the technology to replace it with a belt is there. It depends more on whether some big company decides to pursue it or not.
A small light centrifugal CVT system analogous to what is used on snowmobiles, where the infinitely variable shifting is at the belt, not internal to the hub, is quite possible. And the chain may never go totally away, the technology to replace it with a belt is there. It depends more on whether some big company decides to pursue it or not.
High-end watches are more popular than ever, and numerous celebrities (Eric Clapton, John Mayer, Charlie Sheen, etc.) are some of the more visible examples of people who not only wear them but collect them as well...
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#32
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A disadvantage of the chain is simply that it gets covered with black gunk. I'd be happy to live without that. I haven't tried wax, but I don't see how it would eliminate the black gunk issue.
With that said, I haven't felt compelled to switch from a chain. Maybe when I know that there's a standard that will still be around in 30+ years, which is not how the bike industry works these days.
#34
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As art, not as timepieces. Anyone who cares about knowing what time it is has a quartz watch or network synced clock.
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Chains wear out by "stretching" which is a misnomer for a gradual lengthening due to internal wear. One is supposed to check a chain for stretch periodically, and replace when needed.
A disadvantage of the chain is simply that it gets covered with black gunk. I'd be happy to live without that. I haven't tried wax, but I don't see how it would eliminate the black gunk issue.
With that said, I haven't felt compelled to switch from a chain. Maybe when I know that there's a standard that will still be around in 30+ years, which is not how the bike industry works these days.
A disadvantage of the chain is simply that it gets covered with black gunk. I'd be happy to live without that. I haven't tried wax, but I don't see how it would eliminate the black gunk issue.
With that said, I haven't felt compelled to switch from a chain. Maybe when I know that there's a standard that will still be around in 30+ years, which is not how the bike industry works these days.
Sure Gates claims "LOL it is polyurethane and sunlight will never damage it!"...but reality check- I coated in the Spring with 4 coats of good quality UV rated boat-poly, and it needs sanded and coated again because the summer sun killed it in only 4 months.
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How did a belt drive bike photo start off a chain lube thread?
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#38
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#39
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However, your other comments are sound.
#41
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#42
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but thats not coming on the Trek bike , at the cost its selling for.. I expect TAB sells to the factory that built them, for a Lot Less.
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All Harley-Davidson motorcycles are fitted with Gates final drive belts, reinforced with either Kevlar or carbon fiber strands. They last a minimum of 100,000 miles unless damaged. H-D has been either experimenting with or producing belt drive motorcycles since 1975. The lighter Sportster model requires 10 Horsepower go 60 mph on a level road, the Bigger touring models require 12.8. These numbers point out just how weak we humans are. --- Even the rather small belts Gates fits to bicycles are, well -- overkill.
I would love to have a belt-drive bicycle. I'm really very good at chain maintenance but I'd rather not have to do it. I have a bike with an eight speed (Shimano Nexus) IGH. I've fitted the Peterson two-speed drive and, thus, have sixteen speeds. I'd add the Shimano eleven speed, if I could afford it.
Disc brakes, electric shifting, full suspension, IGH hubs, belt drives, etc. are current or even old technology. Get used to them; they are here to stay.
Joe
I would love to have a belt-drive bicycle. I'm really very good at chain maintenance but I'd rather not have to do it. I have a bike with an eight speed (Shimano Nexus) IGH. I've fitted the Peterson two-speed drive and, thus, have sixteen speeds. I'd add the Shimano eleven speed, if I could afford it.
Disc brakes, electric shifting, full suspension, IGH hubs, belt drives, etc. are current or even old technology. Get used to them; they are here to stay.
Joe
#45
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How about KTM's 18 speed gear box bike with a belt drive Eurobike 2014: Will The Pinion P1.18 Be Rohloff's First Serious Competitor?
#46
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Of course there are advantages to the belt drive. It's long lasting, doesn't need lubed or cleaned, doesn't wear on the sprockets like a badly "stretched" chain will, is more efficient at high wattages, and is quiet!
The minute spent adding oil every year seems like a small price to pay for the advantages of a chain - ability to use with essentially any frame, easy to change ring/cog sizes by adding/removing a few links, ready availability of replacements, etc.
Seems like many of the comparisons that appear to favor belts do so by comparing them to the low-life and higher maintenance requirements of chains used with derailleur systems. That's not a fair comparison since the belt can't be used in those cases. Chains for single speed (or IGH) systems last much longer with less maintenance required and that should be the standard for comparison.
Last edited by prathmann; 09-19-15 at 09:36 PM.
#47
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All Harley-Davidson motorcycles are fitted with Gates final drive belts, reinforced with either Kevlar or carbon fiber strands. They last a minimum of 100,000 miles unless damaged. H-D has been either experimenting with or producing belt drive motorcycles since 1975. The lighter Sportster model requires 10 Horsepower go 60 mph on a level road, the Bigger touring models require 12.8. These numbers point out just how weak we humans are. --- Even the rather small belts Gates fits to bicycles are, well -- overkill.
I would love to have a belt-drive bicycle. I'm really very good at chain maintenance but I'd rather not have to do it. I have a bike with an eight speed (Shimano Nexus) IGH. I've fitted the Peterson two-speed drive and, thus, have sixteen speeds. I'd add the Shimano eleven speed, if I could afford it.
Disc brakes, electric shifting, full suspension, IGH hubs, belt drives, etc. are current or even old technology. Get used to them; they are here to stay.
Joe
I would love to have a belt-drive bicycle. I'm really very good at chain maintenance but I'd rather not have to do it. I have a bike with an eight speed (Shimano Nexus) IGH. I've fitted the Peterson two-speed drive and, thus, have sixteen speeds. I'd add the Shimano eleven speed, if I could afford it.
Disc brakes, electric shifting, full suspension, IGH hubs, belt drives, etc. are current or even old technology. Get used to them; they are here to stay.
Joe
#48
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Are you comparing this to a chain used with a derailleur system or a single-speed (or IGH) setup? The only single-speed chain that I have is about 30 years old with 35000 miles on it, has never been cleaned, gets lubed once or twice a year, and doesn't wear the sprockets since it's never shown significant "stretch." As for the efficiency, even your source shows that chains are more efficient than the current belts that require a preload and that the hypothetical belt without a preload is still less efficient until you get over 208W. I expect that most of my cycling time will be spent well under that 208 W cross-over mark.
The minute spent adding oil every year seems like a small price to pay for the advantages of a chain - ability to use with essentially any frame, easy to change ring/cog sizes by adding/removing a few links, ready availability of replacements, etc.
Seems like many of the comparisons that appear to favor belts do so by comparing them to the low-life and higher maintenance requirements of chains used with derailleur systems. That's not a fair comparison since the belt can't be used in those cases. Chains for single speed (or IGH) systems last much longer with less maintenance required and that should be the standard for comparison.
The minute spent adding oil every year seems like a small price to pay for the advantages of a chain - ability to use with essentially any frame, easy to change ring/cog sizes by adding/removing a few links, ready availability of replacements, etc.
Seems like many of the comparisons that appear to favor belts do so by comparing them to the low-life and higher maintenance requirements of chains used with derailleur systems. That's not a fair comparison since the belt can't be used in those cases. Chains for single speed (or IGH) systems last much longer with less maintenance required and that should be the standard for comparison.
I can tell you from experience that chains do not do very well.
#49
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... or the Blower belt on a nitro-methane/top fuel dragster..
width is just 1 difference, of many..
width is just 1 difference, of many..
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Originally Posted by tjspiel18179231
I can tell you from experience that chains do not do very well.